- 19,199
- 28,262
Well Aaroniero was shaded after the hole was formed, which I argued meant he wasn't illuminated, but staff think otherwise.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
- 934
- 327
- Thread starter
- #1,122
i really dont want to discuss that topic again but those were already debunked
when he looked back there was already a hole in the wall so he wouldve reacted to the light entering, and it wasnt due to him burning as theres nothing supporting him burning as he would scream as seen when light hit him later, also it would go against the entire thing rukia did (which was trapping him so he wont dodge as she believes he is fast enough to dodge as she thought light didnt hit him the first time)
- 366
- 91
- 934
- 327
- Thread starter
- #1,125
- 366
- 91
What?
I think he heard the wall, turned and saw the light, then jumped.
The last panel in the page I posted is him being covered in the light from that.
Like this
- 8,427
- 3,144
@Hasch
The sound of the wall breaking is what made him turn around, but we then see a hole in the wall (to the point where the light from outside can be seen, which means it is pouring into the room), it then shows a close up of his eye looking shocked (showing that he is reacting to the light from outside) that is shaded which shows us the light from the wall hasn't reached him yet, and then it shows him speed out of the way before we see Rukia illuminated in light, and then finally, it shows him in a shaded part of the room that isn't burned at all, showing us he wasn't touched by the sunlight - as being touched by sunlight is what reveals his true form, the anime contradicting this doesn't matter - the manga is the primary source material and doesn't show this.
It's like the most blatant speed feat in the series, and it so painfully obvious to anyone who has any understanding of paneling whatsoever. Anyone who disagrees with this feat doesn't know how manga paneling works (Which would be the wall, then the close up of his eye, then the panel of him outrunning the light, then the panel of him phasing back into existence, then the panel of Rukia saying 'What?', and finally the panel of Rukia saying "Why is he running?') and any other conclusions besides the one I just mentioned don't make sense with what is shown on panel.
The sound of the wall breaking is what made him turn around, but we then see a hole in the wall (to the point where the light from outside can be seen, which means it is pouring into the room), it then shows a close up of his eye looking shocked (showing that he is reacting to the light from outside) that is shaded which shows us the light from the wall hasn't reached him yet, and then it shows him speed out of the way before we see Rukia illuminated in light, and then finally, it shows him in a shaded part of the room that isn't burned at all, showing us he wasn't touched by the sunlight - as being touched by sunlight is what reveals his true form, the anime contradicting this doesn't matter - the manga is the primary source material and doesn't show this.
It's like the most blatant speed feat in the series, and it so painfully obvious to anyone who has any understanding of paneling whatsoever. Anyone who disagrees with this feat doesn't know how manga paneling works (Which would be the wall, then the close up of his eye, then the panel of him outrunning the light, then the panel of him phasing back into existence, then the panel of Rukia saying 'What?', and finally the panel of Rukia saying "Why is he running?') and any other conclusions besides the one I just mentioned don't make sense with what is shown on panel.
Last edited:
- 8,427
- 3,144
What databook is this?
And what? Databooks are some of the most dubious sources that exist.
It's far more likely that the databook writer just parroted what's in the manga, then assuming that he possesses the innate knowledge that what Gin was saying is true.
And Gin directly told Aizen that his sword doesn't expand at the speed that he said it did, why would Gin randomly tell Ichigo the true speed of his Bankai when he lied to everyone else, including Aizen, who was right there and had the potential of overhearing him, right before he was about to betray Aizen after years of being an undercover spy. This doesn't any sense and makes numerous extra assumptions to work.
- 934
- 327
- Thread starter
- #1,129
the anime is flawed i went over this in the other thread as to why it cant be used they had aaronierro exposed to light longer here and he didnt scream while he was exposed to it for shorter period of time later yet he screamed and if he was covered in light it would contradict everything rukia did
- 366
- 91
But shading can't be used to know what is in the light, Aaroniero's face has no shading even before there's any hole in the wall, then Rukia has shading despite being covered by light.
That last panel certainly looks like Aaroniero covered in light.
No, he was pined in the light the second time and had time to turn around and scream for a while before loosing his disguise, the first time he wasn't in the light for even a second and his collar thing also helped.
- 8,427
- 3,144
Do you understand this character at all? If Aaroniero is in sunlight, then his true form is revealed, he wouldn't still look like Kaien and he would be in pain from Kaien's mask being burned off him - he CAN'T be in sunlight.
Just because there is a white background, doesn't mean that he is in light. 50% of Kubo's manga have white backgrounds. It's for emphasis on the character.
Also, the shading, the darkened area around Aaroniero's face, and the fact that he can't be in sunlight is proof enough that the light hasn't, in fact, touched him yet, that he is reacting to it and dodging it.
Arguing against this is literally arguing against the narrative itself. You are literally saying that the sunlight touched Aaroniero and it did nothing to him there but does later when he is directly shown to be touched by sunlight because what? Reasons?
Do you see how this doesn't make sense?
- 366
- 91
He didn't instantly stop looking like Kaien when bathed in sunlight, so the first time he just wasn't on the light long enough.
- 8,170
- 2,204
If I recall the arguments for that feat regarding the light hitting him, the staff said that hitting him with sunlight doesn’t automatically remove his disguise but that he has to be under the influence of sunlight for a couple of seconds before he loses his disguise.
- 934
- 327
- Thread starter
- #1,134
if you are saying that based on the anime
for the first time light entered i used a stopwatch
and from the time light hit aaronierro's face to when he jumped i got around 1.7 seconds
and for the second time
from the time that the anime showed light entering the room to when aaronierro screamed i got around 1.5 seconds
so the anime contradicts itself and isnt accurate as i said
either way rukia had no way of knowing if he has to be exposed to light long enough or not she believed he is fast enough to dodge and her entire thing was making aaronierro get exposed to light meaning he previously wasnt
- 366
- 91
No, Im basing this on the manga where he gets pined under more light for a longer time after Rukia sees he fears light.
How long he can be on the light or what it does to him is of no concern to Rukia, she just knows he doesn't like it so she forces him to stand on the light.
- 8,427
- 3,144
How is this not instantaneous?
He is bound, the wall breaks, he is literally is touched by light (which he can't dodge because of the Bakudo), starts screaming in agony as Kaien's face is being burned off, and on the next panel, Kaien's face has almost completely burned off.
The fact that this didn't happen before is proof that he dodged the light, you know, the whole ******* point of his character is him trying to avoid his weakness so he can use the face of others to manipulate them because he is a weak bitch compared to the rest of the Espada.
The fact that the anime is being used as some form of proof is just proof in and of itself that this entire argument is nonsense.
- 6,273
- 2,696
The CTR'S being made are just to follow the rules the mods involved in them will do whatever they want even if the knowledgeable memebers and the rest disagree
- 366
- 91
I didn't use the anime like proof I just used it to show how I see the feat.
All you are describing takes longer than realizing there's a hole in the wall and inmediately blitzing away.
- 8,427
- 3,144
You literally linked the anime as proof against the feat, dude.
By the time that Aaroniero looks back, the hole in the wall is already broken to the point where we can see the light from outside - that's what the paneling tells us.
Rukia tries to hit him with an attack, he dodges it, he taunts her, he hears the wall cracking, we see the wall has broken to the point where light outside is visible (meaning it would already be pouring into the room), we see him look scared while still dark, we see him run away from the light and look fine, showing us that he wasn't burned and touched by the light.
Denying this is headcanon
- 366
- 91
No I didn't.
How do you know he is in the dark if shading isn't proof of anything?
How do you know that panel isn't from Aaroniero's point of view, meaning he is seeing those clouds and such?
You don't, and we already stablished it takes a few seconds of sunlight to do away with the disguise.
- 8,427
- 3,144
I LITERALLY ******* posted your comment about you doing that. Don't lie about something that is so obviously untrue
This one btw:
Shading + the area next to Aaroniero's face is blackened out showing that it is still dark + Aaroniero burns in the sunlight are all the proof that you ******* need.
Exactly my point, if Aaroniero's can see outside through the hole in the wall, then that means that the light from outside should already be flooding into the room - this doesn't disprove anything whatsoever, and, in fact, just goes to prove my point.
And no, you established a bunch of bullshit. I posted the scans and showed how that's not true.
The attack is shown breaking the wall, and then Aaroniero is shown screaming in pain and Kaien's face being burned off him as soon as he is put in sunlight - this is instantaneous.
Where is the assumption that the effects aren't instantaneous? If it wasn't, why would he be so scared of it ever touching him at all whatsoever if he had numerous seconds before he was affected by it?
- 366
- 91
Which is why I posted my own comment again so you could read it slowly and realize your mistake.
Which we already know is pointless since shading is not related to light in the room, as seen with Rukia being shaded despite being covbered with light.
Which also means the light reached his eyes, because he is seeing the clouds.
And all of this takes time, Aaroniero isn't going to just sit in the light thinking "oh well I still have 2 seconds to move hehe" because that's just dumb.
How much time do you think it takes him to turn around and yell?
- 8,427
- 3,144
What is the mistake? You literally said, "I think it happened like this, as shown here" and then linked the anime.
But the black-out area around the close-up clearly shows that his side of the room is darkened, ergo the light hasn't reached him yet.
And what? No, the **** it doesn't. It's instantaneous as I have shown with the scans above.
We never see panels of him turning around or slowly being affected by the sunlight.
We are shown the wall being destroyed by Rukia's attack, and then it shows an image of light touching Aaroniero's body as he faces the wall from a bird's eye view, and the next two panels show the same scene, but it's changed to show his face screaming in pain as his face starts burning, and then the next panel his face is literally burned off.
If he was touched by sunlight before, he would be in agony as he would be burning.
How is that not instantaneous? There isn't a panel showing him turn around, shows that he is being touched by light, and then shows that he starts burning. and then eventually his face burns completely off.
It goes from the wall breaking to him looking at the light while screaming in pain as his face burns off. There is no buffered or drawn-out dramatic moment of this happening - it's instantaneous.
- 1,342
- 673
I'm just writing out of curiosity. Could Aaroniero's avoiding light be outlier? He's the weakest Espada since Base Yami and In the battle of Grimmjow vs Ichigo, Grimmjow fought an equivalent battle against masked Ichigo.The speed value of Ichigo's Bankai was already mhs, which was even mentioned in the databook.The mask he uses gives a value like x5,Grimmjow's speed is also scaling to Ichigo, which has used a mask. Now, counting Aaroniero's scan, doesn't that make him faster than Grimmjow?Doesn't this event be against both the folding system and the power order between the Espadas? I wanted to explain it with the most obvious evidence. Now there will be those who will say why other Espadas don't scale to him,so I told to about Grimmjow to make the success outlier.Of course, what I said might be wrong, I just wondering.
- 8,427
- 3,144
You meant that he is the weakest Espada barring Base Yammy, right?
Anyway, by itself, I can see that being a reasonable argument, but with the Negación feat that numerous other characters would scale too, as well as other things like Nanao, who we don't have proof or even the inclination that she got any stronger over the time skip, being able to dodge Lillie's light when fighting him later in the series shows that people on that level could be around that ballpark of speed (Which I think is relativistic-ish? Calcs make no sense to me, you always get a value that seems weird).
There are probably other feats or statements as well, since, with Shonen Manga like Bleach, they are always are, but I don't know the series well enough to remember every feat in the series. You would need to talk to someone more knowledgeable on Bleach speed feats than I.
But whatever the case, this entire debate was in contention to Mach 500 being a high-level speed feat/statement in the verse and that is should be taken seriously and be applied for the profiles, and that there are numerous examples of this not being the case both pre and post time skip.
Anyway, I got to go shower and eat, and I really don't want to debate this topic anymore, so goodbye.
Anyway, by itself, I can see that being a reasonable argument, but with the Negación feat that numerous other characters would scale too, as well as other things like Nanao, who we don't have proof or even the inclination that she got any stronger over the time skip, being able to dodge Lillie's light when fighting him later in the series shows that people on that level could be around that ballpark of speed (Which I think is relativistic-ish? Calcs make no sense to me, you always get a value that seems weird).
There are probably other feats or statements as well, since, with Shonen Manga like Bleach, they are always are, but I don't know the series well enough to remember every feat in the series. You would need to talk to someone more knowledgeable on Bleach speed feats than I.
But whatever the case, this entire debate was in contention to Mach 500 being a high-level speed feat/statement in the verse and that is should be taken seriously and be applied for the profiles, and that there are numerous examples of this not being the case both pre and post time skip.
Anyway, I got to go shower and eat, and I really don't want to debate this topic anymore, so goodbye.
- 11,603
- 3,131
Namek is a planet limited by range, Soul King palace is a dimension in a world where there are infinite size dimensions and the distance travel was in between these two dimensions separated by 72 barriers/portals. Not a physical distance like the skies of Namek.
- 19,199
- 28,262
Can you prove it's an outlier? Is it irreconcilably inconsistent? Saying Grimmjow currently scales slower isn't a counter argument because if Aaroniero scales to sub-rel then we'd just upscale Grimmjow. Regarding Ichigo, he's obliterated by Grimmjow, trains with the Vizards, beats Grimmjow with a mask barely, gets stronger via fighting in Hueco Mundo, then finally his base = Grimmjow's base. At that point in the story is far above what he was in SS arc.
- 2,684
- 317
For the Namek comparison I heard of a actual argument for it being a extremely massive planet
- 11,603
- 3,131
And even then Dispo is supposed to be the first LS character more so like Gin been Mach 500 when we have Hisaigi dodging light.
- 2,684
- 317
Or the classic case of Flash moving close to Light Speed to Light Speed to evacuate a city despite in reality being way beyond that writer could actually fathom he made Flash at that point. Writers are humans like we are the difference is that they don't exactly fact check to see if what they did was right. If anything some of them probably just do a quick google search about something and add it in
- 4,381
- 1,314
Why do we take the statements about GRC and upper Espada's transforming as fact when a Gran Rey Cero is fired and destroys nothing and an upper Espada (Yammy) transforms and didn't do any notable damage to Las Noches?
Wouldn't it be better for everyone to scale to the Cero Oscuras calc?
Wouldn't it be better for everyone to scale to the Cero Oscuras calc?
- 11,603
- 3,131
Databook says his cero is the strongest, you talking about an Ichigo who just got a power boost from Ulquiorra from the death near experience. Even his mask is different.
- 2,684
- 317
It's called Plot guys. Kubo can't have Kenpachi and the others to Karakura so he puts Yammy there solely to make them stay there.
- 935
- 270
Cero isn't GRC, and Ichigo blocked Grimmjow's GRC before his mask changed.
- 11,603
- 3,131
That's a lesser form.
- 11,603
- 3,131
Gran Rey Cero and releases for Espadas 4 and above. Both things happened on panel and Las Noches was not destroyed. The word ”could” holds weight in this vague statement now that I think about it.
Similar threads
