Armament Haki Changes

[Damage3245]

For example, it's like saying Naruto doesn't have Regen Negation just because an Edo zombie regenerated after 2-3 hours ( We are not treating Regen differently).

It has been more than 3-4 days since the incident of Dressrosa and the marine were still on their way to impel down, naturally Doffy's injuries were healed. So, idk was this point was trying to prove here.

How do you know Doflamingo's healing was any slower than normal?

 

[WrongIdea21]

I guess, i'll have to warp up everything together.

Counter-arguments for the existence of Devil fruit negation:

• If Devil fruit negation is a thing then no Zoan user should be capable of transforming into Furries. (Because Devil fruit negation would imply that Zoan users aka Transforming into animals can be negated by simply punching them with haki-imbued fists)
• Devil fruit Negation would also imply, our rubber boy would no longer be able to stretch. Even Luffy himself was wondering why she was able to hurt him despite his rubber body, the latter he confirms he's still able to stretch and was even more confused than before.
• Busoshouku Haki doesn't prevent/nullify the Devil fruit user from using his powers
• Paramecia's and Zoan's powers stems from their own body, in other words their biological body is being altered, thus they are still humans, but at the same time are not.
• "Luffy made contact with Prometheus as if he was a solid (like a logia), it just didn’t hurt him because he didn’t have a true body and he was pure fire" - Tempest (Doesn't contradict the Manga, because this is the version where they added noises, so you can hear Luffy is touching Prometheus).

Marco's Regen

• These phoenix flames are stronger than normal fire and possess tremendous healing properties; while shrouded in the flames, Marco can rapidly self-regenerate from nigh any physical damage he receives, like a phoenix being reborn. It is noted, or at least implied, that no matter what injury he is dealt, he can recover by flam
• Marco is not a Logia, he's just a Rare Zoan user, meaning his healing process must be that fast that even Kizaru's Yasakani no Magatama couldn't bypass it.
• Marco specifically states "healing speed", in other words his blue flames (which he controls at will) enhancing the natural healing process of other people, but a lesser effect, but to him, it's nigh-instantly.
• His Wound from Garp -- The Hero.

(Are people serioulsy using Sanji to justify that Busoshoku haki doesn't negate Regen when he himself said he was holding back against Luffy? and Luffy's haki is like how many times stronger?)

IDK on zoan part but Logia and paramecia Haki could negate its aswell, Rayleigh explains that on chapter 597.

Yeah I'm back

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I don't think we know the exact timeframe. A few days after the end of Dressrosa.

Damage, even without timeframe it's painfully obvious that the distance between Dressrosa and Impel down is massive, it requires more than 4-5, days to actually get there. Nothing implies Impel down and Dressrosa are close to each other.

Even with a ship, it would take a lot of days to reach to another island that's not punk hazard. Even Doffy took 3 days to reach Punk Hazard from Dressrosa, now imagine impel down.

 

[Damage3245]

Damage, even without timeframe it's painfully obvious that the distance between Dressrosa and Impel down is massive, it requires more than 4-5, days to actually get there. Nothing implies Impel down and Dressrosa are close to each other.

Even with a ship, it would take a lot of days to reach to another island that's not punk hazard. Even Doffy took 3 days to reach Punk Hazard from Dressrosa, now imagine impel down.

Which ultimately doesn't have anything to do with my point, since you don't know if Doflamingo's healing speed was slowed down at all in that timeframe.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

How does the Haki interfere with Boros' regeneration?

By him not being able to interfere with his biological regen

Does Haki have some way of telling apart natural healing and sped-up healing?

Didn't understand this but what I said above, is what I'm saying

 

[RazumaHiroki]

I would never heard of marine ships being able to instantly traveling from island to island. It requires days and weeks, Oda don't need to add Time-frame for every obvious thing.

If it took the marine one day from Dressrosa to impel down, then that would imply their ships travel massively faster than the speed of light.

 

[Damage3245]

I would never heard of marine ships being able to instantly traveling from island to island. It requires days and weeks, Oda don't need to add Time-frame for every obvious thing.

If it took the marine one day from Dressrosa to impel down, then that would imply their ships travel massively faster than the speed of light.

Please don't be ridiculous. Nobody said they instantly travelled to Impel Down.

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

How does the Haki interfere with Boros' regeneration?

Does Haki have some way of telling apart natural healing and sped-up healing?

By him not being able to interfere with his biological regen

Didn't understand this but what I said above, is what I'm saying

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Please don't be ridiculous. Nobody said they instantly travelled to Impel Down.

You were implying that. Also why are you fixated on Doffy's healing speed did he mentioned something about his healing speed? Also nor you or me can prove whether his healing speed was affected or not, so idk why you are bringing him up in the first place?

Regarding his wounds, it's easy to assume that his wounds healed after 3-4 days (perhaps even longer who knows?).

 

[Damage3245]

You were implying that. Also why are you fixated on Doffy's healing speed did he mentioned something about his healing speed? Also nor you or me can prove whether his healing speed was affected or not, so idk why you are bringing him up in the first place?

Regarding his wounds, it's easy to assume that his wounds healed after 3-4 days (perhaps even longer who knows?).

How does "a few days" imply instant travel speed?

I'm saying that there's a lack of evidence of people struggling to heal from Haki-imbued attacks; so a simple "Regeneration Negation" on the Haki page is misleading.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I got lost of the track, why is Boros in the thread?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

I got lost of the track, why is Boros in the thread?

✌

 

[RazumaHiroki]

How does "a few days" imply instant travel speed?

I'm saying that there's a lack of evidence of people struggling to heal from Haki-imbued attacks; so a simple "Regeneration Negation" on the Haki page is misleading.

It could be a week too, hence why I said "or more" but never a day or two days saying otherwise is ridiculous, simply because impel down is in the Grandline, while Dressrosa is in the New world. Your examples were literally characters who aren't even known for their Regen, I mean, why Doffy out of all characters?

Tempest can explain it better regarding the Regen Negation part. (Because trying to explain it multiple times exhausts me)

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Even the fishman island is easier to reach from the Grandline than Dressrosa.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Without any explanation or elaboration on the Haki page, that interpretation just from reading the Haki page on face-value is valid.

Then it can be reworded I guess

For example, it's like saying Naruto doesn't have Regen Negation just because an Edo zombie regenerated after 2-3 hours ( We are not treating Regen differently).

Don't bring another HST into another HST.
And what naruto has is limited regeneration negation for slowing down the regen rate of edos as shown and it was directly stated that his attacks slows down the regeneration of Mui

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Don't bring another HST into another HST.
And what naruto has is limited regeneration negation for slowing down the regen rate of edos as shown and it was directly stated that his attacks slows down the regeneration of Mui

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downgrade Naruto or something like that I used him For "an example".

 

[PrinceofPein]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to downgrade Naruto or something like that I used him For "an example".

Except it is kind of a rule here not to
Also different scenario and different cases.
Marco - was shown with a bruise on his face after Garp attacked him
Naruto- was shown to reduce the rate at which they can regenerate, and also stated that he increases the time at which they regenerate

Anyway enough derailing, I think what damage is saying is that the way it is worded it says it negates all types of regeneration even biological regen, so that needs to be reworded

 

[Eminiteable]

I think the Doflamingo Reverie argument is flawed as nothing implies the effects of Buso regen negation lasts on a person several weeks later.

 

[Damage3245]

I think the Doflamingo Reverie argument is flawed as nothing implies the effects of Buso regen negation lasts on a person several weeks later.

What is the difference between a wound inflicted with Haki and a wound inflicted without Haki? How does the former impact regeneration and natural healing?

 

[Eminiteable]

What is the difference between a wound inflicted with Haki and a wound inflicted without Haki? How does the former impact regeneration and natural healing?

Haki Hit: Marco's wound from Garp didn't heal, despite his powers.
Non-Haki Hit: Marco's wounds healed from every hit.

 

[Damage3245]

Haki Hit: Marco's wound from Garp didn't heal, despite his powers.
Non-Haki Hit: Marco's wounds healed from every hit.

Considering Marco has limited stamina to work with, it is possible that he only chose to use his healing on lethal injuries and didn't bother healing the hit to his face, right?

 

[Eminiteable]

Considering Marco has limited stamina to work with, it is possible that he only chose to use his healing on lethal injuries and didn't bother healing the hit to his face, right?

It was a few days after the battle was over, at that point there would be no reason not to heal himself if he could.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Considering Marco has limited stamina to work with, it is possible that he only chose to use his healing on lethal injuries and didn't bother healing the hit to his face, right?

Proof?

 

[Damage3245]

Proof?

The latest fighting in the Wano arc, where Marco is shown to be exhausted and no longer healing his injuries.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

The latest fighting in the Wano arc, where Marco is shown to be exhausted and no longer healing his injuries.

I wasn't referring to that. The latter. Where did Marco say he chose not to heal his head wound?. Do you have anything to back this up or is that just headcanon or assumption?

 

[Damage3245]

I wasn't referring to that. The latter. Where did Marco say he chose not to heal his head wound?. Do you have anything to back this up or is that just headcanon or assumption?

Same amount of head-canon as the reason why Marco doesn't heal his head injury is because it was inflicted with Armament Haki.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Same amount of head-canon as the reason why Marco doesn't heal his head injury is because it was inflicted with Armament Haki.

You mean the scan we've posted above that clearly suggests it, while you on the other hand doesn't even have a statement or scan to back up your headcanon?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

So, please refrain from calling something an assumption or a headcanon if your argument relies on 10x the amount of assumption for whatever reason you are accusing of being based on assumption in the first place.

Your interpretation is inherently flawed, what's stopping Marco from healing his head wound? I would get it if Marco said it himself via a statement. Hence why I asked for a statement or scan, more specifically after the war (did he mentioned why during his conversation with Shanks? If yes, can you kindly post the scan, I'm not home at the moment).

 

[Damage3245]

You mean the scan we've posted above that clearly suggests it, while you on the other hand doesn't even have a statement or scan to back up your headcanon?

What suggests it?

So, please refrain from calling something an assumption or a headcanon if your argument relies on 10x the amount of assumption for whatever reason you are accusing of being based on assumption in the first place.

Your interpretation is inherently flawed, what's stopping Marco from healing his head wound? I would get it if Marco said it himself via a statement. Hence why I asked for a statement or scan, more specifically after the war (did he mentioned why during his conversation with Shanks? If yes, can you kindly post the scan, I'm not home at the moment).

What is flawed about it? We've seen that Marco doesn't heal every single injury he ever recieves.

Saying that Armament Haki has some unstated property that lets users inflict wounds that cannot be healed is a way, way bigger assumption than Marco just didn't heal an injury.

 

[RazumaHiroki]

What suggests it?

I guess, i'll have to warp up everything together.

Counter-arguments for the existence of Devil fruit negation:

• If Devil fruit negation is a thing then no Zoan user should be capable of transforming into Furries. (Because Devil fruit negation would imply that Zoan users aka Transforming into animals can be negated by simply punching them with haki-imbued fists)
• Devil fruit Negation would also imply, our rubber boy would no longer be able to stretch. Even Luffy himself was wondering why she was able to hurt him despite his rubber body, the latter he confirms he's still able to stretch and was even more confused than before.
• Busoshouku Haki doesn't prevent/nullify the Devil fruit user from using his powers
• Paramecia's and Zoan's powers stems from their own body, in other words their biological body is being altered, thus they are still humans, but at the same time are not.
• "Luffy made contact with Prometheus as if he was a solid (like a logia), it just didn’t hurt him because he didn’t have a true body and he was pure fire" - Tempest (Doesn't contradict the Manga, because this is the version where they added noises, so you can hear Luffy is touching Prometheus).

Marco's Regen

• These phoenix flames are stronger than normal fire and possess tremendous healing properties; while shrouded in the flames, Marco can rapidly self-regenerate from nigh any physical damage he receives, like a phoenix being reborn. It is noted, or at least implied, that no matter what injury he is dealt, he can recover by flam
• Marco is not a Logia, he's just a Rare Zoan user, meaning his healing process must be that fast that even Kizaru's Yasakani no Magatama couldn't bypass it.
• Marco specifically states "healing speed", in other words his blue flames (which he controls at will) enhancing the natural healing process of other people, but a lesser effect, but to him, it's nigh-instantly.
• His Wound from Garp -- The Hero.

(Are people serioulsy using Sanji to justify that Busoshoku haki doesn't negate Regen when he himself said he was holding back against Luffy? and Luffy's haki is like how many times stronger?)

What is flawed about it? We've seen that Marco doesn't heal every single injury he ever recieves.

I was specifically referring to Marco after the war. I asked you what's stopping him from healing his head wound, since the war is over after all. And your initial response to my question was "he chose not to heal it", so why would he chose not to heal his head wound, instead of another interpretation or assumption. I would like to see proof.

Saying that Armament Haki has some unstated property that lets users inflict wounds that cannot be healed is a way, way bigger assumption than Marco just didn't heal an injury.

Damage, with all due respect, your only counter-arguments were Doffy and Sanji -- two extremely flawed arguments and examples, you said yourself we don't know when Doffy's injuries started to heal due to no timeframe, you could've chosen a better counter-argument or example than doffy if you knew that all along. If those two were your only counter-arguments, then idk why you are arguing against it?

 

[Eminiteable]

Saying that Armament Haki has some unstated property that lets users inflict wounds that cannot be healed is a way, way bigger assumption than Marco just didn't heal an injury.

An assumption also has to follow logic, Marco has no reason to not heal himself after the war like he did with his other injuries. While true an argument could be made that during the war he wouldn't want to recover every injury to reserve stamina (which is an assumption not supported by the events of marineford as he's shown using his regeneration after every hit he takes during that war) that doesn't apply days after the war where stamina consumption isn't an issue for a relatively minor wound.

 

[Damage3245]

I guess, i'll have to warp up everything together.

I don't see what part of that suggests that Haki is the only explanation.

I was specifically referring to Marco after the war. I asked you what's stopping him from healing his head wound, since the war is over after all. And your initial response to my question was "he chose not to heal it", so why would he chose not to heal his head wound, instead of another interpretation or assumption. I would like to see proof.

Who the hell knows? Maybe he was using his flames for healing other people. Maybe he has a longer recovery time for his powers than we know about. Maybe after a certain amount of time has passed the wound can't be healed as quickly.

Maybe he just didn't bother because it's not a serious injury?

Marco doesn't heal every little bruise and scrape he has from his fight with King and Queen, but he does regenerate losing his entire arm when he has to.

So it seems somewhat obvious to me that Marco reserves his powers for extreme injuries, and doesn't use it all the time, every time.

Damage, with all due respect, your only counter-arguments were Doffy and Sanji -- two extremely flawed arguments and examples, you said yourself we don't know when Doffy's injuries started to heal due to no timeframe, you could've chosen a better counter-argument or example than doffy if you knew that all along. If those two were your only counter-arguments, then idk why you are arguing against it?

They're the main ones, but just look at anyone who has been injured by anyone using Armament Haki; they don't have perpetual injuries afterwards.

If Haki could really be used to stop people from healing... why has no character in the entire manga ever stated or implied this?

 

[MonkeyOfLife]

If Haki could really be used to stop people from healing... why has no character in the entire manga ever stated or implied this?

Why has no one in the manga or anywhere else besides the databook ever said that haki can block devil fruit abilities? Because Oda doesn't need to explain everything perfectly when we can do it ourselves

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Who the hell knows? Maybe he was using his flames for healing other people. Maybe he has a longer recovery time for his powers than we know about. Maybe after a certain amount of time has passed the wound can't be healed as quickly.

Maybe he just didn't bother because it's not a serious injury?

Marco doesn't heal every little bruise and scrape he has from his fight with King and Queen, but he does regenerate losing his entire arm when he has to.

So it seems somewhat obvious to me that Marco reserves his powers for extreme injuries, and doesn't use it all the time, every time.

Damage, it was stated many times Marco regens faster than healing someone, even is capable of healing himself by using his blue flames. Even Kizaru's Yasakani no Magatama couldn't bypass his regen, after the war he regained his stamina (after 3-4 days?), it makes no sense why he would chose not to heal his head wound.

 

[Kachon123]

Sorry, I went to sleep.

I agree with damage. Regen Negation on the pages should be reworded or removed,

 

[Kachon123]

it makes no sense why he would chose not to heal his head wound.

And it makes no sense that Haki gives regeneration negation, as every time a new ability was added to the Haki page, it was because it was stated in the series.

Marco could've very well not healed. It's not that far-fetched

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Marco could've very well not healed. It's not that far-fetched

Scan?

 

[Eminiteable]

And it makes no sense that Haki gives regeneration negation, as every time a new ability was added to the Haki page, it was because it was stated in the series.

Marco could've very well not healed. It's not that far-fetched

He just choose to stay damaged even though he's shown healing instantly every opportunity he gets on-screen?

 

[Kachon123]

Scan?

Scan of him not healing?

 

[RazumaHiroki]

Scan of him not healing?

What Emin said and anything that suggest it.