Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

[Community_Gamer]

1)Ancient magic can be imprinted into the soul

Example? I'm forgetting.

2) Concept magic is powered by will(soul)

Yes. Or at least is a prerequisite.

3)mana is the only thing that can hold concept magic as a spell or divinity stone(crystalized mana).

I guess, but I moreso think of it as mana powering the effect of the magic.

Could those energies have somekind of CM ? or be conceptual because they're created from conception ?

Do you think tanking or resisting say a gravity spell from Ancient Magic gives you CM?

Or another way to ask, do you think the effects of Ancient Magic are also conceptual because the caused by the manipulation of a concept?

If you say no, then that is likely the same for energies and conception. Otherwise everything in series is conceptual.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Example? I'm forgetting.

Didn't you know ?

The circle at the end of the labyrinths, it give people ancient magic by imprinting them into their soul as knowledge. That's why they understood the concept they've got. The circle was based on the Font of knowledge, an artifact in the vampire kingdom that let the current king inherent the knowledge from the previous ones.

For some reason the original owner of ancient magic(liberators) can't gain another one.

Yes. Or at least is a prerequisite.

Does it add anything ?

I guess, but I moreso think of it as mana powering the effect of the magic.

No

If that was true, don't you think he will just use electricity instead of mana ?

Do you think tanking or resisting say a gravity spell from Ancient Magic gives you CM?

In some cases, like if the apostle were built with baseline resistance to ancient magic, they will be resisting the concept itself.

But here is the thing, resisting gravity is not the same as resisting the authority of someone to affect you with gravity manipulation. One of them is a natural phenomenon thing whike the other is a hax .

Or another way to ask, do you think the effects of Ancient Magic are also conceptual because the caused by the manipulation of a concept?

Yes

If you say no, then that is likely the same for energies and conception. Otherwise everything in series is conceptual.

This is different because everything(the multiverse, the great tree power, concepts, people...) come from a higher world.

Maybe ask Expectro about this ?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Didn't you know ?

The circle at the end of the labyrinths, it give people ancient magic by imprinting them into their soul as knowledge. That's why they understood the concept they've got. The circle was based on the Font of knowledge, an artifact in the vampire kingdom that let the current king inherent the knowledge from the previous ones.

For some reason the original owner of ancient magic(liberators) can't gain another one.

I knew that but somehow didn't think of it.

Does it add anything ?

Nah

No

If that was true, don't you think he will just use electricity instead of mana ?

In reference to what Hajime I assume? Depends on the context. I could be wrong though.

In some cases, like if the apostle were built with baseline resistance to ancient magic, they will be resisting the concept itself.

How can you tell? Because resisting the effects would appear the same as resisting the concept. You'd need a very specific statement or a pretty intricate argument to prove it's one over the other.

But here is the thing, resisting gravity is not the same as resisting the authority of someone to affect you with gravity manipulation. One of them is a natural phenomenon thing whike the other is a hax .

That's moreso semantics to the point I was making. I wasn't referring to someone resisting natural gravity but effect of manipulating the concept of gravity. My point is that the result is the same even if the process is very different.

Yes

How would you prove it?

This is different because everything(the multiverse, the great tree power, concepts, people...) come from a higher world.

I don't see how dimensionality and conception overall here. Or in other words, I don't see the relevance of creation originating from a higher dimension in regards to being abstract in existence.

Maybe ask Expectro about this ?

Sure, if you want to.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Keep in mind I'm don't understand CM enough to answere these questions

How can you tell?

How would you prove it?

When Shia was fighting Udar(spirit of lightning), she damaged his soul through soul magic, while Kousuke could damage demons using only mana.


Resistance soul damage from mana isn't the same as resisting soul magic.



We got three feats of space manipulation done by energy. But if someone resisted this they won't get resistance to CM .


1) the apostle could push Naiz space magic by covering her body in magic power

2) Hajime using limit break

3) Shia after fusing mana and spirit element.

I don't see the relevance of creation originating from a higher dimension in regards to being abstract in existence

If and energy is created through converting a 5D energy, isn't it equal to that energy?

Conception=collective thoughts

It's like the chicken and the egg situation. Conception is the source of souls and multiple people can create conception. The DRAGON was called the conception of dragon, the first dragon, the father of dragons and snakes.

We don't have enough info about it, so let's stay away from conception for now.

 

[Noneless21]

This is starting to get really ******* annoying with the feat spam

 

[Community_Gamer]

Keep in mind I'm don't understand CM enough to answere these questions

Do you want talk philosophy？

When Shia was fighting Udar(spirit of lightning), she damaged his soul through soul magic, while Kousuke could damage demons using only mana.


Resistance soul damage from mana isn't the same as resisting soul magic.

So you are saying the difference between (at least in your example) soul magic and soul based attacks as well as magic and mana must be what...being conceptual?

We got three feats of space manipulation done by energy. But if someone resisted this they won't get resistance to CM .


1) the apostle could push Naiz space magic by covering her body in magic power

2) Hajime using limit break

3) Shia after fusing mana and spirit element.

I would generally say that mana is an energy source that can manipulate reality.

If and energy is created through converting a 5D energy, isn't it equal to that energy?

Not necessarily no. That's like saying because God created the universe, the universe must also be equal to God.

Conception=collective thoughts

I wasn't referring to Arifureta's terminology but the philosophical definition.

It's like the chicken and the egg situation. Conception is the source of souls and multiple people can create conception. The DRAGON was called the conception of dragon, the first dragon, the father of dragons and snakes.

Yeah its clearly based off of Plato's Theory of Forms. The Archetypal Form is DRAGON and the Things are beings like Dragonmen, snakes, etc.

We don't have enough info about it, so let's stay away from conception for now.

Ok

 

[Community_Gamer]

This is starting to get really ******* annoying with the feat spam

?

Are you referring to our discussion or....?

 

[Noneless21]

?

Are you referring to our discussion or....?

90% of the discussion is that, so yeah

 

[Digital_Franz]

I love isekai

Chapter 16(slowly): Hajime used space magic to open a portal to another manga.

Chapter 36(rivalry): Shizuku's katana could use magnetic mode after it was upgraded with gravity magic.

Chapter 40(priorities): They used space magic to manipulate the pages of the manga and travel the panels.

You can also find multiple feats for toon force. I recommend reading the whole thing.

This is what is needed.

1)Ancient magic can be imprinted into the soul

2) Concept magic is powered by will(soul)

3)mana is the only thing that can hold concept magic as a spell or divinity stone(crystalized mana).


Could those energies have somekind of CM ? or be conceptual because they're created from conception ?

Maybe.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Example? I'm forgetting.

Yes. Or at least is a prerequisite.

I guess, but I moreso think of it as mana powering the effect of the magic.

Do you think tanking or resisting say a gravity spell from Ancient Magic gives you CM?

Or another way to ask, do you think the effects of Ancient Magic are also conceptual because the caused by the manipulation of a concept?

If you say no, then that is likely the same for energies and conception. Otherwise everything in series is conceptual.

It's a possibility. Tensura is the easiest case for me. Magic is CM1.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Do you want talk philosophy？

Nope

Unless you simplify it

So you are saying the difference between (at least in your example) soul magic and soul based attacks as well as magic and mana must be what...being conceptual?

Maybe

I would generally say that mana is an energy source that can manipulate reality.

Let's not go crazy

Not necessarily no. That's like saying because God created the universe, the universe must also be equal to God.

Except conception is converted into those energies, conception(particles) are converted into of soul and mana(particles).

Yeah its clearly based off of Plato's Theory of Forms. The Archetypal Form is DRAGON and the Things are beings like Dragonmen, snakes, etc.

If you say so

It explain his ability to summon, control or use the power of every "snake" or "dragon".

Most likely, it was one of the authorities of the “Dragon” that ought to be called as “legend reproduction miasma”. Ch 424

Is "dragon factor"=concept of dragon?

It was because the “Dragon” possessed the authority that could interfere with all kinds of dragon. Even when it was only in a state of waking up from sleep, even mythological existences got quasi-revived under its control. That threat was still fresh in their memory.

In addition, Tio who was from a dragon race also wasn’t an exception from that influence.

Due to “Miniature Garden” acting as an isolated space, as well as numerous artifacts defending against the influence, and Tio herself using her age of god magic as well as her own mind resistance, she got off unscathed from the episode but…… Ch 481

Tio and other members of dragon race could transform into dragon was because they as a race had “dragonification factor” mixed into their soul.

That story was something that Hajime and Tio had confirmed between them during the time before the final battle in Tortus, when Tio was learning how to transform other races into black dragon as her new magic.

After all, that magic worked by Tio duplicating her “dragon factor” and inserting it into the target.

「Not to mention, as the result of you continuously enduring the interference of the “Dragon”, you became able to sense your “dragon’s factor” even stronger than before──no, you became able to sense “dragon’s factor” even in other people. Anyone else would also easily reach the same idea if they know that.」

Hajime shrugged and easily spoke something absurd.

「──Even Tio, should be able to do similar thing even if not to the same degree like the “Dragon” shouldn’t she? That kinda idea.」Ch 481

This mean she was transforming monsters and corpses into black dragons by adding this factor into them(Vol 12). Change the soul= change the body
This seem more than just soul manipulation to me.

Possibly CM type 3 for the soul or dragon factor ?

3. Lesser Fundamental Concepts: Concepts that don't meet the same standards as Type 1 or Type 2, such as personal concepts that continue to govern the object in question, merely on a more specific scale, or concepts whose nature is not elaborated upon. Case-by-case specifications and explanations are necessary for such concepts and examples, and they are likely not going to meet the same standards for abilities such as High-Godly regeneration that other concepts may. Conceptual manipulation of this type can be resisted by those who resist sufficiently similar abilities, even if the exact mechanics may differ.

Don't forget that the dragon race was created by Ehit group.