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Baki verse downgrade
- Thread starter NikHelton
- Start date
- Status
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Link the calcs
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- Thread starter
- #363
Baki shakes City block
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I'm all for Magnitude 4 for reason I stated in the calc itselfBaki shakes City block
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Because he didn't really get all that much stronger up to the Yujiro fight
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Baki's earthquake make the link between Oliva and Yujiro. Oliva is weaker than that, Yujiro is stronger.
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- Thread starter
- #370
Oliva makes earthquake?
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- Thread starter
- #372
Supersonic
| Old calcs: | New calcs: |
| Yujiro stops a earthquake (7-C) | - (Debanced) |
| Yujiro shakes the skyscraper (8-A) | New calculation using vibration (High 8-C) |
| Baki shakes city block (8-B+) | Same method, but using a suitable magnitude (8-B) |
Yujiro tanks a lightning (High 8-C) | Lowered using 1 second instead of 5, in the comments of the same blog (8-С+) |
| Doyle explodes Katsumi (9-A) | Using any of the first three ends (9-B+/9-A) |
| Nomi no Sukune II crush Coal into a diamond (Class M) | It is recognized as unsuitable for calculation and is an outlier. Lowered to the "100 tons" declared by the manga (Class K) |
| Sikorsky dodges a bullet (Transonic) | - (Debanced) |
| Doyle dodges a bullet (Supersonic) | - (Debanced) |
| Yujiro dodges lightning (Massively Hypersonic) | - (Debanced) |
| Musashi attempts a blitz (Hypersonic+) | Supersonic+ combat and reaction speed (incorrect period. In the original it was indicated that the analysis of the information took 0.000... seconds, not movement) |
| - | Yujiro catches an arrow (Supersonic) |
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- Thread starter
- #374
Could you make a table where the scaling of the characters would be indicated?
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I'm not sure about this one. MonkeyOfLife isnt the most reliable translator. I would recomend to ask @Arc7Kuroi to translate the scan, since he knows japonese
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- Thread starter
- #376
That would be fine. Thank you
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Lol, that would literally take weeks and re-reading the entirety of the 100+ volumes. I'm already in the process of re-reading the whole thing to find new feats.
However, I have a list of all the physical strength comparisons in the main series. This could be the basis of a tier list, if you are patient enough to make one.
- Childhood Saga
- Baki Hanma > Wakimoto
- Baki Hanma > Toru Nishida
- Baki Hanma > Hirao
- Tommy Carsen > Yuri Chakovsky (Hirao says Tommy is stronger than Chakovsky)
- Kaoru Hanayama > Tommy Carsen
- Yuri Chakovsky > Sensarak Dinoy
- Yuri Chakovsky > Baki Hanma
- Reichi Ando > Baki Hanma (Baki is impressed by a feat from Ando)
- Yasha ape > Reichi Ando
- Yasha ape > Baki Hanma
- Baki Hanma = Yasha ape
- Kaoru Hanayama > Yuri Chakovsky
- Baki Hanma = Kaoru Hanayama
- Kaoru Hanayama > Yasha ape (Baki says that Hana is stronger than the yasha ape)
- Kaoru Hanayama (Vice Grip) > Baki Hanma
- Kaoru Hanayama (Fighting stance) > Baki Hanma (Did much more damage to Baki, Baki had to break his fingers one by one because hanayama's whole fists were too strong)
- Yujiro Hanma > Kaoru Hanayama
- Yujiro Hanma > Baki Hanma
- Baki Hanma > Sanada
- Baki Hanma > Kuraishi
- Baki Hanma > Gaia (Nomura)
- Baki Hanma > Chiba Brothers
- Gaia = Baki Hanma
- Baki Hanma (post resurection) > Gaia
- Baki Hanma > Kurokawa (The one Baki fought)
- Kurokawa (The one Baki fought) (Sword) > Baki Hanma (Baki would likely have been cut in half if he didn't stop the attack given the cut he had)
- Baki Hanma > Yuri Chakovsky
- Baki Hanma > Kaoru Hanayama
- Yujiro Hanma > Baki Hanma
- Baki Hanma > Shumei Kano
- Underground Arena Saga
- Baki Hanma > Atsushi Suedo
- Izo Motobe > Kiyosumi Kato (Kato is paralyzed by motobe's aura when they're about to fight)
- Doppo Orochi > Kiyosumi Kato
- Baki Hanma > Takayama (Baki at 13 years old take less damage from baseball bats hits from thugs)
- Kiyosumi Kato > Takagi
- Baki Hanma = Shinogi Kosho
- Junichi Hanada > Tadaka
- Junichi Hanada > Sato
- Junichi Hanada > Chang
- Junichi Hanada > Kurokawa (The one Hanada fought)
- Mount Toba > Junichi Hanada
- Baki Hanma = Mount Toba
- Mount Toba (Body drop) > Baki Hanma
- Yujiro Hanma > Baki Hanma
- Yujiro Hanma > Doppo Orochi
- Yujiro Hanma > Tatsumi Yoichi
- Yujiro Hanma > Izo Motobe
- Ogino > Takayama
- Kureha Shinogi > Mr Bell
- Yujiro Hanma > Doppo Orochi
- Yujiro Hanma (Demon Back) > Atsushi Suedo
- Yujiro Hanma (Demon Back) > Doppo Orochi
- Baki Hanma = Kureha Shinogi (Kureha's attacks didn't have effects when they were telegraphed, but Kureha recovered quickly from Baki's angry attacks too)
- Baki Hanma (Gotaijutsu) > Kureha Shinogi
- Maximum Tournament Saga
- Kiyosumi Kato = Junichi Hanada
- Baki Hanma > Andreas Reagan
- Zulu > Dentoranee Jitpika
- Kanji Igari > Rob Robinson
- Kinryuzan > Izo Motobe
- Retsu Kaioh > Sergei Taktarov
- Yasha Ape Jr > Roberto Gueran
- Yasha Ape Jr > Kiyosumi Kato
- Yasha Ape Jr > Yasha ape (Baki says he is stronger than his father)
- Katsumi Orochi > Yasha Ape Jr
- Kaoru Hanayama > Bunnoshin Inagi
- Katsumi Orochi > Roland Eustass
- Baki Hanma = Katsumi Orochi
- Iron Michael > Ri Moko
- Kohei Hatanaka = Chiharu Shiba
- Mike Queen = Kengo Misaki (Misaki won with a submission hold but still managed to parry a direct attack from Mike queen with no problem)
- Jack Hanma > Sergio Silva
- Jack Hanma > Baki Hanma (Baki's surprise attack had no effect on Jack)
- Yujiro Hanma > Baki Hanma
- Yu Amanai > Minoru Yamamoto
- Doppo Orochi = Richard Filth
- Goki Shibukawa = Roger Harlon
- Kureha Shinogi > Shinogi Kosho (Kureha took a lot of hits from Kosho without taking any damage)
- Kureha Shinogi = Shinogi Kosho (Burst of will)
- Baki Hanma = Zulu
- Kinryuzan = Kanji Igari
- Retsu Kaioh > Mount Toba
- Kaoru Hanayama > Katsumi Orochi
- Katsumi Orochi (Quadruple median line strike) = Kaoru Hanayama
- Katsumi Orochi (Mach Punch) > Kaoru Hanayama
- Iron Michael > Chiharu Shiba (Shiba needed a lot of attacks to put Michael down and his first few hits were nothing, Michael knocked Shiba out in just two hits. Shiba just had more endurance)
- Alexander Garland > Sergei Taktarov (We don't know how the fight went, Garland is not injured)
- Alexander Garland > Roger Harlon (Harlon is afraid of Garland)
- Jack Hanma > Kengo Misaki
- Doppo Orochi = Yu Amanai
- Yujiro Hanma > Yu Amanai
- Yujiro Hanma > Ri Moko
- Yujiro Hanma > Iron Michael
- Yujiro Hanma > Roger Harlon
- Yujiro Hanma > Richard Filth
- Yujiro Hanma > Kohei Hatanaka
- Yujiro Hanma > Kinryuzan
- Yujiro Hanma > Rob Robinson
- Yujiro Hanma > Roland Eustass
- Baki Hanma = Kanji Igari
- Jack Hanma > Alexander Garland
- Goki Shibukawa (Aiki) = Doppo Orochi
- Baki Hanma = Retsu Kaioh
- Baki Hanma (Hanma Blood Awakening) > Retsu Kaioh
- Jack Hanma > Goki Shibukawa
- Jack Hanma > Kureha Shinogi (Jack holds Kureha by sheer force without making any effort at all)
- Baki Hanma = Jack Hanma
- Jack Hanma (Maxing) > Baki Hanma
- Jack Hanma (Maxing) > Kureha Shinogi
- Baki Hanma (Demon Back) > Jack Hanma (Maxing)
- Yujiro Hanma > Jack Hanma (Maxing)
- Most Evil Death Row Convicts Saga
- Retsu Kaioh = Katsumi Orochi
- Dorian Kaioh > Katsumi Orochi
- Sikorsky (Finger cutter) > Taetoka
- Sikorsky (Finger cutter) > Kanji Igari
- Dorian Kaioh (Equipment) > Doppo Orochi
- Sikorsky > Kanji Igari
- Kaoru Hanayama > Speck
- Dorian Kaioh > Kiyosumi Kato
- Dorian Kaioh > Atsushi Suedo
- Dorian Kaioh > Katsumi Orochi (Constantly depicted as superior to Katsumi Orochi, Katsumi had to use the Quadruple Median Line Strike, his second strongest attack to injure him)
- Doppo Orochi > Dorian Kaioh
- Dorian Kaioh (Explosive) > Doppo Orochi
- Baki Hanma = Sikorsky
- Biscuit Oliva > Baki Hanma (Baki's attacks did nothing to Oliva)
- Biscuit Oliva > Sikorsky
- Biscuit Oliva > Sikorsky (Finger cutter) (Sikorsky did no damage to oliva with the finger cutter)
- Biscuit Oliva > Hector Doyle
- Goki Shibukawa (Aiki) = Biscuit Oliva
- Hector Doyle (Spring punch) > Shinogi Kosho
- Hector Doyle (Explosives) > Shinogi Kosho
- Retsu Kaioh > Hector Doyle
- Doppo Orochi > Hector Doyle
- Baki Hanma > Sikorsky
- Baki Hanma > Ryuko Yanagi
- Ryuko Yanagi (Katana) > Hector Doyle (Would have cut Doyle in half if there was no metal in his arms)
- Jack Hanma > Sikorsky
- Izo Motobe (Equipment) > Ryuko Yanagi
- Gaia > Sikorsky
- Yujiro Hanma > Ryuko Yanagi
- Biscuit Oliva > Hector Doyle
- Great Chinese Challenge Saga
- Mohammed Ali Jr > Dave
- George Foreman = Mohammed Ali (Prime)
- Retsu Kaioh > Baki Hanma (Sick)
- Baki Hanma (Sick) > Yo Cho
- Ryu Kaioh = Dorian Kaioh (Ryu should be at least as strong as the most powerful kaioh, being perceived as the strongest of all)
- Yujiro Hanma > Ryu Kaioh
- Mohammed Ali Jr > Jo Kaioh
- Baki Hanma (Sick) = Lee Kaioh
- Yujiro Hanma > Samwon Kaioh
- Dorian Kaioh > Yoh Kaioh (Dorian didn't take any damage from yoh's attacks even though we can see the opposite, as yoh himself says)
- Biscuit Oliva > Yoh Kaioh
- Jyaku Kaioh > Chin Kaioh (Didn't take any damage from Chin's attack and defeated him very easily without hurting him)
- Yujiro Hanma > Baki Hanma
- Retsu Kaioh > Son Kaioh
- Han Kaioh > Mo Kaioh (Kaku considered that Han, Shunsei and Ron were better than Mo)
- Shunsei Kaku > Mo Kaioh (Kaku considered that Han, Shunsei and Ron were better than Mo)
- Ron Shobun > Mo Kaioh (Kaku considered that Han, Shunsei and Ron were better than Mo)
- Biscuit Oliva > Ron Shobun
- Shunsei Kaku = Han Kaioh (Shunsei attacked and Han blocked)
- Baki Hanma > Shunsei Kaku
- Retsu Kaioh = Jyaku Kaioh
- Mohammed Ali Jr > Han Kaioh
- Kaku Kaioh (Shaori) = Yujiro Hanma
- Yujiro Hanma (Demon Back) > Kaku Kaioh (Shaori)
- Godlike Clash of the Kids Saga
- Doppo Orochi > Mohammed Ali Jr
- Jack Hanma > Mohammed Ali Jr
- Mohammed Ali Jr > Mohammed Ali (Old) (Junior defeated his father 5 years ago but we don't know how it happened)
- Mohammed Ali (Prime) > Kanji Igari
- Baki Hanma > Mohammed Ali Jr
- Great Prison Battle Saga
- Biscuit Oliva > Baki Hanma (Baki's attack did nothing to Oliva)
- Che Guevara > Iron Michael (Iron Michael says he's not even in the top 10 at the prison)
- Baki Hanma > Iron Michael (Baki pushes in pilons in two hits and michael in 3)
- The Mouth (Teamwork) > Iron Michael
- Che Guevara > The Mouth (Teamwork) (Guevara does not take damage from the mouth)
- Che Guevara > The Mouth (One shot the members individually)
- Biscuit Oliva > Che Guevara
- Biscuit Oliva > Baki Hanma (Baki's attack did nothing to Oliva)
- Biscuit Oliva (The Ball) > Baki Hanma (Demon Back)
- Biscuit Oliva (The Ball) > Baki Hanma (Demon Back) (Gotaijutsu)
- Baki Hanma (Demon Back) = Biscuit Oliva
- Pickle Wars Saga
- Pickle (Not serious) > Retsu Kaioh
- Pickle > Retsu Kaioh
- Pickle (Not serious) = Kaoru Hanayama
- Pickle (Not serious) > Katsumi Orochi
- Katsumi Orochi (Hitless blow) = Pickle (Hurt Pickle with his attacks and repelled his serious attack completely)
- Jack Hanma > Pickle (Not serious) (Convinced Pickle to go all out with two attacks)
- Pickle > Jack Hanma
- Pickle > Baki Hanma
- Tyrannosaure > Pickle (Forced Pickle to invent his transformation)
- Pickle (Transformation) > Baki Hanma
- Warrior's Struggle Saga
- Retsu Kaioh > Mani Akio
- Retsu Kaioh > Garry
- Garry > Mani Akio (The coach says that an heavy boxer would not be the same delusion as with Mani)
- Andrei Valev > Garry (The coach said that a champion was even stronger)
- Retsu Kaioh > Andrei Valev
- Retsu Kaioh = Joe Frazier
- Baki Hanma > Chiharu Shiba
- Usain Bolt > Retsu Kaioh (Retsu can't remove his arm from Usain Bolt)
- Strongest Father and Child Quarrel Saga
- Yujiro Hanma = Baki Hanma
- Baki Hanma = Pickle
- Yujiro Hanma (Demon Back) = Baki Hanma (Demon Back)
- Yuichiro Hanma = Yujiro Hanma (Is presented as an equal to Yujiro)
- Yujiro Hanma (Demon Back) (Dress) > Baki Hanma (Demon Back)
- Baki-Dou
- Baki Hanma > Sam Pierre Atlas
- Yujiro Hanma > Kaoru Hanayama
- Musashi Miyamoto > Sabukyo Ichiro
- Musashi Miyamoto (NUN) > Baki Hanma
- Musashi Miyamoto > Doppo Orochi
- Musashi Miyamoto > Retsu Kaioh (Retsu can't do any damage to Musashi)
- Musashi Miyamoto (Katanas and serious) = Yujiro Hanma (Demon Back)
- Musashi Miyamoto (Katanas and serious) > Izo Motobe
- Izo Motobe > Gaia
- Izo Motobe (Equipment) = Jack Hanma
- Musashi Miyamoto = Pickle
- Musashi Miyamoto = Pickle
- Musashi Miyamoto > Izo Motobe
- Musashi Miyamoto > Izo Motobe (Equipment)
- Musashi Miyamoto = Kaoru Hanayama
- Musashi Miyamoto (Katanas and serious) > Kaoru Hanayama
- Musashi Miyamoto = Baki Hanma
- Bakidou
- Nomi no Sukune > Taima no Kehaya
- Doppo Orochi > Kiyosumi Kato
- Doppo Orochi > Kiyosumi Kato
- Nomi no Sukune II > Biscuit Oliva
- Nomi no Sukune II > Nomi no Sukune (Sukune 2 has managed to go further than sukune 1 in the transformation of coal)
- Baki Hanma > Nomi no Sukune II (Put sukune ko in one blow without being serious)
- Reiho > Iwanami Chaos
- Honoo > Kainuma Fumiya
- Kyogei > Inoda Kanon
- Taketsurugi > Kuwata Takumi
- Shachihoko > Aaron Murase
- Reiho = Kyogei (The chairman implies that he is as strong as kyogei)
- Shishimaru = Kyogei (The chairman implies that he is as strong as kyogei)
- Kyogei > Honoo (The chairman implies that he is weaker than Kyogei)
- Kyogei > Taketsurugi (The chairman implies that he is weaker than Kyogei)
- Kyogei > Shachihoko (The chairman implies that he is weaker than Kyogei)
- Shishimaru > Miyairi Rekizo
- Kyogei = Goki Shibukawa (Aiki)
- Doppo Orochi = Taketsurugi
- Kaoru Hanayama > Shachihoko
- Shishimaru > Katsumi Orochi
- Katsumi Orochi (Hitless blow) > Shishimaru
- Katsumi Orochi (Retsu's possession) = Shishimaru
- Baki Hanma > Honoo (Honoo's attacks have no effect on Baki)
- Nomi no Sukune II > Reiho
- Yujiro Hanma > Nomi no Sukune II
- Jack Hanma = Nomi no Sukune II
- Yujiro Hanma > Taima no Kehaya the 101th
- Doppo Orochi > Taima no Kehaya the 101th
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Pretty good but I gotta disagree that Baki was weaker than Pickle
In terms of fighting prowess Baki dominated the entire Pickle match even when he went DNA back even using him to train
He only lost because he wanted to beat him in pure Physical strength which he couldn't
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I mean...Baki WAS weaker than Pickle. From what I read the poster was only referring to physical strength. Which Pickle definitely dominated Baki in.
Baki only ever managed to gain the upperhand due to his techniques and skill, he was inferior, statwise.
Baki only ever managed to gain the upperhand due to his techniques and skill, he was inferior, statwise.
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This is referring to fighting strength otherwise Baki wouldn't be equal to Yujiro or Musashi or Olivia or ETC
You get the point
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The response is in the post. ^^
"I have a list of all the physical strength comparisons in the main series."
When you gauge AP, you gauge destruction capacity and nothing else. Many profiles ignore this and place only according to who would win a fight against whom. What we should also correct.
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- Thread starter
- #382
Very strongly agree with this.
So many martial artists gain levels by defeating stronger opponents, although they simply hit weak points or use the enemy’s strength against him.
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Musashi's durability in particular is very plastic. Musashi was affected by attacks from characters he was himself able to one-shot, like Retsu just as much as with Pickle for instance. (Even though the concept of a plastic durability is kinda strange in itself.)
But yes, Hana doesn't have the same strength at the beginning when he faces Yujiro and when he faces Musashi himself at the end. He's also the only one who can one-shot his sumo.
I think itagaki has finished dealing with the power creep that his series had for a while and that for him, since Baki has reached Yujiro, everyone has the same level except those two, his characters just have different gimics and Hana's gimic happen to be that he has an overwhelming strength.
But yes, Hana doesn't have the same strength at the beginning when he faces Yujiro and when he faces Musashi himself at the end. He's also the only one who can one-shot his sumo.
I think itagaki has finished dealing with the power creep that his series had for a while and that for him, since Baki has reached Yujiro, everyone has the same level except those two, his characters just have different gimics and Hana's gimic happen to be that he has an overwhelming strength.
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If that's how your judging it then it's still wrong
Baki was able to take a full power hit from DNA pickle with little damage
He then counter attacks with attacks that damaged pickle far more than he did to Baki
The only area Pickle is superior to Baki in is in physical strength
AP goes to Baki
Speed Goes to Baki
Skill of course goes to Baki
Like I said the only reason he lost is because he decided to forgo everything in order to Beat Pickle in a test of strength which he is inferior to leading to him losing
In terms of AP I'm unsure currently
However if we Judge by the Yujiro fight Baki is far superior to Hanayama due to him causing far more damage to Yujiro than Hanayama ever did with his strongest attacks
However Hana in his Musashi fight overcame Musashi's grip strength, Something Baki and even Pickle couldn't do
RN it's Baki < Pickle =< Musahsi (Grip strength)< Hanayama<Yujiro
For being a Top Tier Baki is kinda low on the LS scales
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Exactly.
Baki tanked a full attack from Pickle and then commented that Pickle was indeed stronger than him. AP reflects the energy in joules that a character is able to release in a single attack, completely ignoring technique, target points, opponent's endurance, efficiency, etc. And thus, we're not measuring AP by how much damage a character took from an attack. Even through it happens to usually be a good indicator in shonens. This is not the criteria. Baki and Pickle's fight is a good example of why.
There is no magic in Baki, if Pickle is physically superior to him, Pickle has an higher AP, for if both of their fists were to collide in a single front attack, Pickle would win. His blows are able to release more raw energy than those of Baki.
You're mixing up all those concepts here.
Baki tanked a full attack from Pickle and then commented that Pickle was indeed stronger than him. AP reflects the energy in joules that a character is able to release in a single attack, completely ignoring technique, target points, opponent's endurance, efficiency, etc. And thus, we're not measuring AP by how much damage a character took from an attack. Even through it happens to usually be a good indicator in shonens. This is not the criteria. Baki and Pickle's fight is a good example of why.
There is no magic in Baki, if Pickle is physically superior to him, Pickle has an higher AP, for if both of their fists were to collide in a single front attack, Pickle would win. His blows are able to release more raw energy than those of Baki.
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Damn, we don't really have a single 8-C feat for the middle tiers.
It amuses me how the verse that many fans position as "Kengan-Slayer", "City level", "S-class hero tier" ends up with nothing above 9-A except 2 god-tiers feats.
Scaling the keys of the rest of the characters will look ridiculously funny
It amuses me how the verse that many fans position as "Kengan-Slayer", "City level", "S-class hero tier" ends up with nothing above 9-A except 2 god-tiers feats.
Scaling the keys of the rest of the characters will look ridiculously funny
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Bro THANK YOU!! i'm a huge fan of both and never understood why people downplay kengan like its not on Baki verse level. Raian literally ripped his cousin in half with his bare hands. I always considered them similarly scaled
I will try to look for building level feats for mid tiers to help since there is limited eyes on this
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If that was the case in this verse then Baki would not be stronger than Jack, Oliva, Pickle ,Hanayama, Arguably Musashi, and equal to Yujiro
This verse just like all others has seperate AP and LS values
Characters can be stronger than others with not hitting as hard
The Yujiro fight literally proves this so I don't know why your trying to debate this
Pickle is superior in LS ONLY
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Latest chapter has Biscuit being > Nomi in strength so you might wanna adjust that.
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- Thread starter
- #394
I just watched the fight between Baki and Pickle.
Baki started dealing serious damage only when he started using techniques and shaking Pickle's Brain. When it came to sheer brute strength, Hanma was knocked out
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Nope, and sorry if it sounds petty, but I'm not arguing on that, it's clearly obvious enough that Pickle's only defining trait in that fight is that he's physically incomparable to Baki but that Baki have technique to make up, sorry. ^^'
Sure, when the fight will be over, we're still at the beginning currently. ^^
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We need approval from moderators
Right now it seem that we are agreeing on "8-B, Possibly far higher" for the top tiers no?
Speed will be handled in a separate thread (Though it's likely gonna be Supersonic+)
And LS get's negged down to Class K for top tiers
We still need to find out if the Demon Back even has a multiplier and if it's enough of a multiplier to get 8-B+
That's what we have so far
If anyone disagrees please state your stance now so we can discuss
Right now it seem that we are agreeing on "8-B, Possibly far higher" for the top tiers no?
Speed will be handled in a separate thread (Though it's likely gonna be Supersonic+)
And LS get's negged down to Class K for top tiers
We still need to find out if the Demon Back even has a multiplier and if it's enough of a multiplier to get 8-B+
That's what we have so far
If anyone disagrees please state your stance now so we can discuss
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- Thread starter
- #399
Could you call the moderators and Antvasima through the message wall please?
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I will but bring up that chart you had earlier of all the debunked calcs and new calcs
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