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At Least Universal DMC and more.....

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Here full post.

- Correct me if I'm wrong please (Not accusing of downplaying or bias, these are just questions waiting for clarification) but I recall that in viewtiful Joe, Joe was rated as galaxy level lore wise, however, he was unable to destroy a single planet in his giant mech. Same goes for darkstalkers, only one planet level + feat was shown by one person, yet everyone scaled to him.

It should has been known that vs battle wiki also use Lore and Outscreen feats at legit souce of feats too.
 
Hi there Hizack123,


Just as I asked in the post, it was only a question waiting to be answered or clarified. I guess you did that for me, thank you.
 
Toshiohex said:
Hi there Hizack123,

Just as I asked in the post, it was only a question waiting to be answered or clarified. I guess you did that for me, thank you.
Click to expand...
You can ask admin for more info but in conclusion.

Reject Lore and outsrceen feats just because "We never see it happen" is plain stupid, even more so if There are multiple statements support it.
 
Urizen is far higher than Mundus in power. Dante defeated argosax who was stated to be equal to mundus in power.

DMC2 dante already surpassed sparda with/ without DT.
 
Just updating everyone on the progress of this CRT.

Currently, Antvasima has stated that for this CRT to go through, he'll require that Matthew Schroeder agrees with it. The reason this CRT has gone on for so long without concluding is because Matthew has been incredibly busy with college, and so has yet to give his opinion. I'm working to see if we could resolve this under any other conditions, since it's clear at this point Matthew won't be able to respond. I'll update you all later. :)
 
Maxnumb231 said:
Also forgot to add one thing. Argosax feat is high 3-A due to demon world being infinite in size.
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I've mentioned that in the summaries thus far. Whether the demon world is actually infinite or whether the various statements about it are hyperbolic is still debatable, so I've mentioned it as an "At least 3-A, possibly High 3-A" feat.
 
Another piece of evidence for the demon world (and possibly human world) being infinite

Devil May Cry 3, Key Item File — Astronomical Board: "An astrological device which displays the endless void. Said to be powered by time."
 
Dienomite22 said:
Another piece of evidence for the demon world (and possibly human world) being infinite
Devil May Cry 3, Key Item File — Astronomical Board: "An astrological device which displays the endless void. Said to be powered by time."
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I do actually agree with you that it is infinite. That's why I say there are "various statements", like this one. But even so, there's still a chance that it is being hyperbolic, as the description itself for the astronomical board is a bit odd.
 
The board's description seems pretty straight forward to me but I get what you mean about some statements could be viewed as sorta hyperbolic.
 
Well, there are two statements in total. Both of them are potentially hyperbolic, but then they back eachother up pretty well. I'm still unsure if a definitive High 3-A tiering is acceptable, but should it be changed to "Likely High 3-A" instead of "Possibly High 3-A"?
 
i mean we can put possibly but i have doubts it hyperbolic due to how it was depicted in the manga stating the darkness was infinite but split when light came
 
Btw that Void Mundus quote of "the sole ruler of creation for timeless eternity", if that is counted as AP, would it fall on the tier 3 range?
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
Btw that Void Mundus quote of "the sole ruler of creation for timeless eternity", if that is counted as AP, would it fall on the tier 3 range?
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I mention that quote in my summary as well. The conclusion is that, while the quote is a bit too vague to assign a specifc tier to, it is almost certainly far higher than the 7-A tiering that Mundus is currently assigned to.
 
I mean.. everyone on this wiki knows (I think) that DMC characters are downplayed....

The problem is that due to vague statements regarding a lot of stuff... we cannot give them proper tier (They will either be wanked or downplayed). So we've choosen the downplay for the sake of safety.

I think that Even Matthew mentioned something about Void and the fact that we cannot properly scale it.
 
in regards to Void Mundus (who is literally a void), cuz there wasnt given how big he was adn that you can only assume, but that would give him somewhere around tier 2 if i remember
 
Meshifuari Arimota said:
I mean.. everyone on this wiki knows (I think) that DMC characters are downplayed....
The problem is that due to vague statements regarding a lot of stuff... we cannot give them proper tier (They will either be wanked or downplayed). So we've choosen the downplay for the sake of safety.

I think that Even Matthew mentioned something about Void and the fact that we cannot properly scale it.
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You are correct. To paraphrase what Matthew said (since I don't remember exactly where he said it, so the specifics are a bit muddled) what he said was that the only major reason that Mundus being a Void is not considered a feat is because we have no sense of scale, and that people who say that it should be a feat along the lines of High 3-A or Low 2-C are just misusing what we normally think of as a "void".
 
Meshifuari Arimota said:
Exactly.
Man I wish that someone asked Itsuno/Matt about this on twitter ;d
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That would actually be really helpful for this CRT, but I do not have a Twitter account. If anybody does, could you do this when you have the time?
 
I think I can agree with this.

I'm not entirely sure about the demon would being literally infinite/endless in size, but I can agree with "At least 3-A, possibly High 3-A" or "possibly Higher"

As per lower tiers, I don't think Vergil squaring off against Mundus or Beowolf really means much. Mundus did beat him, and for all we know, probably punted him with his eyes closed, and of course Beowolf was vastly weakened.

Overall, everything below 7-A should stay the same, but this looks pretty well constructed.
 
I am neutral here for the most part, but I lean more to the "no" side of things tbh.

btw is there a reason to why this is not an outlier?
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
btw is there a reason to why this is not an outlier?
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It's the first feat ever in the verse by cronological order and it is followed by more two feats of beings in similar level some thousands of years later
 
Well, the OP brings up that a ton of villains have no reason to actually destroy the universe or anything of the like, and there's plenty of consistency to Mundus being a Universal ordeal

Sid's feat was done casually by someone far weaker then the original Abigail that could actually rival Mundus

And I dunno how casual Urizen's world-shaking is, but considering how he didn't get out of his chair while doing it, it's probably also casual.

And the rest is just done by generally standard demons that Mundus and the like should be far superior to.
 
I'll wait for Kepe or Matt then as my knowlege on DMC is fairly low thus I won't make any real outrageous claims (Plus I lack the time to read through this entire thread full of text walls). But seeing as you asked, I gave my stance on this.
 
i would also like to add that the japanese raw for DMC 3 did say the demon world is infinite darkness/endless darkness so yeah apparently (the scan used µ×£ÒüªÒü¬ÒüìÚùç which afaik does say the definition above)
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
I am neutral here for the most part, but I lean more to the "no" side of things tbh.

btw is there a reason to why this is not an outlier?
Click to expand...
Various reasons so far. The most important one is that there are multiple feats to talk about here within the same 4/3 tier range. A 3-A feat from Mundus, a 3-A, Likely High 3-A feat from Argosax, a 4-C feat from Nightmare, a 4-A feat from the Saviour, and another seemingly very casual 4-C feat from Mundus. Based on what we know of scaling, all of these are perfectly consistent with eachother.

EDIT: Another less notable one to mention is villain motivation. In almost all situations, the villains who are shown to be God Yier have a motivation something along the lines of "control the human world" or "get more power so you never feel weak again". To vastly oversimplify the argument here, in both cases they would have no concieveable reason to demonstrate universal feats (even if they were capable of such feats). When you combine that with how the limits of villains in DMC is almost always only shown through being beaten by scaled characters (such as Dante or Sparda) it makes sense that they would be capable of feats of creation/destruction far greater than they have shown thus far.
 
And there are NO counterfeats, this is something that has to be underlined, we've never seen god/tiers be hurt by tier 7/6/4 attacks and the god tiers have always casually fodderized such beings
 
Really?

Literally every single feat in Devil May Cry caps at Tier 7 with two Tier 6 feats (possibly 3) in the whole series all performed by high-tier characters.

And once again, this whole thread is based on nonsense that has already been debunked since time immemorial.

Mundus' feat is at best 4-A and likely not even that since Dante and Mundus are literally standing on "space" as if all that happened were a filter put through the room, and the stars flicker and spin which puts heavy doubt on them being real.

All the "Merge the worlds" feats involve portals and prep time and not once do they relate to fusing universes. That is pure wank.

The Nightmare feat is a literal dream-world and also at best he only replicates the island. Same with the supposed "Savior Dimensions". All tiny and unquantifiable.

There is no way in hell this is acceptable
 
Stuff about the DMC 3 manga has never been brought up i guess, so anything related to that has not been debunked

And as far as i read the comments until now, none of the merging was done with portals...
 
Well since everything I wrote on your wall seems to have been ignored, I'll just re-post it here.

The Actual Feat

The only feat that is 3-A that's being discussed is the Mundus feat. And by process of elimination it's definitely creation.

  • It's not teleportation because this is teleportation, and even Munuds himself says that in the human world they are weaker, as well as the demon world not having a sky like that, means that it's not teleportation.
  • It's also not illusions because the fight can't physically happen in that space they were in, if you've played the game you would know what I mean here is a full fight you can watch it yourself if you haven't already, and not to mention the room they were in doesn't have a scratch on it when we see Dante in the aftermath, which again would be physically impossible if it was an illusion.
    • The sky rotating is also just a weird camera spin, not the area itself moving, which you can quite clearly see when Mundus flies up and the sky behind him isn't rotating at all.
    • There is also no "air burst" when he jumps, that's blatantly false. If someone sees an "air burst" there feel free to show me a scan of where, because I don't see anything.
    • As well as when he creates the dimension both him and Dante float in the air, unlike some people that have claimed they were standing feet flat which is just wrong.
1be3300031b718fbb108be9878351123


  • The support for this is with the tweet as well as in the DMC 3 manga where it is stated that their names have more of a literal meanings, rather then it being for show. And Mundus's name meaning "World", "Universe" or "Void".
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All of these together make it pretty clear that it's a creation feat.

Supporting Feats
Now for the supporting feats, well there aren't that much and these would only be supporting feats if the 3-A is accepted.

  • The first one is the Mirror World one. Self explanatory. It was powered by Mundus and it takes you to a mirror version of the world.
  • The other one is the Nightmare one. Where it teleports you to another dimension. This one is kinda iffy, since the point of conjecture was whether it teleported you, or just showed you illusions. Well here you can see the blob go down and you literally fall in this dimension, and when you finish fighting in there, you go inside a portal and you rise up from the blob.
    • In the enemy files it says this

      "When you are surrounded in its gel-like form, you will be teleported into an evil dimension. You must defeat the evil spirits that rule the dimension. The evil is a reflection of Dante's trauma that rests in his subconscious."

      Which makes a clear distinction that the teleportation to the dimension is one thing, and that the evils just rule the dimension, which are the traumas of Dante.
  • And the last one are the dice games in DMC4, they are inside Sparda and they are powered by his power and they send you to different realities. Well again this one is kinda iffy but if the 3-A is accepted then it wouldn't be. One of the points brought up against this was that Sanctus is suddenly 3-A as well as Nero, but that's not really how it works. Just because they draw power from a very large source doesn't mean that they possess all that power, that's just silly.
 
I think that Matthew makes sense. We should probably close this thread.
 
@Matthew

Would you be willing to write an explanation section for the Devil May Cry (Verse) page, so we avoid more situations like this in the future?
 
@Matthew Schroeder

It was already proven on YOUR wall that Dante and Mundus were not "standing on space" and the weird nature of the of the space is due to technical limitations as shown by the CG cutscene moments before which shows a traditional normal space background.Re-watch the cutscene for all of this https://youtu.be/0jvwzkwmFn0?t=166.

Not all the merge the world feats involved portals the only DMC2 related portal stuff is unsealing Argosax other than that nothing suggest that the merging of the universe were through portals because frankly that wasn't what either Argosax or Arius goals were.

You were already debunked on this repeatedly, stop saying it's a Nightmare is a dream world.And the Savior recreates the Sun too which I've already shown above.
 
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