- 342
- 174
All bankai are accompanied by a massive surge of reiatsu when activated, pretty consistently, and Volständig aren't. Which is what Inoue is referring to. Thematically bankai is a release while a Volständig is absorption so it makes sense.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
BAN-KAI! Bleach General Discussion
- Thread starter Zoro21043
- Start date
- 287
- 283
Iirc didn't she see Ichigo going bankai when he was fighting Yammy? Yeah but other than that I agree with this.
- 2,684
- 317
I really feel like telling you all to just go to hell...
- 342
- 174
She didn't see him releasing it, Ichigo already showed up in bankai to block Yammy's punch. She's actually never seen any bankai release right up until Ichigo unleashed his true bankai against Yhwach (which was literally the worst moment she could've seen it).
- 18,837
- 27,434
Well to debunk this, it can be extrapolated that Ayon got stronger, no reason to assume Ayon after 17 months = Ayon from the past. Which is why I said Ayon isn't a limiter, because you cannot prove that he maintained the same strength.
Many things wrong with this:
A) Show me a scan saying "Bankai emit reishi"
B) Orihime has witnessed Bankai
C) Orihime has been trained by numerous intellectual characters in the ways of how the verse energy system works (like Kisuke), to assume she'd be naive to how spiritual pressure, spiritual energy, and reishi works is unfounded
As far as I'm concerned atm this Bankai Vollstandig thingy is pure headcanon. In fact others brought up the exact opposite, claiming Quincy with stolen Bankai couldn't use Vollstandig, because they both function with the same underlying principles/use the same mechanic (it's currently what's written on the profiles of the Quincy with stolen Bankai).
Sokyoku Hill, correct me if I'm wrong, she watched Ichigo fight Byakuya.
- 6,236
- 2,659
There is no proff that anyone got stronger either
So u would be assuming and theorizing he trained or something to get stronger, leading to more steps veing taken on this assumption
Meanwhile if we use OR, we have no proff or statement that he trained during such a time.
So u would be assuming and theorizing he trained or something to get stronger, leading to more steps veing taken on this assumption
Meanwhile if we use OR, we have no proff or statement that he trained during such a time.
- 287
- 283
Also my take in all of this is Orihime has witnessed both Shinigami and Arrancar release their swords to go bankai/reserruccion and she knows that all these transformations release a huge amount of reishi shockwaves upon transforming or during the transfomation process at least. We see this when espada like Ulquiorra, Stark, Grimmjow, Barragan etc go resseruccion (to the point where the top 4 espada would simply destroy las noches by releasing their swords) and when shinigami like Ichigo go bankai as well.
We should also remember that Orihime has never witnessed a quincy vollständig so the transformation catches her by surprise when it isn't the same as what she has experienced before from other races. After further analyzing his form she realizes that instead of emitting reishi like regular transformations should Quilge is instead absorbing it into himself.
Last edited:
- 18,837
- 27,434
Every time a soul experiences the verge of death it grows stronger gg
- 342
- 174
Yeah mate, Allon became transcendent in 17 months, obviously because he's actually Ichigo but monkë
I said bankai emit visible spirit particle shockwaves. Almost all bankai releases do that.
She was running down sokyoku hill when Ichigo releases his bankai.
Yeah, it's an argument made to prove how silly saying "Yeah dude I'm going to actually ignore what the author clearly intends for my own headcanon" is. It isn't an actual argument. Inoue not seeing a bankai is also that (and an interesting observation). If Inoue knows about bankai and about anything in Bleach that has the word rei in it, it isn't too far from assuming that she doesn’t already know what transcendence is. Ichigo didn't spend 17 months talking about croquettes and shit with Inoue after he got back, he'd obviously talk about what he was up to. This isn't something you claimed but Apple, bit it's still important to point out.
Okay, but Inoue commenting that it doesn't come with a spiritual particle wave or reiatsu is clearly a reference to what happens when someone does bankai. It's consistent with most bankai releases we know and it's exceedingly obvious that Inoue is saying that she can't feel reiatsu from the Vollstandig release. This is the exposition you need, this is Kubo commenting on how Volständig works.
Scans stating explicitly that they work with the same underlying principles? Even if that's the case, Yhwach was limiting the sternritter to not use Volständig.
Read Bleach Chapter 554: Desperate Lights For Free (Updated)
Bleach Chapter 554: Desperate Lights - Bleach Chapter 554: Desperate Lights For Free High Quality And Without Any Registration Required.
bleachmangareader.com
Note more than 4 pillars of light.
Let's say the bankai was getting in the way statement is taken at face value, by a sternritter who is clearly not in the know how. It's easily explainable anyways, because they're using someone else's soul while schrifts and their powers work by using their own soul.
She was running down sokyoku hill, with a rescued rukia and gang.
- 6,236
- 2,659
- 342
- 174
God I was hoping I was wrong in the Inoue thing, glad to see that I was. Other than that, I agree. My point was that why are you choosing to believe some shit Inoue's saying but not other shit. Seems like headcanon 101 to me.
- 342
- 174
A jump from around less than captain level to transcendent for someone who isn't Ichigo in 17 months is impossible. We still follow the rules of the verse here.
That said main character powers are limited to main characters. Anyone who isn't Kenpachi (let's be honest he's a main character) and Ichigo aren't main characters and Allon isn't just monkë Ichigo.
- 2,684
- 317
For the love of ****, what the hell is even going on right now but I'll just take a guess and say it's Apple's and Arc's fault?
- 2,684
- 317
The amount of cursed you just said in that...
- 5,662
- 4,892
tbf didnt byakuya have a massive jump from being relative to ss arc bankai ichigo to being being on par with yammy, the strongest espada, in a rather short timeframe
- 18,837
- 27,434
Ichigo did it in 3 big whoop
Alternatively, they're just regular shockwaves and not special reishi shockwaves that are mentioned to draw specific attention to how Quincy absorb reishi
I'm sure you saw the above scans of Orihime watching Ichigo go Bankai against Yammy.
Well Orihime has witnessed Bankai so uh gg. Also, Urahara explained everything to Orihime and the gang while Ichigo was unconscious post Aizen's defeat. Meaning she's probably more equipped to discuss the matter than the average Shinigami.
Are you saying Quilge doesn't have spiritual pressure?
I'm not saying I inherently agree that Vollstandig function with the same underlying method as Bankai, I'm just saying that a strong case for it was made, which is why it got accepted, go on Cang Du's profile. Basically, equal interpretation negs your whole "Bankai and Vollstandig are opposites" because another interpretation is that they're similar.Scans stating explicitly that they work with the same underlying principles? Even if that's the case, Yhwach was limiting the sternritter to not use Volständig.
Note more than 4 pillars of light.Read Bleach Chapter 554: Desperate Lights For Free (Updated)
Bleach Chapter 554: Desperate Lights - Bleach Chapter 554: Desperate Lights For Free High Quality And Without Any Registration Required.
Let's say the bankai was getting in the way statement is taken at face value, by a sternritter who is clearly not in the know how. It's easily explainable anyways, because they're using someone else's soul while schrifts and their powers work by using their own soul.
Considering her source is Kisuke for most everything she learns on the technical side of things, disregarding her word is rather foolish.
Argument from incredulity. "I do not believe anyone can train to this level if they aren't the main character" is not an argument. Orihime in between the first invasion and the final fight with Yhwach trains her shields to be more durable than True Shikai Ichigo, despite being useless against Quilge.
If it eases your worrisome hearts, I still don't inherently think Fullbring > Dangai, I'm continuing to argue because the points against the Quilge scan aren't much for valid debunks imo.
Based Cyber makes an appearance kekw
- 2,684
- 317
I'll just grab a shovel and dig up the graves for the entire idea of Transcendence, Hikone, Soul King and every major plot point of Bleach to it. Since clearly Kubo was just talking out of his ass about it
- 18,837
- 27,434
Y'all overrate transcendence.
Transcendence just means that you're so strong that people vastly weaker than you cannot sense your power.
Just like Fusion Aizen with Isshin, or Dangai Ichigo with Aizen, or Kenpachi with his subordinates, etc. It's not this unobtainable special state that is exclusive to Aizen and Ichigo.
- 5,662
- 4,892
Transcendence also could just have been dropped by kubo at some point. it doesnt play much of a part in the thousand year blood war as you think it should have
- 2,684
- 317
Yeah yeah, I'll just take the shovel
- 18,837
- 27,434
- 5,662
- 4,892
like i think the best thing to stand on for Transcendence to be the concept im seeing peeps here have it as would the databook statement for what god aizen was. Above shinigami and hollow, and mugetsu being the "ultimate techinque". stuff like that
- 2,684
- 317
Digging yours too jackfuckDiggin yer own grave
- 6,236
- 2,659
from what i remember since he lost to ichigo he has been grinding levels like a mad man
- 2,684
- 317
Can't ******* change that since I'm Assassin Okita now but it is what it isDiggin yer own grave
Oh wait I forgot your username is Dangai_Ichigo, oof
- 5,662
- 4,892
- 18,837
- 27,434
The databooks go out of their way to say this man eats sleeps and trains in his spare time. Byakuya is a sigma male
- 2,684
- 317
Yet the "I can't sense shit" isn't brought up every god damn ******* time. You dumbasses would think it would be used more cohenrently but I guess that's how it is for Kubo to not know what he is doing cause let's rush **** this damn manga.
Hope this new arc is also a damn train wreck. And don't ******* say I'm being a little bitch when I've always talked shit about the manga, even when the new chapter came out I was talking shit. I hate it
Hope this new arc is also a damn train wreck. And don't ******* say I'm being a little bitch when I've always talked shit about the manga, even when the new chapter came out I was talking shit. I hate it
- 18,837
- 27,434
Y'all take this too seriously.
- 2,684
- 317
Yes, I ******* do. Don't ******* try me
- 18,837
- 27,434
- 2,684
- 317
I change my mind, go on. Try me more.
- 342
- 174
Bruv
Stop being a contrarian for no reason
Yes sir, I mentioned that because Apple was saying that Inoue doesn't know jackshit about transcendence so she's obviously wrong about Quilge "I'm so OP apparently" Opie's volstandig.
Goddammit that's what I'm saying. That when Inoue states she doesn’t feel reiatsu then states the reason for it, you believe her.
I'm saying the Volständig release wasn't accompanied by a perceptible increase in spiritual pressure which is clearly what Kubo is saying.
Bro, I'm saying that one is accompanied by a massive release of reiatsu and spirit particle waves, one isn't. When in the name of Yhwach did I say that they were opposites?
Cool, I don't disagree
Wow it isn't as if that's what I'm saying.
it is when characters have actual reasons of getting stronger. Ichigo is naturally going to his main potential as someone who has all 4 species in him, there's no reason whatsoever to believe a reindeer gorilla made by 3 adjuchas (not even Vasto Lorde) espadas can become transcendent on the second time it's been summoned. Yeah this is actually an argument from incredulity and not pure ******* logic.
It's useless against Quilge because Sklaverie, but I already acknowledge her being super ******* OP because it was established early on that she was super ******* OP. Allon was established early on to be trash compared to the top tiers, or the transcendents as we call em.
Anyone who believes that is an idiot
u wot m8 scaling is pretty ******* clear on this, why are you saying that you shouldn't disregard Inoue's opinion then disregarding Inoue's opinion? I don't have the time and energy for what seems like nonsense or trolling, so here are some indisputable points:
1. Allon can't have gone from "weaker than most captains" to "transcendent" because he has no genetic advantage whatsoever.
2. Furthermore his (Allon) AP was completely ineffective against Blut Vene, when his level of Blut Vene was ******* dumped on by Yamamoto casually, in shikai, whose reiatsu could be felt throughout Seireitei meaning he isn't transcendent. Since Yhwach actually sets the level of blut vene according to the exact character who's being wanked here for no reason, the Blut Vene is the same for all sternritter.
3. Inoue is clearly pointing out she can't feel any reiatsu from the Vollstandig release, i.e. excess reiatsu that generally accompanies such transformations in Bleach as a whole. Kubo ******* intends to tell us here that a spirit particle wave or reiatsu doesn't accompany a Volständig release not that all quincy are transcendent for no reason whatsoever.
- 2,684
- 317
Just ******* give up man. This shit clearly won't ******* go anywhere today. He's just gonna be a stone wall for the heck of it
- 342
- 174
yeah but quilge isn't in that category mate
- 342
- 174
Well it is trolling, when clearly the argument to be had here is that why the **** was Driscoll so goddamn thicc, like my man had transcendent cake
- 2,684
- 317
You're dead
- 5,662
- 4,892
im a just put everything here for the vsb view on transcendence:
死神から神の域へ移行しつつある藍染には、どんな攻撃も受けない。
最早、挑むこと自体が既に“身分違い"----
「崩玉」の犠牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。「崩玉」の牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。
己の目的達成には、弱き者が駒となるのは当然と考える、その冷淡さ。
幼い刻から強く、敗北を知らなかった藍染。初めて他者が己を超えた瞬間が訪れても、すぐには理解すらできず。
誰よりも強かった藍染は、誰にも理解されることが無い孤独の世界を抱えていた。強き者故の孤独は深く、哀しい。
Aizen, having moved from the realm of the Shinigami to that of a God, is immune to attacks.
To even attack is already deemed as a "mistake"--
He dismisses the Vizords who fell victim to the "Hogyouku" as "Arrancar-like".
Such is Aizen's callousness that he deems it natural for the weak to be used as pawns to achieve his goal.
Aizen has been strong since his childhood and had thus never known defeat. Even when the moment came when someone surpassed him for the first time, he couldn't even understand it right away.
Aizen, who was stronger than anyone else, had a world of loneliness that no one could understand. The loneliness of the strong is deep and sorrowful.
藍染は、己の力が理さえ凌駕することを誇示するため、時間と空間を司る"拘突"を容赦なく破壊する。
To demonstrate that his power surpasses even reason, Aizen mercilessly destroys the "Kōtotsu" that governs space-time.
「崩玉」を従え超越した力を手に入れた統率者
尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)を裏切った元五番隊隊長。
空座町とそこに住む人間の魂魄を使って“王鍵"を創生しようと画策した。
また「崩玉」を自身に取り込み、全てを超越した“存在"へとその身を変貌した。
The leader who has acquired transcendent power with the help of the "Hogyouku".
The former captain of the 5th Squad of Soul Society.
He planned to create the "Oken" using Karakura Town and the souls of the people living there.
He also took the "Hogyouku" into himself, transforming into an "being" that transcends everything
「崩玉」と自身の身体を融合させ、さらなる上位の存在へ進化しようとした藍染。
その最後の形態は、神の姿すらも超えてどこか悪魔的ですらある。
右手は ( )と融合し、その額には第3の眼が開かれている。身体の中心に並ぶ3つの( )は、藍染の魂の孤独と空虚を表しているかのようだ。
Aizen attempted to evolve into a higher being by fusing his own body with the “Hyougyoku”.
His appearance somewhat demonic, it surpasses even the image of a God.
His right hand is fused with (), and three eyes open on his forehead. The three openings on the center of his body appear to represent the loneliness and emptiness of Aizen’s soul.
父から授かった究極の技‼
勝利の代償として失った力‼
藍染を追う一護と一心は、尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)へと続く断界にて究極の技「最後の月牙天衝」の修得に励む。
外の世界よりも出度の濃い空間で永き時間を享受するふたり。
一方、ギンの板逆をこともなげにかわした監染は、「崩玉」を我が物とし、死神や虚(ホロウ)をも超えた存在へと進化した。
その刻、究極の技を従えた一が現れた。
The Ultimate Technique given to him by his father!!
The power he lost as the price of victory!!
As Ichigo and Isshin chased after Aizen, the two work hard in mastering the ultimate technique, the "Final Getsuga Tenshou" in the Dangai that leads to Soul Society.
The two take their eternal time in a space denser than the outside world.
On the other hand, Aizen, who easily fended off Gin's attacks, took the "Hogyouku" as his own and evolved into a being that surpasses Shinigami and Hollow.
At that moment, Ichigo appeared with the ultimate technique
となる 究極の技。meaning “This is the ultimate technique”
this is consistent with this translation as well
"The ultimate move given by his father! A victory at the cost of the lost of his powers": Ichigo Isshin are in the in-between world in order to learn the supreme move which is the Ultimate Getsuga Tenshô. in this space denser than thee external world , they have a lot of time ahead.”
全てを超越したその姿は、死神でも虚でもない、異形の姿だ った。
The figure transcending everything isn’t like a Shinigami or Hollow, the figure is fantastic/grotesque.
than lastly
死神から神の域へ移行しつつある藍染には、どんな攻撃も受けない。
最早、挑むこと自体が既に“身分違い"----
「崩玉」の犠牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。「崩玉」の牲になった仮面の軍勢 (ヴァイザード)を破面 (アランカル)もどき”と言い捨てる。
己の目的達成には、弱き者が駒となるのは当然と考える、その冷淡さ。
幼い刻から強く、敗北を知らなかった藍染。初めて他者が己を超えた瞬間が訪れても、すぐには理解すらできず。
誰よりも強かった藍染は、誰にも理解されることが無い孤独の世界を抱えていた。強き者故の孤独は深く、哀しい。
Aizen, having moved from the realm of the Shinigami to that of a God, is immune to attacks.
To even attack is already deemed as a "mistake"--
He dismisses the Vizords who fell victim to the "Hogyouku" as "Arrancar-like".
Such is Aizen's callousness that he deems it natural for the weak to be used as pawns to achieve his goal.
Aizen has been strong since his childhood and had thus never known defeat. Even when the moment came when someone surpassed him for the first time, he couldn't even understand it right away.
Aizen, who was stronger than anyone else, had a world of loneliness that no one could understand. The loneliness of the strong is deep and sorrowful.
藍染は、己の力が理さえ凌駕することを誇示するため、時間と空間を司る"拘突"を容赦なく破壊する。
To demonstrate that his power surpasses even reason, Aizen mercilessly destroys the "Kōtotsu" that governs space-time.
「崩玉」を従え超越した力を手に入れた統率者
尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)を裏切った元五番隊隊長。
空座町とそこに住む人間の魂魄を使って“王鍵"を創生しようと画策した。
また「崩玉」を自身に取り込み、全てを超越した“存在"へとその身を変貌した。
The leader who has acquired transcendent power with the help of the "Hogyouku".
The former captain of the 5th Squad of Soul Society.
He planned to create the "Oken" using Karakura Town and the souls of the people living there.
He also took the "Hogyouku" into himself, transforming into an "being" that transcends everything
「崩玉」と自身の身体を融合させ、さらなる上位の存在へ進化しようとした藍染。
その最後の形態は、神の姿すらも超えてどこか悪魔的ですらある。
右手は ( )と融合し、その額には第3の眼が開かれている。身体の中心に並ぶ3つの( )は、藍染の魂の孤独と空虚を表しているかのようだ。
Aizen attempted to evolve into a higher being by fusing his own body with the “Hyougyoku”.
His appearance somewhat demonic, it surpasses even the image of a God.
His right hand is fused with (), and three eyes open on his forehead. The three openings on the center of his body appear to represent the loneliness and emptiness of Aizen’s soul.
父から授かった究極の技‼
勝利の代償として失った力‼
藍染を追う一護と一心は、尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)へと続く断界にて究極の技「最後の月牙天衝」の修得に励む。
外の世界よりも出度の濃い空間で永き時間を享受するふたり。
一方、ギンの板逆をこともなげにかわした監染は、「崩玉」を我が物とし、死神や虚(ホロウ)をも超えた存在へと進化した。
その刻、究極の技を従えた一が現れた。
The Ultimate Technique given to him by his father!!
The power he lost as the price of victory!!
As Ichigo and Isshin chased after Aizen, the two work hard in mastering the ultimate technique, the "Final Getsuga Tenshou" in the Dangai that leads to Soul Society.
The two take their eternal time in a space denser than the outside world.
On the other hand, Aizen, who easily fended off Gin's attacks, took the "Hogyouku" as his own and evolved into a being that surpasses Shinigami and Hollow.
At that moment, Ichigo appeared with the ultimate technique
となる 究極の技。meaning “This is the ultimate technique”
this is consistent with this translation as well
"The ultimate move given by his father! A victory at the cost of the lost of his powers": Ichigo Isshin are in the in-between world in order to learn the supreme move which is the Ultimate Getsuga Tenshô. in this space denser than thee external world , they have a lot of time ahead.”
全てを超越したその姿は、死神でも虚でもない、異形の姿だ った。
The figure transcending everything isn’t like a Shinigami or Hollow, the figure is fantastic/grotesque.
than lastly
- 342
- 174
Arc: "Well quilge did do sklaveri, which is the absolute subordination of reishi"
