Bakasta vs the stick swinger

[Arnoldstone18]

Reid's first move is definitely to swing his sword excitedly since Asta is so strong.

He does have skill based precog that works such that if someone is less skilled then he can see all future attacks as white lines in the air, and he will be able to see their weaknesses and path to victory that will lead to his sword killing his enemy, but if his opponent is more skilled than him the lines of attack become blurry/broken.

Reid can also easily see Asta from the 4km away and cut him from that distance, while Asta would need to transform into Devil Union order to gain a range of kilometres.

Has there been an instance of Reid cutting someone from far out? I asked if he needed to make contact with Asta earlier and I got a different answer. I also checked his page and his kilometers of range is “likely”. So how does Reid cut Asta without needing contact.

Also, Asta transforming to PDU would allow him to easily dodge whatever Reid throws at him. Asta is also resistant to precognition via his skill by throwing off senses and not letting his life force be read (he assimilated this skill from Kiato and has refined it all the way till now). Has anyone in Re:Zero resisted this form of Ki based precog via sheer skill?

Saying that Reid has to hit him is not exactly accurate since Reinhard and Reid essentially create mana lasers that destroy space when they "cut" stuff.

Oh Reid does use magic.
Anti Magic will deal with the lasers or Asta just dodges.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Has there been an instance of Reid cutting someone from far out? I asked if he needed to make contact with Asta earlier and I got a different answer. I also checked his page and his kilometers of range is “likely”. So how does Reid cut Asta without needing contact.

Also, Asta transforming to PDU would allow him to easily dodge whatever Reid throws at him. Asta is also resistant to precognition via his skill by throwing off senses and not letting his life force be read (he assimilated this skill from Kiato and has refined it all the way till now). Has anyone in Re:Zero resisted this form of Ki based precog via sheer skill?

ReZero has multi layered Precog chain also mid tier characters like Elsa can accurately target vitals while all of her senses have been cut off via sheer skill alone, Wilhelm can attack the invisible hands which have no aura, no presence and cannot be detected by the 5 senses and this is the old version well past his prime.
For the precog chain
Elsa<Garfiel<<<Theresia<prime wilhelm<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Reid

Oh Reid does use magic.
Anti Magic will deal with the lasers or Asta just dodges.

Reid doesnt use magic, his attacks are long ranged cuts. Its like how Yami's dimensional slash works but its not mana thats been used and just his sword slash

 

[Fezzih_007]

Reid's first move is definitely to swing his sword excitedly since Asta is so strong.

Ok, i think we all agreed with that, yeah.
Reid would probally be asshole first trought, but he would want to fight a strong opponent.

He does have skill based precog that works such that if someone is less skilled then he can see all future attacks as white lines in the air, and he will be able to see their weaknesses and path to victory that will lead to his sword killing his enemy, but if his opponent is more skilled than him the lines of attack become blurry/broken.

I don't remember now, but what If the opponent have equal skill?

Reid can also easily see Asta from the 4km away and cut him from that distance, while Asta would need to transform into Devil Union order to gain a range of kilometres.

Clássic, making two swordman fight, and making them star distance 4km away

Ok, and you don't think Reid would want to fight Asta? Like, that's as your first comment, why Reid would one shot instead of wanting to fight Asta?
And Asta can just dodge.

 

[Zabazab]

Has there been an instance of Reid cutting someone from far out? I asked if he needed to make contact with Asta earlier and I got a different answer. I also checked his page and his kilometers of range is “likely”. So how does Reid cut Asta without needing contact.

Cecilus, who is a far far weaker and less skilled swordsman than Reid is able to cut clouds apart while sitting on the ground.

Reinhard who is the only swordsman on Reid's level is able to kill people flying at cloud-level from the ground as his sword-slash travels as "a flash of light".

Also, Asta transforming to PDU would allow him to easily dodge whatever Reid throws at him. Asta is also resistant to precognition via his skill by throwing off senses and not letting his life force be read (he assimilated this skill from Kiato and has refined it all the way till now). Has anyone in Re:Zero resisted this form of Ki based precog via sheer skill?

Far far inferior swordsmen such as Wilhelm are able to precog layered invisible danmaku that cannot be sensed, just by watching their opponent. Sword Saints' precog abilities function in a way that it is resisted by more skilled swordsmen, and as Reid is the most skilled in his verse he can precog and resist the precog of any warrior in it.

I do not believe he has resisted divination-type precog.

Oh Reid does use magic.
Anti Magic will deal with the lasers.

It isn't magic since Reinhard, a man who was born with a condition that means he is incapable of releasing mana from his body- as well as being rejected by all 6 magic affinities, is able to use this sword beam.

It can be speculated to be related to mana, but nothing is known beyond it being a "flash of light".

 

[Fezzih_007]

Reid doesnt use magic, his attacks are long ranged cuts. Its like how Yami's dimensional slash works but its not mana thats been used and just his sword slash

Can you show me scans of him attacking from a distance with his sword? I trying to find here, but i don't remember the chapter.

 

[Tatsumi504]

I'll play devil's advocate here and let y'all know their precog resistance doesn't come into play here since it's based on different mechanisms. Both are still capable of reading the other

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ok, i think we all agreed with that, yeah.
Reid would probally be asshole first trought, but he would want to fight a strong opponent.

I don't remember now, but what If the opponent have equal skill?

Clássic, making two swordman fight, and making them star distance 4km away

Ok, and you don't think Reid would want to fight Asta? Like, that's as your first comment, why Reid would one shot instead of wanting to fight Asta?
And Asta can just dodge.

Before people start spamming how Reid is an arrogant fool who will try to prolong the fight or something stupid like that, he immediately went into battle mode when put up against people of similar level like Satella(arc 6) and Reinhard(according to wog)

 

[Fezzih_007]

Cecilus, who is a far far weaker and less skilled swordsman than Reid is able to cut clouds apart while sitting on the ground.

Reinhard who is the only swordsman on Reid's level is able to kill people flying at cloud-level from the ground as his sword-slash travels as "a flash of light".

Ah.

It isn't magic since Reinhard, a man who was born with a condition that means he is incapable of releasing mana from his body- as well as being rejected by all 6 magic affinities, is able to use this sword beam.

Emília Said he can take mana from his surrodings to do the energy attack trought. Like, when she was healing Rom with Magic, she said the reason Rein was not going fullpower, is because he would drain the mana from they surrounds, and would make Impossible to Emília uses her Magic.

 

[Zabazab]

Emília Said he can take mana from his surrodings to do the energy attack trought. Like, when she was healing Rom with Magic, she said the reason Rein was not going fullpower, is because he would drain the mana from they surrounds, and would make Impossible to Emília uses her Magic.

Reinhard's physiology means he acts as a beacon for mana, and it blindly follows him and will be absorbed through his Gate (organ for absorbing/releasing mana).

Reinhard's Gate is "broken", and thus he is totally unable to expel mana out of his body, meaning using any magic is out of the question.

Instead he uses the Flow Technique so that the mana in his body is instead used to boost his physical stats. Mana cannot leave Reinhard's body due to the condition of his Gate, it's similar to Subaru's condition (although Reinhard was born with his).

 

[Fezzih_007]

Before people start spamming how Reid is an arrogant fool who will try to prolong the fight or something stupid like that, he immediately went into battle mode when put up against people of similar level like Satella(arc 6) and Reinhard(according to wog)

The Satella fight that is a total a misterious, and no one know How does that goes (who also don't apply to this situation) and the Reinhard fight who is a hyphotetical scenario, that nothing proves that he was serious.

I not saying he will prolong this fight anyway, just saying he will not just one shot.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Reinhard's physiology means he acts as a beacon for mana, and it blindly follows him and will be absorbed through his Gate (organ for absorbing/releasing mana).

Reinhard's Gate is "broken", and thus he is totally unable to expel mana out of his body, meaning using any magic is out of the question.

Instead he uses the Flow Technique so that the mana in his body is instead used to boost his physical stats. Mana cannot leave Reinhard's body due to the condition of his Gate, it's similar to Subaru's condition (although Reinhard was born with his).

Yeah that's true.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The Satella fight that is a total a misterious, and no one know How does that goes (who also don't apply to this situation) and the Reinhard fight who is a hyphotetical scenario, that nothing proves that he was serious.

I not saying he will prolong this fight anyway, just saying he will not just one shot.

I am talking about the ending of arc 6 not the battle that happened 400 yrs ago. Reid instantly got serious and started retaliating against Satella after which he disappeared, implied to go and fight her

 

[Zabazab]

The Satella fight that is a total a misterious, and no one know How does that goes (who also don't apply to this situation) and the Reinhard fight who is a hyphotetical scenario, that nothing proves that he was serious.

Reid vs Satella (both weakened as one was Roy and the other was just a clump of Yin), is in Arc 6 Chapter 69.

"The difficulty [of Arc 6] would actually increase with Reinhard, because Reid will be fighting seriously." is what Tappei said when asked how easy arc 6 would be with Reinhard present.

Sat's point about Reid not fooling around is accurate.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I am talking about the ending of arc 6 not the battle that happened 400 yrs ago. Reid instantly got serious and started retaliating against Satella after which he disappeared, implied to go and fight her

Oh right, that.

Anyway, this is a moot argument anyway, so i gonna drop It.

I think we can vote now right?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Oh right, that.

Anyway, this is a moot argument anyway, so i gonna drop It.

I think we can vote now right?

Yeah

 

[Fezzih_007]

Hmmmm, i reading Asta profile, and said he have spartial Manipulation resistance with Black Asta, but he probally would't use It...
This kinda hard actually.
Gonna give It to Asta? His statitics amplification seems pretty good, If gonna use It immediality.

 

[Zabazab]

I do think Reid just massively outskills in every way, and along with being able to easily one-shot with conceptual cutting, Reid just immediately kills Asta before Asta can kill him.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I do think Reid just massively outskills in every way, and along with being able to easily one-shot with conceptual cutting, Reid just immediately kills Asta before Asta can kill him.

He can't kill him with Conceptual hax Fra.
And the skill is not that far off, looking at the profiles.

 

[Zabazab]

He is stated to have "cut through the atmosphere, space itself, and even concepts." completely effortlessly. His skill is literally to cut whatever he feels like through sheer skill, and there is no reason Asta would be an exception. Just because he later specifically cuts down the concepts of sound and light does not mean he is limited to that, since he is shown to cut through concepts (generally) before being shown cutting light and sound (specifically).

And I ain't gonna sugarcoat it, Asta looks to be at most Peak Wilhelm level, maybe higher. Both due to the insane skill chain that Reid is at the very top of, as well as being able to cut black holes, space-time, and concepts using only a chopstick. Asta frankly has no skill feats on the level of Reid's essentially cheating-level skill.

 

[Fezzih_007]

He is stated to have "cut through the atmosphere, space itself, and even concepts." completely effortlessly. His skill is literally to cut whatever he feels like through sheer skill, and there is no reason Asta would be an exception. Just because he later specifically cuts down the concepts of sound and light does not mean he is limited to that, since he is shown to cut through concepts (generally) before being shown cutting light and sound (specifically).

That still would't give him duraneg, until is shown to cut people. The "cuts concepts" statement just give him things that he shown to cut, his not gonna be cutting this he never shown to. Is one the Conceptual Manipulation page.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I have no problem with Reid being superior to Asta skill wise. I do have a problem with the concept cutting stuff being used on Asta because someone brought to my attention that his opponents have survived a cut from Reid but I won’t go into that rabbit hole rn.

Asta’s presence (probably by elevating fight or flight response idk) causes those with battle instincts to rush towards him for an attack. Reid in character goes for melee attacks with his weapon so this is what is most likely going to happen. Reid’s movement speed is lower than his combat speed, and Asta has a type of precognition that is dissimilar to skill based precog in Re:Zero according to @Tatsumi504 who is very knowledgeable on both. so Asta will easily anticipate Reid going in for an attack.

Asta will then deploy Zetten in such a way that Reid cannot dodge. Reid’s skill based precog is probably useless against those who are completely stationary (unless proven the white lines that show up come from stationary targets) but regardless the attack will be too fast to aim dodge.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

That still would't give him duraneg, until is shown to cut people. The "cuts concepts" statement just give him things that he shown to cut, his not gonna be cutting this he never shown to. Is one the Conceptual Manipulation page.

Yeah it’s on the conceptual manipulation page.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

That still would't give him duraneg, until is shown to cut people. The "cuts concepts" statement just give him things that he shown to cut, his not gonna be cutting this he never shown to. Is one the Conceptual Manipulation page.

He already has space time duraneg via being able to cut Regulus and I dont think Black clover has any Regu level nonsensical space-time hax, not to mention Asta resists spatial manipulation when its been used as magic. Reid doesnt use magic to cut through spaxe and thus should be able to easily bypass his resistance

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He already has space time duraneg via being able to cut Regulus and I dont think Black clover has any Regu level nonsensical space-time hax,

Well we kinda do

 

[Zabazab]

A swing from his chopsticks, specifically the one which was stated to cut concepts, swallowed Julius' cloak and carved a gash into the Pleiades Watchtower, and I do not think Reid is limited to cutting the concepts of cloaks and floors. If it hit Julius it would have killed him. He is stated to cut whatever he feels he can cut.

He also cuts a black hole, which is an impossible task due to its density and gravity. And yet a chopstick is all he needs.

Asta’s presence (probably by elevating fight or flight response idk) causes those with battle instincts to rush towards him for an attack. Reid in character goes for melee attacks with his weapon so this is what is most likely going to happen.

Reid has never fought an opponent who was 4km away so the idea he would want to get in close in is a presumtion. Reid has the eyesight and senses to clearly see Asta from 4km away with pinpoint accuracy.

It is most likely that he, like Reinhard, would swing from 4km away to attack.

Asta has a type of precognition that is dissimilar to skill based precog in Re:Zero according to @Tatsumi504 who is very knowledgeable on both. so Asta will easily anticipate Reid going in for an attack.

If their precog systems are too different then they precog eachother i suppose.

Reid’s skill based precog is probably useless against those who are completely stationary (unless proven the white lines that show up come from stationary targets) but regardless the attack will be too fast to aim dodge.

Why would it be useless against a stationary opponent? Old Wilhelm can tell how the layered invisible danmaku Unseen Hands will attack just by looking at how the air hangs above Petelgeuse.

If either transforming into Devil Union or using Zetten requires any time before it is deployed then it will be exploited by Reid.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I have no problem with Reid being superior to Asta skill wise. I do have a problem with the concept cutting stuff being used on Asta because someone brought to my attention that his opponents have survived a cut from Reid but I won’t go into that rabbit hole rn.

Thats either going to be the nerfed version of Reid when he possesed Roy or Satella/Reinhard

Asta’s presence (probably by elevating fight or flight response idk) causes those with battle instincts to rush towards him for an attack. Reid in character goes for melee attacks with his weapon so this is what is most likely going to happen. Reid’s movement speed is lower than his combat speed, and Asta has a type of precognition that is dissimilar to skill based precog in Re:Zero according to @Tatsumi504 who is very knowledgeable on both. so Asta will easily anticipate Reid going in for an attack.

Asta will then deploy Zetten in such a way that Reid cannot dodge. Reid’s skill based precog is probably useless against those who are completely stationary (unless proven the white lines that show up come from stationary targets) but regardless the attack will be too fast to aim dodge.

Reid doesn't charge his enemies atleast as far as we have seen (unless I am missing something), due to speed equalized both his movement and travel speed are equal, Reid also has a precog which is more layered than Asta's so that would be a counter too.
Finally, sword saints can look at a person and know every conceivable strike they can make and due to Asta having Wilhelm level of skill which is in an unimaginably lower realm of skill. According to Wilhelm, who managed to surpass a sword saints level of skill which has been stated to be impossible to achieve even with multiple lifetimes worth of training, he could never even hope to reach Reinhard's level of skill who Reid scales above in skill.

 

[Fezzih_007]

A swing from his chopsticks, specifically the one which was stated to cut concepts, swallowed Julius' cloak and carved a gash into the Pleiades Watchtower, and I do not think Reid is limited to cutting the concepts of cloaks and floors.

wat?

If it hit Julius it would have killed him. He is stated to cut whatever he feels he can cut.

He also cuts a black hole, which is an impossible task due to its density and gravity. And yet a chopstick is all he needs.

Ok, so you just repeated what you Said before, and add more stuff, so i gonna say It again that that this still don't give him Conceptual Dura neg, this is How the wiki treats It.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Reid has never fought an opponent who was 4km away so the idea he would want to get in close in is a presumtion.

"Reid has never fought an opponent who was 4km away so the idea he would want to attack from a distance is a presumtion"

Also, Reid usually start by going CC, so that's How we gonna treats It.

Reid has the eyesight and senses to clearly see Asta from 4km away with pinpoint accuracy.

I feel like this gonna become my cathphrase when i talk with you, but no one deny that he can see for 4km away, so i don't know what you talking about.

It is most likely that he, like Reinhard, would swing from 4km away to attack.

Based on what, that fight he never started from Far away?

And Asta can just dodge that.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I noticed now that quoting people is kinda rude, so i am Sorry for doing Zabazab.

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I noticed now that quoting people is kinda rude, so i am Sorry for doing Zabazab.

It is not rude unless you spamming it 40 times

i am Sorry

 

[Fezzih_007]

Oh okay, so i take back what i said.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Thats either going to be the nerfed version of Reid when he possesed Roy or Satella/Reinhard

Ill let it slide for now at least

Reid doesn't charge his enemies atleast as far as we have seen (unless I am missing something), due to speed equalized both his movement and travel speed are equal,

Reid doesn't charge at his enemies?

What are all of Reid's fights, Reid vs Rgulus, Reid vs Julius, what else?

Reid also has a precog which is more layered than Asta's so that would be a counter too.

Asta's precog is also layered, but they are differrent types of precog so it doesn't matter how much either of their precogs are layered. Neither can resist the other's precog.

Finally, sword saints can look at a person and know every conceivable strike they can make and due to Asta having Wilhelm level of skill which is in an unimaginably lower realm of skill. According to Wilhelm, who managed to surpass a sword saints level of skill which has been stated to be impossible to achieve even with multiple lifetimes worth of training, he could never even hope to reach Reinhard's level of skill who Reid scales above in skill.

I mean having the knowledge to know every conceivable strike that can, not will, be made isn't totally useless. And this point was unnecessary, especially when i already said I know Reid is superior in skill.

Lets be progressive with our conversations.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

A swing from his chopsticks, specifically the one which was stated to cut concepts, swallowed Julius' cloak and carved a gash into the Pleiades Watchtower, and I do not think Reid is limited to cutting the concepts of cloaks and floors. If it hit Julius it would have killed him. He is stated to cut whatever he feels he can cut.

He also cuts a black hole, which is an impossible task due to its density and gravity. And yet a chopstick is all he needs.

cool

Reid has never fought an opponent who was 4km away so the idea he would want to get in close in is a presumtion. Reid has the eyesight and senses to clearly see Asta from 4km away with pinpoint accuracy.

It is most likely that he, like Reinhard, would swing from 4km away to attack.

But he has fought someone at least 10m, 20, 40m or even 100m away so Occam's Razor suggests he is a very very very likely he does the same thing at 4km away.

Even if for some weird reason Reid attacks from that far out, the attack travels, giving Asta enough time to transform and dodge, or begin dodging while transforming at the same time. Heck Asta could even counter strike with a Zetten so both attacks clash. These situations still give Asta enough time to either transform and one shot

If their precog systems are too different then they precog eachother i suppose.

No problem

Why would it be useless against a stationary opponent? Old Wilhelm can tell how the layered invisible danmaku Unseen Hands will attack just by looking at how the air hangs above Petelgeuse.

If either transforming into Devil Union or using Zetten requires any time before it is deployed then it will be exploited by Reid

Okay then given the example then that fair to say it works on a stationary target. These skill based moves make nooooooo sense

How would Reid exploit it? The time taken for Asta to transform is depicted as instantaneous, and Reid's attack has to travel towards Asta. So as soon as Asta transforms its kinda game over.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

due to speed equalized both his movement and travel speed are equal,

I forgot to reply this

according to our standards only combat speeds are equalized but other speeds are not equalized in the way you think they are.

Imagine, your travel speed is 10x slower than your combat speed. if you equalize the combat speed of yourself to another person. Your travel speed is still 10x slower compared to your opponent.

Reid is a couple of times slower than his combat speed so in Asta's perspective, Reid is a couple of times slower. I can find the exact difference in speed if you want but i predict itll be a lot considering its MHS+ vs FTL. Large difference.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

If what arnold is saying is true then i am pretty confident that Asta in this key is a stomp, So i guess i was right on the money with that 6B key

 

[Zabazab]

But he has fought someone at least 10m, 20, 40m or even 100m away so Occam's Razor suggests he is a very very very likely he does the same thing at 4km away.

Even if for some weird reason Reid attacks from that far out, the attack travels, giving Asta enough time to transform and dodge, or begin dodging while transforming at the same time. Heck Asta could even counter strike with a Zetten so both attacks clash. These situations still give Asta enough time to either transform and one shot

The furthest we've seen Reid fight is from ~10 metres away, where if he's just trying to kill his opponent he swings his sword and hits them from that distance. He has only gotten close to style on far weaker oppenents like Julius.

When Asta transforms Reid will get stronger/faster in response and then get even stronger/faster when faced with death. If the attacks clash then Reid probably just cuts through Zetten with his hax.

How would Reid exploit it? The time taken for Asta to transform is depicted as instantaneous, and Reid's attack has to travel towards Asta. So as soon as Asta transforms its kinda game over.

Probably just by knowing to slash down the attack, or if it's not aoe (idk if it is) he could block it with the indestructable Dragon Sword and then transfer the blunt force out of his body through his feet.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

The furthest we've seen Reid fight is from ~10 metres away, where if he's just trying to kill his opponent he swings his sword and hits them from that distance. He has only gotten close to style on far weaker oppenents like Julius.

When Asta transforms Reid will get stronger/faster in response and then get even stronger/faster when faced with death. If the attacks clash then Reid probably just cuts through Zetten with his hax.

Reid may get stronger and faster in response to Asta's transformation, but we can not assume Reid gets as strong and as fast as Asta. Asta will still be several times faster and even stronger than Reid. I just wanted to make this clear.

And are you implying that Reid's attacks ignore distance? I would like to see evidence of that cuz i don't see anything as such on his page. If there is none then attacks from Reid can be easily dodged.

Probably just by knowing to slash down the attack, or if it's not aoe (idk if it is) he could block it with the indestructable Dragon Sword and then transfer the blunt force out of his body through his feet.

Since when does Reid know about the attack itself? All Reid should be aware of is the slash itself, not the attack. Anyway that is the least of his problem: the attack can be far too large to be blocked by the sword. (Even if the sword is indestructible, the force would be too much for Reid to handle which would lead to problems or he will be disarmed.)

Also, just to be clear, Reid can't cut through anti-magic with his bullshit skills unless he has been shown to be able to cut such a thing that doesn't exist in their world. Anyway Reid wouldn't be able to react to it and he is not strong enough to bypass the Zetten AP wise either.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Satella, change the starting distance to make It fair.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Like, 3 meters.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Like, 3 meters.

What?…

Odd. That’s so close that Asta would be forced to start with Zetten immediately.

It wouldn’t change much, it would actually make the fight easier for Asta.

Honestly if y’all want for Reid not to die in the first hit, make the distance far enough for him to maybe dodge by jumping or something.

But Asta would eventually still tag him with another Zetten once he gets closer or blitz him in a new form.