Baki verse downgrade

[NikHelton]

Supersonic

Old calcs:	New calcs:
Yujiro stops a earthquake (7-C)	- (Debanced)
Yujiro shakes the skyscraper (8-A)	New calculation using vibration (High 8-C)
Baki shakes city block (8-B+)	Same method, but using a suitable magnitude (8-B)
Yujiro tanks a lightning (High 8-C)​	Lowered using 1 second instead of 5, in the comments of the same blog (8-С+)
Doyle explodes Katsumi (9-A)	Using any of the first three ends (9-B+/9-A)
Nomi no Sukune II crush Coal into a diamond (Class M)	It is recognized as unsuitable for calculation and is an outlier. Lowered to the "100 tons" declared by the manga (Class K)
Sikorsky dodges a bullet (Transonic)	- (Debanced)
Doyle dodges a bullet (Supersonic)	- (Debanced)
Yujiro dodges lightning (Massively Hypersonic)	- (Debanced)

Musashi attempts a blitz (Hypersonic+)	Supersonic+ combat and reaction speed (incorrect period. In the original it was indicated that the analysis of the information took 0.000... seconds, not movement)
-	Yujiro catches an arrow (Supersonic)

 

[Antvasima]

What are the staff conclusions here so far?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I don't mind the changes.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

What are the staff conclusions here so far?

Well Sir_Ovens said he was fine with the changes

 

[KLOL506]

Seems fine at a glance from the looks of it.

 

[NikHelton]

Nope, and sorry if it sounds petty, but I'm not arguing on that, it's clearly obvious enough that Pickle's only defining trait in that fight is that he's physically incomparable to Baki but that Baki have technique to make up, sorry. ^^'


Sure, when the fight will be over, we're still at the beginning currently. ^^

Could you please create the same table for character scaling with the new data please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/baki-strength-crt-round-2.119436/#post-3918980

 

[Kerr5]

Could you please create the same table for character scaling with the new data please?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/baki-strength-crt-round-2.119436/#post-3918980

Using this logic characters that can hurt Yujiro, but aren't comparable in any way (like begining of Dou Hanayama) should upscale from the lightning bolt up to High 8-C instead of downscaling from 8-B

This will make Mid Tiers 8-C/8-C+ and low end High 8-C, actually using this Doppo will probably be 8-C, and that will also make Jack, Raitai Baki and Ali Jr 8-C.
This makes sense considering Retsu said Jack became ten times stronger than him (9-A) I don't agree with Baki peaking at 8-B+ but honestly this makes the verse so much easier to powerscale.

All you have to do is make a scaling chain with the 1.912 tons value with all those characters who downscale from characters who downscale from characters who downscale...

 

[NikHelton]

Using this logic characters that can hurt Yujiro, but aren't comparable in any way (like begining of Dou Hanayama) should upscale from the lightning bolt up to High 8-C instead of downscaling from 8-B

This will make Mid Tiers 8-C/8-C+ and low end High 8-C, actually using this Doppo will probably be 8-C, and that will also make Jack, Raitai Baki and Ali Jr 8-C.
This makes sense considering Retsu said Jack became ten times stronger than him (9-A) I don't agree with Baki peaking at 8-B+ but honestly this makes the verse so much easier to powerscale.

All you have to do is make a scaling chain with the 1.912 tons value with all those characters who downscale from characters who downscale from characters who downscale...

Hanayama scales exactly as he came close to killing Musashi.

Lightning is rated 8-C+, not High 8-C.

Baki is also 8-B, not 8-B+

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Just saying, SOO onwards will see a bunch of dudes downscale from Baki and Yujiro, including Pickle, Musashi, Retsu, and anyone who scales.

This means the random boxer that could hurt Retsu and the rando sumo in Dou II also downscale from Baki and Yujiro.

 

[NikHelton]

Just saying, SOO onwards will see a bunch of dudes downscale from Baki and Yujiro, including Pickle, Musashi, Retsu, and anyone who scales.

This means the random boxer that could hurt Retsu and the rando sumo in Dou II also downscale from Baki and Yujiro.

I'll tell you more - a random wrestler beat Yuichiro to bruises when he succumbed

 

[Antvasima]

Well Sir_Ovens said he was fine with the changes

Yes, and KLOL506 as well. Have any other staff members commented here?

 

[Kerr5]

Hanayama scales exactly as he came close to killing Musashi.

Lightning is rated 8-C+, not High 8-C.

Baki is also 8-B, not 8-B+

Lightning: 1.912 Tons Didn't anything to Yujiro.
Hanayama (begining of Dou 1): Made Yujiro bleed. He upscales pretty above the lightning which is already close to High 8-C by ~1.046x

Also Musashi is constantly shown to have a low durability in relation to his AP (Even Retsu can severely damage him)

The truth is, there's massive differences between characters and everyone being 8-B makes no sense, so the best we can do about Mid Tiers is downscaling them from Yujiro's durability:
8-C for weaker mid Tiers
8-C+ for stronger ones
High 8-C for the strongest Mid Tiers

And we already have a very good scaling point for them: Doppo... And a ton of other characters but Doppo is relevant for Begining of SoO base Baki, who is relevant for a ton of characters (You get the idea)

 

[NikHelton]

Could you upload a picture showing the effects of lightning on Yujiro

 

[Kerr5]

Also there's a ton of feats which needs to be calculated.

Retsu destroying Obsidian.
Oliva's Shockwave when he slaps Guevaru.
A ton of shaking feats like Sukune's one.

Bakiverse scaling is pretty weird so the best we can do is calc every possible feat for every possible character.

 

[Antvasima]

Have any other staff members commented here?

If not, I might be able to help if somebody explains what needs to be evaluated here in an easy to understand manner.

 

[NikHelton]

Also there's a ton of feats which needs to be calculated.

Retsu destroying Obsidian.
Oliva's Shockwave when he slaps Guevaru.
A ton of shaking feats like Sukune's one.

Bakiverse scaling is pretty weird so the best we can do is calc every possible feat for every possible character.

Could you show these feats?

 

[Kerr5]

Could you show these feats?

I don't remember the chapter nor do i have the scans, all i remember is the context, if you want the scans you'll have to wait

Edit: Anyways i think i'll talk more about this in the Baki general discussion thread AFTER all of this gets accepted. Or i'll just make CRTs + calc blogs

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Lightning: 1.912 Tons Didn't anything to Yujiro.
Hanayama (begining of Dou 1): Made Yujiro bleed. He upscales pretty above the lightning which is already close to High 8-C by ~1.046x

Also Musashi is constantly shown to have a low durability in relation to his AP (Even Retsu can severely damage him)

The truth is, there's massive differences between characters and everyone being 8-B makes no sense, so the best we can do about Mid Tiers is downscaling them from Yujiro's durability:
8-C for weaker mid Tiers
8-C+ for stronger ones
High 8-C for the strongest Mid Tiers

And we already have a very good scaling point for them: Doppo... And a ton of other characters but Doppo is relevant for Begining of SoO base Baki, who is relevant for a ton of characters (You get the idea)

Okay it's been a while since I read OG Grappler Baki and New Grappler Baki

At what point do characters start scaling above the 9-A feat?

I agree with everything else

Also yes, we are not downscaling everyone directly to 8-B

Using this logic characters that can hurt Yujiro, but aren't comparable in any way (like begining of Dou Hanayama) should upscale from the lightning bolt up to High 8-C instead of downscaling from 8-B

This will make Mid Tiers 8-C/8-C+ and low end High 8-C, actually using this Doppo will probably be 8-C, and that will also make Jack, Raitai Baki and Ali Jr 8-C.
This makes sense considering Retsu said Jack became ten times stronger than him (9-A) I don't agree with Baki peaking at 8-B+ but honestly this makes the verse so much easier to powerscale.

All you have to do is make a scaling chain with the 1.912 tons value with all those characters who downscale from characters who downscale from characters who downscale...

Could you link the chapter where this multiplier was stated?
That way we could verify if it's legit

Also could we use this to scale other characters as well to this 10x 9-A Jack or is it lower than the current value everyone would scale to?


Also someone should very quickly make a re-calc using the correct timeframe so we don't have to sift through the comments to find the value

 

[Huesito88]

Are we still

Also there's a ton of feats which needs to be calculated.

Retsu destroying Obsidian.
Oliva's Shockwave when he slaps Guevaru.
A ton of shaking feats like Sukune's one.

Bakiverse scaling is pretty weird so the best we can do is calc every possible feat for every possible character.

Someone should Calc Guevaru's dream earth core feat for the lol's

Do we still accept the on panel statement of Yujiro tanking the full lightning bolt yield?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Are we still

Someone should Calc Guevaru's dream earth core feat for the lol's

Do we still accept the on panel statement of Yujiro tanking the full lightning bolt yield?

The lightning feat stays it's just lower now at 1.92 tons

And yeah those feats need to be calced

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I never liked the idea of downscaling the high and mid-high tiers from the lightning feat because Yujiro is clearly far stronger than the feat and doesn't have a variable durability. There's 0 reason why they should scale to some random feat Yujiro performs casually rather than just massively downscaling from his normal AP.

 

[Antvasima]

I trust Sir_Ovens' sense of judgement here.

 

[Kerr5]

At what point do characters start scaling above the 9-A feat?

After Ali Jr saga.
Jack - 8-C+
Ali JR - 8-C
Base Baki - High 8-C
Scaling from Doppo.

Everyone before the Raitai saga stays at 9-A considering Dorian got brutally owned by Doppo and he's comparable to Retsu.

Also Maximum Tournament Jack probably doesn't scale either.

Could you link the chapter where this multiplier was stated?

I don't remember which one but it was at the death row immate saga when they meet each other.
For further confirmation the manga says that such a skilled fighter like Retsu would never be wrong about something like that.

I never liked the idea of downscaling the high and mid-high tiers from the lightning feat because Yujiro is clearly far stronger than the feat and doesn't have a variable durability. There's 0 reason why they should scale to some random feat Yujiro performs casually rather than just massively downscaling from his normal AP.

The thing is, in Baki there's a ton of times when a character hurt other or make him bleed but is far weaker, just like Shiba and Baki, or Guevaru and Mouth, so unless you think that Mouth are 8-B we should accept that durability doesn't work that way in the Bakiverse.
I recommend using this for characters who can hurt Yujiro but are far weaker, or those who downscale from characters who downscale from characters who downscale...

Also there's nothing indicating everyone became 8-B, but they suddenly were able to move Pickle or Even hurt him like Jack.
Jack going from 8-C+ to High 8-C makes much more sense than Jack going from 9-A to 8-B.
Same for Retsu and Katsumi
9-A > 8-C/+

 

[Kerr5]

Someone should Calc Guevaru's dream earth core feat for the lol's

I calced it a long time ago and it was Low 5-B
Maybe we should make a dream Guevaru key and... Finally... Bakiverse vs DBZ

 

[Huesito88]

Then Yujiro should scale to dream Guevaru as Guevaru thought it was silly to be stronger than Yujiro by that point despite preforming said feat

The Baki Universe has some notion of real life world chip damage. Which is something that we assume not to be the case when dealing with fictional universes.

 

[Kerr5]

The Baki Universe has some notion of real life world chip damage. Which is something that we assume not to be the case when dealing with fictional universes.

Yes, exactly, that's precisely the problem with making everybody 8-B, Itagaki is a martial artist, that's why he knows about those details.

Just like in real life, in the Bakiverse someone hurting another person is not equal to being just as strong.

That's why hurting Yujiro or similar should make you upscale from the lightning bolt instead of just making you 8-B, since we have solid proof that hurting him requires at least more than 1.912 Tons of TNT

 

[Antvasima]

What is the consensus here so far, and which staff members have commented here?

If somebody writes an easy to understand explanation post regarding what is suggested here and why, I might be able to get some more staff members interested in evaluating this thread.

 

[Kerr5]

What is the consensus here so far, and which staff members have commented here?

If somebody writes an easy to understand explanation post regarding what is suggested here and why, I might be able to get some more staff members interested in evaluating this thread.

Regarding High Tiers:

• 7-C earthquake has been debunked
• Baki shaking feat is now ~15 Tons instead of 84.8
• Yujiro's shaking feat is now High 8-C (3.27 Tons)
• Yujiro's lightning feat is now 8-C+ (1.912 Tons) (Read first comment)

Regarding Mid Tiers:

• Since bakiverse durability doesn't work like in most fictional verses, characters who can hurt Yujiro but are far weaker than him will upscale from lightning which didn't have any effect on him (8-C+/Baseline High 8-C)
• Characters who downscale from them will be 8-C/+

And i'd like to add: Characters far weaker than end of SoO Base Baki like Oliva (Who used to be far Below Sukune who is far Below base Baki) should likely be High 8-C+, since Base Baki is pretty close to Baseline 8-B

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

MonkeyOfLife isnt the most reliable translator.

Wtf... All I do is extract the texts and use deepl

which from what I remember has been similar to arc translations but yee it's still always better to be safe tho

 

[Kerr5]

I'm thinking on making a CRT dedicated to the new scaling chain right after all of this gets accepted, just like the one CuddleFox did (since he seems to be occupied right now)

 

[NikHelton]

I'm thinking on making a CRT dedicated to the new scaling chain right after all of this gets accepted, just like the one CuddleFox did (since he seems to be occupied right now)

All calculations are accepted and you can create a new thread. It would be nice if in the table you also indicated the scaling of the new speed and LS

 

[Kerr5]

All calculations are accepted and you can create a new thread. It would be nice if in the table you also indicated the scaling of the new speed and LS

I think speed is a way more complicated subject in the Bakiverse since it is even more inconsistent than AP, i think it deserves a CRT on it's own.

LS will be easier to powerscale since 90% of the job is just changing Class M > Class K

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I think speed is a way more complicated subject in the Bakiverse since it is even more inconsistent than AP, i think it deserves a CRT on it's own.

LS will be easier to powerscale since 90% of the job is just changing Class M > Class K

Yeah speed can get it's own CRT

RN lets gets AP scaling and LS out of the way

By the way I appreciate you doing all this Kerr, Idn if you can tell but it has been quite a while since I read the earlier Baki series's

 

[Kerr5]

Yeah speed can get it's own CRT

RN lets gets AP scaling and LS out of the way

By the way I appreciate you doing all this Kerr, Idn if you can tell but it has been quite a while since I read the earlier Baki series's

Yeah but my scaling chain will be centered on Son of Ogre, Dou I, Dou II, and maybe Raitai saga

The Main reason for this is that characters from Maximum Tournament and Death row immate saga have a ton of feats which needs to be calculated to properly scale them

 

[CuddleFox]

Could you please create the same table for character scaling with the new data please?

Nope, took a month to do.

 

[Kerr5]

Nope, took a month to do.

Don't worry i'm working on something like that, but i realized: since Yujiro became much stronger we can't scale Doppo to 8-C+ so i'm calculating a shaking Yujiro did at the Maximum Tournament.

Do you know other feats for Maximum Tournament Yujiro which can be scaled to Doppo?

 

[CuddleFox]

I posted a complete list of all the feats from the beginning of the series to SOO on page 3 or 4. You can take feats from there I guess.

Don't worry i'm working on something like that

I've also been working on a giga-tier list of my own since a few days. ^^

 

[Kerr5]

I posted a complete list of all the feats from the beginning of the series to SOO on page 3 or 4. You can take feats from there I guess.

Thx i'll check it out.
And after that i'll look for someone who explain to me how to calc Retsu's Obsidian feat since i think that will give higher results for Maximum Tournament and NGB

 

[CuddleFox]

What is that obsidian feat exactly? I don't recall something like that.

 

[Kerr5]

What is that obsidian feat exactly? I don't recall something like that.

I don't remember the chapter but i think it was during Baki vs Retsu, they show that Retsu broke a huge ball of Obsidian which was bigger than a person.