Avatar Upgrade

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Since this has turned into a general Avatar upgrade thread....

Maverick sent me this offsite calc earlier. If submitted to a blog here, does it look like it would be accepted? It isn't exactly clouds that the planet is being covered with, and the calc doesn't take into account that the spirit world is also being covered in Vaatu's energy.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

So what are we waiting for at this point? Readjustments to the sand nuke calc?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

So what are we waiting for at this point? Readjustments to the sand nuke calc?

I believe this

We also need some more opinions on the current scaling chain

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

I believe this

We also need some more opinions on the current scaling chain

The one that Maverick posted looks fine.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

New calc guys

Avatar Aang Moves some Water

vsbattles.fandom.com

36.778 Kilotons (7-C)

This would scale to Avatar Aang and possibly Ozai (He made Aang block his attacks)

I plan on doing the energybending cloud split when I get the chance as well

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Shouldn't all of this be discussed in the Avatar General Discussion page?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Shouldn't all of this be discussed in the Avatar General Discussion page?

This has basically become the Avatar upgrades thread and as of right now we are working on the scaling chain so I believe it should stay as a CRT for now

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Any updates, Dalesean?

 

[Dalesean027]

New calc guys

Avatar Aang Moves some Water

vsbattles.fandom.com

36.778 Kilotons (7-C)

This would scale to Avatar Aang and possibly Ozai (He made Aang block his attacks)

I plan on doing the energybending cloud split when I get the chance as well

this becomes more consistent as now given my updated results for the book 2 cloud calc the low end has Aang at 6 Kilotons now so this would effectively be a much consistently stronger feat for his book 3 scaling

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

this becomes more consistent as now given my updated results for the book 2 cloud calc the low end has Aang at 6 Kilotons now so this would effectively be a much consistently stronger feat for his book 3 scaling

What cloud calc?

 

[Dalesean027]

What cloud calc?

The mushroom calc one

 

[ByAsura]

What happened to the avatar state 7-B scaling, btw?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

What happened to the avatar state 7-B scaling, btw?

Idn there was 7-B scaling
When i get around to calcing the energybending cloud split i might be able to get that level

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Avatar state characters scaled from better feats later on; Yangchen's feat, and later Kyoshi's? But Korra did have her own 7-B feat via energy bending scaling yeah.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

The mushroom calc has been accepted as 7-B?

 

[Mazdoesstuff]

Can we scale Avatars’ LS to Kuruk “throwing around landmasses”?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Can we scale Avatars’ LS to Kuruk “throwing around landmasses”?

I mean just find the Weight of Kyoshi's Island split and use that

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Avatar state characters scaled from better feats later on; Yangchen's feat, and later Kyoshi's? But Korra did have her own 7-B feat via energy bending scaling yeah.

I guess it was deemed an outlier at the time I assume?

The mushroom calc has been accepted as 7-B?

We are waiting on calc members to evaluate which calc of the feat is more accurate

Mine is 469 Tons
Dale's is 7 Kilotons

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

We are waiting on calc members to evaluate which calc of the feat is more accurate

Mine is 469 Tons
Dale's is 7 Kilotons

Have other calc members been notified? Damage, Rusty, and Carioca don't seem interested or they haven't noticed.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Apologies for the delay.

I think Dale's version is more accurate. Since the height of a sand dune can vary drastically, I don't think that's better than using the horizon distance.

Not only that but the dust/sand cloud Aang makes is behind the sand dune, if the cloud was closer to the sand dune its size would be bigger.

I doubt the sand dune is all that close when Aang's blast didn't affect it at first, so it seems like it's meant to be a good distance away. We see sand reach Katara and the others, yet we don't see it reach to where that sand dune is in the small time we see it. So there is a fair bit of distance between them.

That's my opinion anyway.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Apologies for the delay.

I think Dale's version is more accurate. Since the height of a sand dune can vary drastically, I don't think that's better than using the horizon distance.

I believe my method is better in this case because we get a concrete estimate of it's size rather than assuming a distance in a shot that doesn't even have a clear Horizon Line and can vary due to the fact that the viewing angle shown is from the top of a sand Dune rather than ground level further muddying the results

Not only that but the dust/sand cloud Aang makes is behind the sand dune, if the cloud was closer to the sand dune its size would be bigger.

I doubt the sand dune is all that close when Aang's blast didn't affect it at first, so it seems like it's meant to be a good distance away. We see sand reach Katara and the others, yet we don't see it reach to where that sand dune is in the small time we see it. So there is a fair bit of distance between them.

We also see no disturbance in the sand in the resulting shot due to the shockwave which was shown to produce heavy winds. It's animation and obviously not gonna match the blast effects perfectly.

Due to that you can't just automatically assume that it's a great distance from that Sand Dune especially since we see the very sand dune in the shot right behind Aang before he begins


Even if you say that's not the same one (Which I believe it's portrayed that way) I still believe that assuming it's size compared to a sand dune is more accurate than assuming a Horizon distance in an area in which no Horizon is visable and can vary due to dune heights

That's my opinion anyway.

I respect it
I just layed out my point above and if you still believe Dale's is the better of the two then I won't argue

 

[TheRustyOne]

We also see no disturbance in the sand in the resulting shot due to the shockwave which was shown to produce heavy winds. It's animation and obviously not gonna match the blast effects perfectly.

I'm not talking about disturbing the sand dune itself, my apologies, I meant the sand flying across the air that we see reaches Katara and the others.

He's blows sand outward and that sand/wind doesn't reach the sand dune you're using in the time we see it, implying a large distance between. I believe the sand dune method varies too much, and the cloud being in the background means the measurements a low ball.

Calling something out as an animation thing isn't the greatest, it doesn't matter since that is what is shown to us and is what we have to work with. The sand he blew didn't reach the sand dune in the time we saw it, so I can only infer that the cloud is a good distance away in the background.

Of course there are exemptions, it all depends on the scene. But I don't see how this is one of them.

The horizon isn't perfect yeah, but I don't think it's by a drastic amount, and I believe is a more stable method to use.

From what I understand the size your using is the average between the two numbers, since the pdf doesn't mention an average size for sand dunes. I'm not against such a method, I've done the same myself. However I believe the horizon method is more concrete here than what you have.

TLDR: It's a good lower-end, but not the best end in comparison to Dale's method.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I'm not talking about disturbing the sand dune itself, my apologies, I meant the sand flying across the air that we see reaches Katara and the others.

He's blows sand outward and that sand/wind doesn't reach the sand dune you're using in the time we see it, implying a large distance between. I believe the sand dune method varies too much, and the cloud being in the background means the measurements a low ball.

Calling something out as an animation thing isn't the greatest, it doesn't matter since that is what is shown to us and is what we have to work with. The sand he blew didn't reach the sand dune in the time we saw it, so I can only infer that the cloud is a good distance away in the background.

Of course there are exemptions, it all depends on the scene. But I don't see how this is one of them.

Except we don't see the Sand disturbed at all in the entire scene leading up to the wind scene.

Not when they turned around, not when they looked directly at it, only when the frame changed to focus on them did we notice the wind and sand.

That means it would have to travel there entire viewing distance in the brief time the frame was on them which is EXYTREMELY unlikely.
Once again this is best summed up as they didn't want to animate it which backs up my point further

If your really assume that it traveled all that distance instantly then the distance would be way farther than what Dale has suggested

Also what's your opinion on the Sand Dune in the shot directly before Aang's blast matching with what we see afterwards?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

Apologies but I don't see the logic behind your points. The animation error is irrelevant and is a small part of your calculations massive issue.

It's in front of the cloud which obviously in the background. In fact going by your own calculation, the distance from the cloud and the sand dune is massive. Your measuring the bottom part of the sand cloud as a cylinder correct? The diameter in the scan with the sand dune is 130.61 meters.

That gives it a radius of 67.80 meters, since the cloud is clearly in the background. That means the distance between the cloud's center (Aang basically) and that sand dune is at least 67.80 meters. However that's assuming the cloud is literally right next to the sand dune, which is clearly not the case.

The shape of the sand dune is irrelevant, I don't see how it's the same one because it looks like a sand dune. Sorry but that came off as rude, I don't know how else to say it. Your calc is filled with too many varied results that I'm not okay with accepting it over Dale's. That's all I'm going to say about the matter.

It's getting pretty late, I'll check back here tomorrow.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Apologies but I don't see the logic behind your points. The animation error is irrelevant and is a small part of your calculations massive issue.

It's in front of the cloud which obviously in the background. In fact going by your own calculation, the distance from the cloud and the sand dune is massive. Your measuring the bottom part of the sand cloud as a cylinder correct? The diameter in the scan with the sand dune is 130.61 meters.

I never said it was right on top of it
Just close enough to reliably scale

That gives it a radius of 67.80 meters, since the cloud is clearly in the background. That means the distance between the cloud's center (Aang basically) and that sand dune is at least 67.80 meters. However that's assuming the cloud is literally right next to the sand dune, which is clearly not the case.

You literally cannot prove that this is the case due to how the shot is framed just as I cannot prove my case due to the shot's framing.

Except I have evidence in the form of a shot right before the feat showing a sand dune similar to the one we see in the background of Aang's shot
and while yes it's not concrete due to the presence of other sand dunes, It's still more evidence then you bring to the table with you claim of it being far away from the dune with no other reasoning then "It's not on it".

It's also what the shot implies as why else would they put a large sand dune right behind Aang to then immediately cut to a shot where we see the Mushroom cloud rising DIRECTLY behind another large sand dune

 

[ByAsura]

I still see absolutely nothing that says this was over the horizon rather than Aang being obscured by some of the sand dunes (like, for instance, the exact same sand dunes that were already obscuring part of the bottom of the cloud, unless you want to say even this shot was over the horizon), and nobody has actually given a convincing argument that it was yet.

Unless you're not one for Zeno's paradoxes, the fact that it must be a large distance is kind of irrelevant when you're talking about a distance of almost 5 km in every direction, especially since it'd take about 14 seconds for sound or a normal shockwave to travel at that distance. In reality, it takes about half that time for a breeze of sand that's going slower than sound.

 

[TheRustyOne]

Snip

I'll admit I cannot judge if the method of the horizon used in the calc is acceptable in the first place, that's why I did not evaluate the calc myself. However when seeing two other calc group members give it the okay, I'd assume the method itself was fine. Despite my lack of knowledge on it.

I do not know if it's incorrect or right, so that is a different issue. I believe this discussion would be best for the members who evaluated the horizon method. If the method is deemed unusable, I believe the sand dune method must be altered, as the average between the low and high-ends is baseless and is not the average height.

Using the low-end height of 3 meters or finding another way to measure the sand dune (Or the cloud) would be better to me.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Aside from some dubious "mushrooms" and sand being irritable as per what else needs to be discussed?

I agree with the proposed tiering btw which divides strong benders from the prodigies.

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Aside from some dubious "mushrooms" and sand being irritable as per what else needs to be discussed?

There is the Vaatu escape calc up above, though it would have to be made into a blog. It could potentially bump the verse up to High 6-A.

 

[Dalesean027]

If its contentious I could always half the horizon distance to begin with since as we said he's still at the very least a kilometer or two away bare minimum (they literally can't hear the sound of him screaming)

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I'll admit I cannot judge if the method of the horizon used in the calc is acceptable in the first place, that's why I did not evaluate the calc myself. However when seeing two other calc group members give it the okay, I'd assume the method itself was fine. Despite my lack of knowledge on it.

I do not know if it's incorrect or right, so that is a different issue. I believe this discussion would be best for the members who evaluated the horizon method. If the method is deemed unusable, I believe the sand dune method must be altered, as the average between the low and high-ends is baseless and is not the average height.

Using the low-end height of 3 meters or finding another way to measure the sand dune (Or the cloud) would be better to me.

I found another way to get the height via a shot later in the episode gimme a sec

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Welp it's not as much as it once was but it's still an upgrade from season 1

Aang Nukes the Desert

vsbattles.fandom.com

73.513 Tons (8-B+)

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Holy shit did no-one watch the original series?

Some random sandbenders in this episode raise humongous rocks like it's nothing

There's another feat with Aang's Airbending thats also at least High 8-C

I might have to go through and watch the whole series to see what all was missed

 

[Dalesean027]

Welp it's not as much as it once was but it's still an upgrade from season 1

Aang Nukes the Desert

vsbattles.fandom.com

73.513 Tons (8-B+)

This is fine

Holy shit did no-one watch the original series?

Some random sandbenders in this episode raise humongous rocks like it's nothing

There's another feat with Aang's Airbending thats also at least High 8-C

I might have to go through and watch the whole series to see what all was missed

Bro that's what I was saying before with the stuff I calculated its an insane amount of stuff that has been uncalculated

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

Kind of sad how comparatively nerfed earthbending was in Korra. You definitely don't see anyone making anything that massive save for some avatar state stuff, though it's mostly justified in that the majority of the series takes place in the city.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Kind of sad how comparatively nerfed earthbending was in Korra. You definitely don't see anyone making anything that massive save for some avatar state stuff, though it's mostly justified in that the majority of the series takes place in the city.

I kinda took it as most people don't know how to bend to the degree there ancestors did since electricity and other things made it easier to live

 

[ByAsura]

Speaking of this kind of stuff, 6 or more earth benders move the Ba Sing Se gates, and we see 3 Dai Li bring them down.

The gate guardians that do this are basically mid-tier fodder (let alone someone like Toph, Aang, or any reasonably powerful Earthbender), so pretty much everyone could get much higher into Class M if that's calculated.

And Korra makes a tidal wave large enough to push back the 25-storey mech (IIRC, it's made of high-purity platinum, which is very ******* dense). We never see glowing eyes in any proceeding or preceding shot, and there's no spinning particles around her, implying it's just her base form.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Speaking of this kind of stuff, 6 or more earth benders move the Ba Sing Se gates, and we see 3 Dai Li bring them down.

Why is the wall feat not calcable again?

The gate guardians that do this are basically mid-tier fodder (let alone someone like Toph, Aang, or any reasonably powerful Earthbender), so pretty much everyone could get much higher into Class M if that's calculated.

Legit there's a ton of Class M feats that just haven't been calculated

 

[ByAsura]

I don't know. Maybe it's because the resulting collapse was more responsible for fragmenting the wall than their bending?

 

[BrackishBrineBroth]

What's the current scaling chain for Aang look like, since it seems the most recent sand calc has been accepted?