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At Least Universal DMC and more.....

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again didn't we also have void mundus vs dante shaking the demon world?
 
I strongly agree with Cal. I am not able to help you solve this issue, but everybody need to take some time to calm down and make an effort to be respectful to each other. These types of discussions can only be solved with rational, polite, and structured arguments. Otherwise it easily devolves into name-calling and paranoia.

Cal and I are not the best staff members at rational evaluation, but we usually try to be reasonable, helpful, and listen to others.
 
Argosax was literally only making portals. In fact, every single fusing feat is portal creation or barrier creation.

Spares needed help and prep time to seal Temen-ni-gru which was made over an extended period of time. No one can merge dimensions in Devil May Cry.
 
@Reb

Dude...calm down. Like the moment Matt commented you've gotren extremely defensive and gradually more and more agressive in your tone. That may not be your entent, but that's how it reads and the tone it gives off.

For everyone either for or against the upgrade, keep it civil.
 
Also I see that we have deranged into calling others names and copypasting posts that actually prove nothing.

Mundus' feat, even if it is Dimension creation, is an outlier the level of Superman lifting Infinity. And Argosax is literally featless.
 
@Matthew Schroeder

No, the only portal Argosax was involved with was the one that he was coming from because he was sealed.There is no timeframe for the Temen-nig-gru being made and Sparda was gimped of his power when he did it.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Argosax was literally only making portals. In fact, every single fusing feat is portal creation or barrier creation.
Click to expand...
Actually not, that is not true. Argosax did not made any portal. The only portal made in DMC 2 was the one in the endgame, and it was the result of Arius's failing to correctly open Argosax seal. Halfway through the game it was already stated that the both worlds were merging.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Argosax was literally only making portals. In fact, every single fusing feat is portal creation or barrier creation.

Spares needed help and prep time to seal Temen-ni-gru which was made over an extended period of time. No one can merge dimensions in Devil May Cry.
Click to expand...
U need evidence to support yourself claim that Agrosax needed portals when theres no specific statement of his resurrection and the need for merging the world. Cite your source because the whole idea of you saying he needed portals was alreadymentioned and addressed by someone above about how portals were irrelevant.
 
Ok.

@Dragonmasterxyz and @The real cal howard

Do you want us to provide context and our arguments for the feats in the meantime? Just so we can't be accused of biased or headcanon.
 
Maxnumb231 said:
You're ignoring the context here. Argosax has been stated multiple times consistently in the game and the guidebook to say he is merging the two worlds. Heck if anything it has already been merged and it was only stopped because dante defeated argosax. Idk how this debunksthe argument with valid response. Wdym he needed help? U dont need to look into off screen to say he needed or helpor not , even though argosax is doing it himself and this is argosax with just 3 arcana seals being used.
Click to expand...
Actually, it is important to know the timeframe for certain feats, this is just like Mortal Kombat, they were 5-B for merging the realms but since we don't have timeframe, proof that it isn't through portals and if he need prep time or not, we don't upgraded them to 5-B. This one is similar

Don't think that I'm here to say "no" to everything, I just want so see the reasons for a DMC upgrade
 
Dienomite22 said:
Ok.

@Dragonmasterxyz and @The real cal howard

Do you want us to provide context and our arguments for the feats in the meantime? Just so we can't be accused of biased or headcanon.
Click to expand...
Yeah sure. This is a big thread so basically summarizing and giving context would help.
 
Actually, it is important to know the timeframe for certain feats, this is just like Mortal Kombat, they were 5-B for merging the realms but since we don't have timeframe, proof that it isn't through portals and if he need prep time or not, we don't upgraded them to 5-B. This one is similar

Don't think that I'm here to say "no" to everything, I just want so see the reasons for a DMC upgrade

Another false equivalence both DMC and mortal kombat Are NOT correlated to one another. If anything u need the power system needs demonic power to be able to do those things. Hence when argosax was almost unsealed he alresdy did so by just his power. None of yput arguments makes any sense to address the point. Why would heneed prep time? DMC lore doenst use technplogy to use some feats in order for them to perform. That's irrelevant
 
If it's not stated or at the very least heavily implied Mundus created the place, we cannot assume he did.

Also, Mundus in latin also has the second meaning of "Hell" or "Underworld", which is what the name most likely refers to. Years of studying latin finally paid off.
 
@TriforcePower1

It is heavily implied to be creation with or without Mundus's name being taken to account, please read @Ogbunabli's post.
 
@Dante Demon Killah

We know no portals were involved because the world already began warping before anything portal related happened.But the timeframe is the only thing left unknown.
 
This thread is straight up ridiculous now.

Argosax's "portals" don't exist and weren't mentioned anywhere in the entire DMC2 campaign. It doesn't matter how many times people say it's portals, it won't be true just because they want it to be.
 
Dienomite22 said:
@Dante Demon Killah

We know no portals were involved because the world already began warping before anything portal related happened.But the timeframe is the only thing left unknown.
Click to expand...
Oh, thanks Dienomite

So he didn't need any portal to do it, and he was already doing it so no prep time

In what point of the story the world began to merge ? Could be useful to find a timeframe
 
So, if until the end of the game the worlds are not fully merged, it is a fairly big timeframe tho

But still a good feat, actually, it supports the other ones that are higher than Tier 6
 
@Dragon

Yeah, my replies do come off as agressive, I admit. I just expected some new arguments to come up on his side, but nothing has changed, be the arguments valid or not.

But either way, the claim that Argosax needed a portal to do the thing is unfounded.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Argosax was literally only making portals. In fact, every single fusing feat is portal creation or barrier creation.
Spares needed help and prep time to seal Temen-ni-gru which was made over an extended period of time. No one can merge dimensions in Devil May Cry.
Click to expand...
Please stop repeating this completely unfounded response without any evidence to back it up. You finding the counter-arguments unsatisfactory is irrelevant unless you actually elaborate and post scans to back it up. Just denying the arguments as "unconvincing" means nothing. Nothing personal, it's just how actual debates in real life work.

If I need to requote my original rebuttal which Dark Grath skimmed over (and Dark Grath missed a lot of things and made my original argument easier to attack, if I am to be honest):

  • This is blatantly false and I have to question, with no offense intended, if you have played or even wached Devil May Cry 2, because no portals are even attempted to be opened until the very end of the game, when Arius tries - and fails - to open a Hell Gate. The only other "portals" that are opened throughout the campain are the blue orbs that Dante collects which can open pathways throughout the Underworld. I don't think I need to mention that:
  • It has nothing to do with Argosax's feat
  • By the time Dante acquires these orbs the Demon World and the Human World are pretty much already merged, since Arius tells Lucia that Argosax is reverting things to how they were on Mission 8 while Dante only acquires the orbs by the double digit missions.
Repeat over and over again for bystanders:

  • There are literally no portals in DMC2's campaign.
  • There are literally no portals in DMC2's campaign.
 
Yeah, the feat started early in the game and he didn't needed any portal, neither prep time

The only issue is that the timeframe is little big, maybe (please guys, I said MAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYBE) too big to consider a 3-A feat, so what tier this should be ?
 
And Argosax's feat is not at all comparable to Mortal Kombat, considering it is specifically stated that the Demon World would consume our dimension in the DMC2 guidebook.
 
So, I've checked and apparently the first meaning of the word Mundus, even above "world" or "hell", is toiletries and beuty aids

Obviously the "world"/"hell" translation is the correct one, I just thought this was a fun fact
 
ParadoxIndifferent said:
And Argosax's feat is not at all comparable to Mortal Kombat, considering it is specifically stated that the Demon World would consume our dimension in the DMC2 guidebook.
Click to expand...
It isn't comparable to Mk anymore since we have evidence of being done without portals or prep time

I'm happy to know that I was wrong lol
 
though the thing is he was warping both of the worlds right? Cuz demon world was at least an infinite/endless darkness which from what i understand spliting an infinite realm is at least 3-A or smth no?
 
There is no basis for using "Hell" as a translation. While it is very justified to think that Mundus's name meaning hell would mix with him being the Emperor of Hell at a first glance, Kamiya specifically states that he used Carl Gustav Jung's philosophical work as a basis for Mundus's name in the Bradygames Guide, and in Jung's philosophy works, "Mundus" is used to denote the universe coming into existence and the state it will return to:

http://unusmundusproject.com/about/

  • "Unus Mundus is latin for "one world", but the story behind the phrase stretches much further then its translation. It was popularized by Carl Jung, the founder of analytical psychology, and it is the concept of an underlying unified reality, from which everything emerges and to which everything returns."
Though Mundus's name is quite irrelevant and I prefer using Argosax.
 
In Mortal Kombat we literally see the landmasses of the realms fusing into one which is why MK3 is set in cities with Outworld elements seeping in. It's a terrible comparison.
 
If we consider that they are infinite, it would be a High 3-A feat

If we consider them as normal Universes, it would be 3-B I believe, since he's gradually merging them

@Matt

Wait, really ? I didn't knew that, looks like we need a MK CRT lol
 
Shao Kahn's feat is never specified to be the whole universe, only the planet they are in, while DMC2 specifically states that the entire universe will be consumed by the Demon World in the guidebook, so it's indeed a terrible comparison if you try to use it to downplay.
 
In this case, merging universes would probably not be 2-C due to the fact that the Demon World and the Human World are never specified to be alternate timelines or space-time continuums, just alternate dimensions.
 
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