Attempting to Upgrade Void Again.

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I wrote about Void's power the last time I tried to upgrade him, but this time I remembered a feat about the exact opposite of destruction. In the Japanese version of Void's heart phase's pause screen description, it says that he is the origin of all. This was not stated in the English version however, but it's highly likely they just forgot this part when translating it.




The part that wasn't included in the English version was saying that Void started the Kirby universe as the "origin of all". On the VS Battles Wiki, it's assumed that if a character can create something, they can destroy that much as well. Void being able to start a universe means that he should be 3-A tier, right?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

AAAAAAA

Efi, Alice, and I had this whole thing planned you made this too soon.

 

[Eficiente]

Not the first time someone makes a thread like this, it just means that he's the ancestor of every other living being, not that he just raised his hand & created the multiverse or anything in that fashion.

 

[Eficiente]

@Cal I agree with Void having a 3-B feat and the Lor, Master Crown, etc. being 2-C/2-B, but this I disagree with. Idk who Alice is btw.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I wonder how he was alive when nothing else existed. Edit: Oh wait you said living beings, nevermind.

 

[Eficiente]

We don't know if nothing else exsited, only that no other being exsited. The methods from which he could have done his role as an origin of all are vastly interpretable.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

To be honest I think they are 3-B as well, I was just going off of what I know.

 

[Eficiente]

Btw you are using an incorrect wording in the OP that makes seem the upgrade more legit while also not showing the real translation, which is shown in his profile. And Creation=/=AP unless proven, which would be the case for VT.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I didn't check his gallery. Oops, using that picture would've been a lot easier than using a translator to get Japanese results online.

 

[That.one.mofo]

being the origin isn't really impressive. like waddle doo is the origin of all abilities https://youtu.be/qDsD0soG4jI?t=28 . but he isn't any stronger then a mere rock https://youtu.be/hZTQUgEgwn8?t=550 at best being the ancestor of all would mean he would have everyone's powers and abilities due to every one being a descendent and having the same genetics which is supported by all his attacks

 

[Kirby71]

I agree-disagree, pls more context, efi said it, it's interpretable by now, and we need stunning evidence that it is what you mean.

 

[Eficiente]

This being "interpretable" is very generous, they were clearly not going for it and it's not something up in the air, expect Void to create the universe or whatever just because it would make him more powerful is kinda wrong.

 

[LuckyEmile]

It's funny how you say "they were clearly not going for it" when I've talked to a lot of people throughtout the Kirby fanbase and a lot of them (non-VS debaters) seem to believe it's the case. It's definitely not out of desire to make him more powerful, but maybe it has something to do with how Void (and Star Allies in general) has so much lore surrounding him/it that the fans go a little crazy. I mean, there is even a theory going around that the Classic Kirby you unlock after beating Void is actually Void reincarnated after the battle, hehe. I guess the best step is to ask them why they believe it, as clearly they don't have some sort of VS debating themed bias attached to them, but... b-beyond the very same scan, the one such fan couldn't really say much else. I've seen quite a few translations for it, but the one on his profile here does say he's the origin of all. Since... you know "origin and ancestor of all" is short of "origin of all and also ancestor of all". Plus, to call someone an origin isn't very ancestor-y, though I guess the four Matters/Minds/whatevers it mentions originating from him technically makes sense in an ancestor way... (But why doesn't it mention Miracle or Para...?)

Hmm, I definitely think this should be considering if it's basically consensus between critics, but we should also look at it under the mircoscope. Maybe a good idea would be to actually have it translated here by a user, as the one on his profile just look identical to the translation from the Meteorz video, and even if Meteorz can be strict on what translations he let's in... this translation seems a bit scetchy... It's weird how it translates a word literally imitating the English word "Dark" (Daaku) as "Darkness"... (Why was this let in? Well, he seems to cite the same translator over and over, so ... I think he's basically just come to trust anything the translator says and as such is no longer strict)

I definitely think this idea isn't going anywhere anytime soon though, it's a bit too widespread for that. It's interesting to see how it would interacting with the VS debating school of thought but... eh, the idea of it scaling to anyone else, even Void Termina and Void Soul, doesn't sit very well with me... It will be interesting to see how this thread goes, anyhow. I'll try to ask around more, because this is hardly a topic secluded to this thread and basically any Kirby fan could tell you about it, but until then these are my thoughts.

 

[Kirby71]

Hmm

 

[Deadice69]

at best being the ancestor of all would mean he would have everyone's powers and abilities due to every one being a descendent and having the same genetics which is supported by all his attacks

out of all the benefits of this statement, this makes the most sense.
voids soul is literally made like drawcias soul and has the same attacks. https://youtu.be/8dc9Wzp5nHk?t=540 and this https://youtu.be/8dc9Wzp5nHk?t=565 is just like https://youtu.be/Rwa-5szOrXs?t=403 and this https://youtu.be/Rwa-5szOrXs?t=493 same with sectonia https://youtu.be/ZBpc0mJFYUY?t=309 and this https://youtu.be/ZBpc0mJFYUY?t=425 black holes like Marx and magolor. https://youtu.be/Gsiu41gKS2o?t=125 along with having all chaos and possibilities in it's substance https://youtu.be/Bw22WdKERsc?t=122 . chaos being Marx due to being insane. and magolor being able to do almost anything with reality warping. there are tons of similar stuff with Kirby and void https://youtu.be/Bw22WdKERsc?t=246 both also having the same theme song. this https://youtu.be/OCH6nQYflwY?t=6 being this https://youtu.be/3NA6bvCNm58?t=21. voids outside body wields swords like meta knight, dark meta knight and every other sword wielder, and there are more then enough similarities with void and dark matter. if all this is true then give void all the power and abilities that he doesn't have but what a Kirby character that isn't him does,

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

being the origin isn't really impressive. like waddle doo is the origin of all abilities https://youtu.be/qDsD0soG4jI?t=28 . but he isn't any stronger then a mere rock https://youtu.be/hZTQUgEgwn8?t=550

That description means beam was the first ability Kirby got. He's not the origin in that way, as Kirby could've easily jumped over the Waddle Doo in Kirby's Adventure and got another ability first.

 

[That.one.mofo]

same could be said for void. beam is the origin of all abilities that came game later. void is the origin of all life forms that came later. so origin doesn't mean much, but since void is the ancestor of all life, then he should have the same genetics and powers like I said before

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

Yes.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

So should someone add the Kirby characters's "common powers" to the Void Termina's page?

 

[That.one.mofo]

this would give him. ( if he doesn't have ) matter manipulation from dark meta knight and magolor. illusion creation from dark meta knight. teleportation from plasma wisp and 80% of the Kirby verse. intangibility from the allies. reality warping from magolor and Marx and nova. spiritual manipulation from magolor galacta knight, and Marx. plant manipulation from wispy woods. acrobatics from galacta knight. and invincibility from miracle matter.


I think this is all the abilities he doesn't have but other Kirby character do. since they are decedents of void, void should have all these new powers and abilities. hope I didn't miss any

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I will put those powers on the Void Termina page then.

 

[That.one.mofo]

I would wait for more peoples opinions on it, but go ahead and see if they agree when this is added. i would agree though

 

[Eficiente]

Do not.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I'll wait for others to write what they think then.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

This would also make Void Termina have intangibility cause of the move Space Jump.

 

[That.one.mofo]

I also don't see chaos manipulation on his profile despite him having all chaos in his substance. or does this just mean he is chaos and doesn't control/manipulate it?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

He is an essence of chaos.

 

[That.one.mofo]

so he is chaos or does he manipulate it? that all am asking

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

He is chaos.

 

[Eficiente]

It's funny how you say "they were clearly not going for it" when I've talked to a lot of people throughtout the Kirby fanbase and a lot of them (non-VS debaters) seem to believe it's the case.

Well, non-VS debaters are far easier to believe things that warp the wording used on stuff and other context.

I mean, there is even a theory going around that the Classic Kirby you unlock after beating Void is actually Void reincarnated after the battle, hehe. I guess the best step is to ask them why they believe it, as clearly they don't have some sort of VS debating themed bias attached to them, but... b-beyond the very same scan, the one such fan couldn't really say much else. I've seen quite a few translations for it, but the one on his profile here does say he's the origin of all. Since... you know "origin and ancestor of all" is short of "origin of all and also ancestor of all". Plus, to call someone an origin isn't very ancestor-y, though I guess the four Matters/Minds/whatevers it mentions originating from him technically makes sense in an ancestor way... (But why doesn't it mention Miracle or Para...?)

Never heard of that theory, it's a pretty cool little thing but it kinda has nothing to do with supporting the upgrade - If Void can reincarnate into individual beings then so what? You are slightly warping the wording in the last part.

out of all the benefits of this statement, this makes the most sense.
I don't want to be antagonistic here but this is a headcanon. Yes he can use all of those power (..minus the black hole..) but that doesn't mean he can do stuff unshown without evidence. Evolution is still a thing, beings can pop up new things at any time. Dark Matters can still recreate things with their memory & Void seems to have that. Magic can still create new things any time. But just common sense would deny that.

In the future please wait for staff approval before adding stuff like this, That.one.mofo has NEW ACCOUNT & NEW EDITOR written in their user page.

I also don't see chaos manipulation on his profile despite him having all chaos in his substance. or does this just mean he is chaos and doesn't control/manipulate it?

Chaos is poetic unless proven to be real chaos, and not what anyone would interpret as chaos, which is usually the case.

 

[That.one.mofo]

so he should have resistance to chaos manipulation for already being chaos right?

 

[Deadice69]

this describes meteorz in one sentence pretty well.

I was one of those people who thought that unlocked Kirby was a void reincarnated. anyways yes this has never to do with the upgrade, but this is a https://vsbattles.com/Board/vsbattles/General_Discussio thread after all.


I have a new account & new editor on my user page and no one is using that as a agurments. any who, void has shown a few of these powers and abilities himself or have sources to these. he can summon the master crown (which gave magolor spiritual manipulation, matter manipulation, and reality warping) everyone in the Kirby verse being a decedent of void further proves that he can get these abilites. also "but that doesn't mean he can do stuff unshown without evidence" that can be said for void but asriel? doesn't show, "Bone Manipulation, Gravity Manipulation, Explosion Manipulation, Paralysis Inducement, Thread Manipulation, Animal Manipulation, Homing Attack, Sound Manipulation, Statistics Amplification, Vibration Manipulation, Heat Manipulation, Water Manipulation, Plant Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Duplication, Glyph Creation, Clairvoyance, Reactive Power Level, Mind Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Teleportation, Telekinesis, Healing, and Earth Manipulation" but those are listed on his profile.


knows that just because jevil says chaos he will get chaos manipulation without a argument against it once the 2nd chapter of deltarune is out I looked in the dictionary for chaos and says "complete disorder and confusion". if you seen astral birth voids boss fight you would know his very first attack involves chaos. https://youtu.be/8dc9Wzp5nHk?t=470 mostly damunku but chaos non the less.

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

I find that some series allow benefit of the doubt and others don't, I have no clue why. Kirby is one of those series where no one wants to go into "likely" territory. I just go with the flow, since it makes sense if we don't compare to other series.

 

[Eficiente]

This seems to be done, can I close this thread?

 

[James_Plays_4_Games]

If you want. It seems like we came to a resolution that's good enough.

 

[Deadice69]

fair enough