I'm (Still) Based [Bleach Edition]

[Archinord991]

Y'all need to stop counting your eggs before they've hatched fr.

We can all be patient and wait for more staff.

agreed, this thread will not run.

 

[Elizhaa]

Honestly, 3-A to Low 2-C doesn't sound like a proper tier; such format is more so for Varies tier. I think 3-A, likely/possibly Low 2-C makes sense. I digress as I can leave the format topic for another thread.

I think I am fine with the proposals currently, from what I read.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think 3-A, likely/possibly Low 2-C makes sense.

I meant to type 3-A, possibly Low 2-C good catch.

 

[LordGinSama]

3-A doesn't work as much as Low 2-C does.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think “At least 3-A, likely Low 2-C” makes sense

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I think “At least 3-A, likely Low 2-C” makes sense

Naw they get what Reio gets, "3-A, possibly Low 2-C"

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Ichigo: 3-B with Mugetsu (Yhwach states this power is on par with his True Shikai)

No, True Shikai was stronger than Dangai Ichigo. He regained his true power and more due to having access to his actual power as Old Man Zangetsu said and having Fullbring influence on top.

 

[TOAAPRESENCE1]

No, True Shikai was stronger than Dangai Ichigo. He regained his true power and more due to having access to his actual power as Old Man Zangetsu said and having Fullbring influence on top.

so mugetsu level or above

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

No, True Shikai was stronger than Dangai Ichigo. He regained his true power and more due to having access to his actual power as Old Man Zangetsu said and having Fullbring influence on top.

Final Getsuga Tenshou/Mugetsu and Post-Dangai Training Ichigo are not the same.

Post-Dangai Training Ichigo is 3 months of training + accepting his powers.

Final Getsuga Tenshou/Mugetsu is becoming the Getsuga itself and is the same power Yhwach equates to his True Shikai.

Basically, Post-Dangai Ichigo < Mugetsu ~ True Shikai.

 

[SilentBob34]

So would Post Dangai just keep his regular rating? With Mugetsu being 3B?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

So would Post Dangai just keep his regular rating? With Mugetsu being 3B?

Yes, FGT Ichigo > Dangai Ichigo. Once Ichigo breaks out the Final Getsuga Tenshou, Aizen ***** himself and says “is he in a higher dimension than me”.

 

[Cyberblader90]

i recall this

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/post-3772999

高めたその力は藍染惣右介を倒す為に

そして藍染惣右介を倒し失った力を

再び取り戻したのは

私の眼前で霊王の命を断つ為だったのだ

The power you raised up to take down Aizen Sousuke...

And the power that you lost to defeat him...

You've regained it...

Only to cut down the life of the Soul King right before my eyes!

 

[Cyberblader90]

and here is the viz just in case

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Mugetsu is not equal to True Shikai, True Shikai is superior per Old Man Zangetsu's actual statements in the final arc and Fullbring influence.

Mugetsu is not getting upgraded.

 

[Cyberblader90]

ehhh


doesnt yhwach make it clear its the power he regained that beat aizen, which was mugetsu

 

[Zoro21043]

I agree ts>mugetsu but the way yhwach is wording sounds like mugetsu level is enough to cut reio

 

[Zoro21043]

I think mugetsu should get a possibly instead of a solid rating as its a bit vague but implied to be the case

 

[Cyberblader90]

perhaps a bit of lore for mugetsu can help:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/official-translations-requests-thread-new-forum.107531/page-10#post-3772999

父から授かった究極の技‼

勝利の代償として失った力‼

藍染を追う一護と一心は、尸魂界 (ソウル・ソサエティ)へと続く断界にて究極の技「最後の月牙天衝」の修得に励む。

外の世界よりも出度の濃い空間で永き時間を享受するふたり。

一方、ギンの板逆をこともなげにかわした監染は、「崩玉」を我が物とし、死神や虚(ホロウ)をも超えた存在へと進化した。

その刻、究極の技を従えた一が現れた。

The Ultimate Technique given to him by his father!!

The power he lost as the price of victory!!

As Ichigo and Isshin chased after Aizen, the two work hard in mastering the ultimate technique, the "Final Getsuga Tenshou" in the Dangai that leads to Soul Society.

The two take their eternal time in a space denser than the outside world.

On the other hand, Aizen, who easily fended off Gin's attacks, took the "Hogyouku" as his own and evolved into a being that surpasses Shinigami and Hollow.

At that moment, Ichigo appeared with the ultimate technique

となる 究極の技。meaning “This is the ultimate technique”

this is consistent with this translation as well

"The ultimate move given by his father! A victory at the cost of the lost of his powers": Ichigo Isshin are in the in-between world in order to learn the supreme move wich is the Ultimate Getsuga Tenshô. in this space denser than thee external world , they have a lot of time ahead.”

And keep in mind the Aizen this technique beat was transcendental:
全てを超越したその姿は、死神でも虚でもない、異形の姿だ った。
The figure transcending everything isn’t like a Shinigami or Hollow, the figure is fantastic/grotesque.

Yet aizen said this about mugetsu:

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Mugetsu is not equal to True Shikai, True Shikai is superior per Old Man Zangetsu's actual statements in the final arc and Fullbring influence.

Mugetsu is not getting upgraded.

Merged Hollow form and Bankai do surpass Mugetsu, so Yhwach doesn’t inherently contradict Zangetsu.

Yhwach verbatim states that the power that defeated Aizen (FGT/Mugetsu) is the same power that killed Reio (True Shikai).

No reason to assume Yhwach, who’s aware of all Ichigo’s battles, incorrectly labeled Ichigo’s power.

 

[Damage3245]

Yhwach verbatim states that the power that defeated Aizen (FGT/Mugetsu) is the same power that killed Reio (True Shikai).

No reason to assume Yhwach, who’s aware of all Ichigo’s battles, incorrectly labeled Ichigo’s power.

There is another interpretation of Yhwach's line, which is that he was referring to Ichigo regaining his spiritual abilities in general hence why a panel of Ginjo was shown there.

 

[Ssr4vegito]

There is another interpretation of Yhwach's line, which is that he was referring to Ichigo regaining his spiritual abilities in general hence why a panel of Ginjo was shown there.

This

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

There is another interpretation of Yhwach's line, which is that he was referring to Ichigo regaining his spiritual abilities in general hence why a panel of Ginjo was shown there.

 

[RanaProGamer]

The advantage of early access, thanks Arc

Went through it a couple of times, I agree

 

[Ovy7]

There is another interpretation of Yhwach's line, which is that he was referring to Ichigo regaining his spiritual abilities in general hence why a panel of Ginjo was shown there.

Yes, which is why I think that Old Man Zangetsu's statement that IMade talked about above is better than this one.

 

[Bernkastelll]

So, how do we treat Mugetsu?

 

[YukaSama4]

Imo Just scale Monster Aizen and Mugetsu above Senna, cuz Aizen literally transcended both Hollows and Soul reapers and surpassed both of them according to manga and unmasked, and Mugetsu destroyed him easily
Unmasked says he transcends anything or everything iirc

 

[Damage3245]

Imo Just scale Monster Aizen and Mugetsu above Senna, cuz Aizen literally transcended both Hollows and Soul reapers and surpassed both of them

What does that have to do with him scaling above Senna's feat?

Being stronger than any individual / trasencending over any individual Hollow or Shinigami doesn't mean he's superior to the countless Blanks all together.

 

[YukaSama4]

What does that have to do with him scaling above Senna's feat?

Being stronger than any individual / trasencending over any individual Hollow or Shinigami doesn't mean he's superior to the countless Blanks all together.

yeah unmasked still declares that he transcends everything.
I mean even without that Mugetsu is still the ultimate technique which means is also above Senna’s technique

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

There is another interpretation of Yhwach's line, which is that he was referring to Ichigo regaining his spiritual abilities in general hence why a panel of Ginjo was shown there.

Fair nuff

 

[Cyberblader90]

It being in reference to when he regained his power doesn't make much sense to me since it's still in reference to that being what is being used to cut down the soul King.

Fullbring bankai was at best relative to pre Almighty yhwach, unless you use the statements of it potentially being stronger than Dangai, which I personally don't think is a good interpretation

 

[Damage3245]

It being in reference to when he regained his power doesn't make much sense to me since it's still in reference to that being what is being used to cut down the soul King.

Ichigo did technically regain his true power when he regained his power from his time with Ginjo - it was just being suppressed by Old Man Zangetsu.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Mugetsu being suppressed however is the thing I disagree with, at least given how we treated on site.

Aizen's justification on site for low godly regen is that who gets who also included Quincy power in it. Given the visual context of what Ichigo faced mentally to build up to being able to use that it would make sense that it's most of the power if not all of it considering also that zangetsu couldn't naturally reproduce the power for Ichigo until urahara's intervention of giving Ichigo power via the blade rukia uses on him.

 

[Cyberblader90]

Just slap on a possibly to mugetsu. No one scales to it as far as I recall and it doesn't break any scaling.

 

[AppleLord]

Tsukishima > God Aizen

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Tsukishima > God Aizen

Yeah no, no one is proposing that, get that out of my God Tier thread lol.

 

[Bernkastelll]

When are we accepting all feats above tier 7 as outliers?

 

[SilentBob34]

Kinda leaning towards what Imade has to say on mugetsu

but Cyber’s option of a possibly 3B on mugetsu also seems like a good option

 

[The_Alxhemist]

Btw the discussion rule on refraining upgrades on Bleach to 3A because there current showings were planet level should be removed since Arc basically debunked that.

 

[Tyri456]

Well, then let’s not just count “Mugestu“ if so many people are uncertain about it, simple as that.
Maybe in the future some databook would explain better what Yhwach said. For now, lets just upscale it to high tier and not god tier. I don’t really think is a problem for anyone.

 

[Cyberblader90]

We can just go with all together removing it from the op or just slapping on a possibly