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Baki verse downgrade

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Hmm, gonna check that.
Unfortunally, I had big internet problems recently, if someone is kind enough to give me the exact chapter.
 
CuddleFox said:
The problem is that we already know the destructive force of the dash and have seen its effects, and it's nowhere close to tier 8.
Observe how a cockroach move and try to calc it the same way, maybe you'll see what the problem is with that reasoning.


That didn't happen in the diegesis, that's an ad.

Toba crashes on a 4x4 and destroys itGrappler Baki 198
Kaku breaks a wall in raitai with Yujiro's strengthNew Grappler Baki 231
Yujiro hits the ground during the raitai and destroys itNew Grappler Baki 233
Baki breaks glasses and takes 6 shirt buttons without being seen at all by anyone when he is surrounded by the prison guardsSon of Ogre 57
Pickle bends a truck by crashing into itSon of Ogre 106
Katsumi breaks all the windows in his room with a shockwave when testing the hitless blowSon of Ogre 122
Pickle dodges Jack's blow and comes back in place right awaySon of Ogre 145
Pickle spins Jack 7 times before he hits the groundSon of Ogre 152
Retsu hits through a boxing gloveSon of Ogre 205
Yujiro disappears from everyone's sight when militaries are spying on Baki's house during the father-son dinner.Son of Ogre 248
Just before falling after Baki did his first 0.5second blow on him, Yujiro makes a complete 180° rotation of the leg to catch himself while he was about 2 centimeters away to touch the ground.Son of Ogre 271
Yuichiro tanked 1000 tons of ammunition that made the island change shape for 6 monthsSon of Ogre 286

The Yuichiro one is (maybe) calcable by getting the amount of destroyed land and dividing that total energy per second. Like it was done here: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Agnaa/Katanagatari_-_Ganryu_Island_Shrinking
Althrough it will likely give a tier 9 result. And we might have to ask a calc group member first, as that method is a bit strange.
Click to expand...
Just bumping this so I don't have to go back multiple pages to find this
 
CuddleFox said:
Hmm, gonna check that.
Unfortunally, I had big internet problems recently, if someone is kind enough to give me the exact chapter.
Click to expand...
I checked it out and:
In the chapter 291 is explained that Retsu created an Obsidian sphere, unlike others Chinese Kenpo users which created stone spheres.

At the beginning of chapter 328, You can see his feat.
 
Kerr5 said:
I checked it out and:
In the chapter 291 is explained that Retsu created an Obsidian sphere, unlike others Chinese Kenpo users which created stone spheres.

At the beginning of chapter 328, You can see his feat.
Click to expand...
Was it done in 1 hit?
 
Kerr5 said:
It's not seen, but considering how clean the damage is it looks like a single attack.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure about this. Isn't the essence of the test from the stones supposed to show the accuracy of your attacks? I thought the coolest thing about this feat is how accurate and technical Retsu's punches are.
 
Oh, that's very interesting, I completely forgot about that.
If we find a way to calculate it, it would probably be easy to also calculate Kehaya 101's big rock split.
 
CuddleFox said:
Oh, that's very interesting, I completely forgot about that.
If we find a way to calculate it, it would probably be easy to also calculate Kehaya 101's big rock split.
Click to expand...
Yes and i think it will give bigger results than 10kg or below, anyways I won't calc ir since I'm currently bussy with the scaling, NGB is never gonna be the same again after my CRT
 
Sir_Ovens said:
Doppo should be > Katsumi <= Retsu <= Pickle
Click to expand...
Retsu is more like <<< Pickle

When Retsu used brute force, he wasn't even able to move him, the only reason why Retsu gave him some light problems is because of his massively superior technique, but he never really damaged Pickle.

Also Doppo is inferior to Son of Ogre Katsumi.

Pickle >>> Retsu = Katsumi > Doppo
 
Kerr5 said:
Regarding High Tiers:
Regarding Mid Tiers:
  • Since bakiverse durability doesn't work like in most fictional verses, characters who can hurt Yujiro but are far weaker than him will upscale from lightning which didn't have any effect on him (8-C+/Baseline High 8-C)
  • Characters who downscale from them will be 8-C/+
And i'd like to add: Characters far weaker than end of SoO Base Baki like Oliva (Who used to be far Below Sukune who is far Below base Baki) should likely be High 8-C+, since Base Baki is pretty close to Baseline 8-B
Click to expand...
Okay. That is probably fine to apply then.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. That is probably fine to apply then.
Click to expand...
Actually i'm working on a huge new CRT for the verse using calcs accepted here, also adding new calcs and a ton of ignored feats/mentions which i will upload after i'm done.

It will take like... Maybe months, but will re-edit the whole verse, since Bakiverse is currently a mess, reason why almost everything related to it are CRTs which debunks other CRTs and pointless debates about small stuff.
 
Can't you and other knowledgeable members improve on the scaling for our Baki wiki pages based on this thread in the meantime? There are no guarantees that you will ever get your full intended revision done, and a significant improvement is still much better than nothing.
 
Antvasima said:
Can't you and other knowledgeable members improve on the scaling for our Baki wiki pages based on this thread in the meantime? There are no guarantees that you will ever get your full intended revision done, and a significant improvement is still much better than nothing.
Click to expand...
I'll publish calc by calc and explain scaling for each one of them, via individual CRTs, but still will take a lot, there's just too much to do here
 
It's really frustrating dealing with Baki scaling because people choose to completely ignore the fact that just because a fight isn't fair, it doesn't mean two characters can't be in the same ballpark in terms of AP. A true and utter stomp in Baki is when one character is absolutely powerless to do anything to another character. Think prison guards against Baki. But to say that Retsu is whole tiers below Pickle is asinine considering Pickle didn't just pick him up and toss him aside. And even if you want to disregard Pickle scaling, there's no way you can disregard Musashi scaling, because everyone in the main cast has shown the capacity to do harm to Musashi.
 
Sir_Ovens said:
It's really frustrating dealing with Baki scaling because people choose to completely ignore the fact that just because a fight isn't fair, it doesn't mean two characters can't be in the same ballpark in terms of AP. A true and utter stomp in Baki is when one character is absolutely powerless to do anything to another character. Think prison guards against Baki. But to say that Retsu is whole tiers below Pickle is asinine considering Pickle didn't just pick him up and toss him aside. And even if you want to disregard Pickle scaling, there's no way you can disregard Musashi scaling, because everyone in the main cast has shown the capacity to do harm to Musashi.
Click to expand...
1. Pickle dashed Retsu several meters with a casual hit, and Retsu was fully blocking it

2. As soon as Retsu stops using techniques, his attacks can't Even move Pickle (Is not even Pickle getting moved by Retsu but Retsu being unable to hurt him, literally nothing happens)

3. In Baki combat system is much more complicated than that, a character can be several times stronger and still lose.

4. Musashi's durability is far below his own AP.

5. Dou Retsu is stronger than Son Of Ogre Retsu.


Again, we are talking about the Bakiverse here.
We have a character which is so weak compared to Baki that Baki's eyes breaks his fingers.
But he still manages to make Baki bleed with his attacks.

Stats in the Bakiverse are not solid, every part of the body has its own stats, every attack also has its own stats, every fighting stance, everything.

In the Bakiverse, something as simple as kicking instead of punching means a superior AP, simply because legs are normally stronger than arms.

If we want to make a new scaling for Baki, we have to understand that Itagaki is a martial artist, that's why he knows and plays with that kind of things, this verse isn't created based on a numeric scaling, is created from a martial point of view, and that's what makes scaling it so special and different.
 
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Kerr5 said:
We have a character which is so weak compared to Baki that Baki's eyes breaks his fingers.
But he still manages to make Baki bleed with his attacks.
Click to expand...
This is not entirely true. Baki broke his fingers not so much with the strength of his eyes, but with the kinetic energy of his whole body.
It's still impressive, but not as overpriced as you described.
 
NikHelton said:
Let's update god-tiers and leave the rest for later

The following profiles will be updated: Baki, Yujiro, Yuichiro, Pickle, Musashi and probably Oliva
Click to expand...
Oliva shouldn't, Pickle will scale straight to 15.24 tons, Baki should have2 keys for Dou: Post Yujiro - Ending of Dou yo Dou II

Pickle: 15.24 tons (withstood a full power attack from Late Son Of Ogre Base Baki)
Baki late son of Ogre: 15.24 tons (calc
Yujiro son of Ogre: >>>15.24 tons (Baki's attacks wasn't able to even move him)
Baki post Yujiro to Dou I: >>>15.24 tons (comparable to Son Of Ogre Yujiro)
Musashi: >>>>15.24tons (Superior to Post-Yujiro Baki)
Yujiro Dou I and II: >>>>15.24 tons (likely superior to Musashi)

Baki's Keys will be:
13yo
Post-Ando
Post-Hanayama
Post-Gaia
Beginning of the series
Maximum Tournament
Post-Retsu to Early New Grappler Baki
Late New Grappler Baki to Early Son of Ogre
Late Son of Ogre
Post-Yujiro to Early Dou I
Late Dou I to Dou II
 
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Baki Son of Ogre went for being brutally overpowered by Pickle to pull out a tooth with a single strike.

Pickle scales from Late Son of Ogre, Oliva doesn't, he downscales from Sukune and scales as an equal to Demon Back Baki, which would leave him at High 8-C+, but those are spoilers
 
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Kerr5 said:
Oliva shouldn't, Pickle will scale straight to 15.24 tons, Baki should have2 keys for Dou: Post Yujiro - Ending of Dou yo Dou II

Pickle: 15.24 tons (withstood a full power attack from Late Son Of Ogre Base Baki)
Baki late son of Ogre: 15.24 tons (calc
Yujiro son of Ogre: >>>15.24 tons (Baki's attacks wasn't able to even move him)
Baki post Yujiro to Dou I: >>>15.24 tons (comparable to Son Of Ogre Yujiro)
Musashi: >>>>15.24tons (Superior to Post-Yujiro Baki)
Yujiro Dou I and II: >>>>15.24 tons (likely superior to Musashi)

Baki's Keys will be:
13yo
Post-Ando
Post-Hanayama
Post-Gaia
Beginning of the series
Maximum Tournament
Post-Retsu to Early New Grappler Baki
Late New Grappler Baki to Early Son of Ogre
Late Son of Ogre
Post-Yujiro to Early Dou I
Late Dou I to Dou II
Click to expand...
Are Baki and Yujiro really comparable to each other?
 
NikHelton said:
Are Baki and Yujiro really comparable to each other?
Click to expand...
Yes, they exchanged blows and damaged each other (Yujiro was superior but not by a long Gap)

After that Musashi casually surpassed Baki on everything, and Yujiro was likely superior considering Musashi couldn't cut his skin.

Also between Son Of Ogre and Dou I there's a whole year time-skip, so Yujiro being massively stronger makes sense
 
Also Baki at the Ending of Dou I was comparable to Musashi, that's his Last key. Late Dou I to Dou II
 
Kerr5 said:
Yes, they exchanged blows and damaged each other (Yujiro was superior but not by a long Gap)

After that Musashi casually surpassed Baki on everything, and Yujiro was likely superior considering Musashi couldn't cut his skin.

Also between Son Of Ogre and Dou I there's a whole year time-skip, so Yujiro being massively stronger makes sense
Click to expand...
Musashi cut Yujiro's skin. Yujiro just didn't let him finish the attack
 
Kerr5 said:
That's just superfluos damage like making his nose bleed like Hanayama did.
Even Musashi gets suprised that he can't penetrate his skin.
Click to expand...
He was not talking about the skin, but about the collarbone.
I honestly do not understand the logic of the author at this point. Yujiro blocked the blow and didn't let it finish.
Naturally, Musashi couldn't cut it.
 
NikHelton said:
He was not talking about the skin, but about the collarbone.
I honestly do not understand the logic of the author at this point. Yujiro blocked the blow and didn't let it finish.
Naturally, Musashi couldn't cut it.
Click to expand...
Maybe Yujiro grabbed him after and Musashi was suprised cause he couldn't see his movement or whatevs, is a confusing scene.

Anyways considering Musashi is stated by Baki to be equal to Hanayama, Yujiro still being superior.
Since he did with one slap what took 4 hits for Hanayama: Knock Out Musashi
 
Kerr5 said:
Hey cuddles, i was rereading Baki calcs to find more values, and i have a problem with this calc.
Why did you divide the energy? I know Retsu launched a ton of attacks but he didn't touch the wall.

I don't think the sheer air moved by his punches is just a strong as his actual punches, if he didn't touch the wall then there's no reason to divide the result.
Click to expand...
I don't see how the fact that he didn't hit the wall changes that he wouldn't have achieved that result with one punch.
I divided it because that was still normal punches.
Now, if you really want to inflate the results, calculate the energy needed to move the air so fast that a wall is pulverized : p

cloudyagami said:
i made a calc for kehaya's rock feat months ago when i made his profile, not sure if its accurate. Got a 8-C scale
Click to expand...
The rock was not fragmented. It was broken in two.
I discussed with a member of the calculation group, he told me that in this case, it should be calculated as if the rock had been sliced by a blade that would have the thickness of the side of Kehaya's foot. Even through he wasn't sure due to the unevenness of the crack.
The same method could probably be used for Retsu's obsidian, (I suppose)
 
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