Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

[Digital_Franz]

Like the distance between their planet and the edge of the universe. What else ?

It is not known if they made stops in Galaxies along the way and above all there is no timeframe.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

It is not known if they made stops in Galaxies along the way and above all there is no timeframe.

Here's what happen:

After defeating mother, Hajime left and was sending supplies to rebuild the spaceship( for a period of 1 year max). Then he sent message about him visiting The Machine World in a week, but the time stuff happen and instead of 1 week passing it was 45698 hours(+5 years), during this time the alien invasion happen a year before Hajime arrived . It's about 5 years.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Here's what happen:
After defeating mother, Hajime left and was sending supplies to rebuild the spaceship( for a period of 1 year max). He sent message about him visiting The Machine Xorld in a week and then the time stuff happen and instead of 1 week passing it was 45698 hours, during this time the alien invasion happen a year before Hajime arrived . It's about 5 years.

I see.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Bro I just read so much Arifurtea brain rot.....several pages of missed notfications

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I know this is late, but have you seen the olympic shooting ?

 

[Digital_Franz]

I know this is late, but have you seen the olympic shooting ?

I saw almost nothing.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I saw almost nothing.

Google Yusuf Dikeç.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Here, just to make sure I got someone to translate the part about Avenst. What do you think "Sea of Dimensions" mean ?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Here, just to make sure I got someone to translate the part about Avenst. What do you think "Sea of Dimensions" mean ?

Hmm probably the worlds along the World Tree branches at the lowest interpretation

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Hmm probably the worlds along the World Tree branches at the lowest interpretation

So, this ship can travel the space outside the nine realms.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

About the origin energy:

We have the source energy of the heaven tree being "Conception", and it was described as energy that exist in all the realms.

According to her, the residences of this world were existences that were materialized from the legends of other worlds.

Legends were the wishes and prayers of the people, or perhaps objects of reverence, or even symbols of fear.

Those things were called as “conception” in general. It was a form of energy that was similar to magic power and the like.

And then, this conception existed in any world. The heaven world absorbed those conceptions through the great trees of other worlds, converted them into the unique energy of this world that was called “thought element”, and gave it form. Ch 385

and we have this.

「The sacred tree also exist at other worlds. The words are, connected……is it?」

「My theory is still in the stage of conjecture though. But Harden’s conversion system lent a credence at my theory.」

「Element, was it?」

The revived Kousuke tilted his head while asking. Kouki continued after him with a pondering face.

「If I remember it right, magic power, blessing power, and even the sky dragon power in Grasp Gloria, all will lead to the element (origin) if you follow them back to their root. That was what you said right?」

「That’s right. The sacred tree and great tree――let’s just call all of them the world tree. This thing is most likely a natural conversion system.」

The energies that were flowing in each of their respective world were like elementary particle at physics. It seemed they were made from very small grains that were smaller than each of them.

That was “element”. It was the smallest material that became the base of any kind of energy.

And then, the world trees that existed at each world were absorbing those elements from somewhere and converted them into energy that suited each world they were in and released them out. That was Hajime’s theory.

「There is this kind of legend at my world. There are nine worlds. All of those worlds are contained and supported by a single giant tree.」Ch 381

It was proven by Lutria

Hence, the question was beyond. The knowledge of the goddess.


The atomized souls are reduced to the energy specific to that world and circulate through it. Just as a drop of colored water falls into the flow of a great river, mixing and becoming indistinguishable."

When ...... life is born, a drop scattered from the flow of that river dwells and becomes a soul?"


　Lutria nodded, "Correct. And so life goes around, he said.


「The great tree is an existence to assist or prevent any stagnation in that cycle. It convert the energy in this world to element and expel it to outside the world, and also taking in element from other world in return, then forming the element to form that suit each world before circulating it. It is also a kind of purification facility.」Ch 493

The great tress are sharing this "source energy", this could probably explain the infinite energy and how people are reborn in another world, and that they become one with the collective mind after death.

Is it limited to the Fairy world ?
No, because it seems that the realms share the same source energy

This is just my own interpretation. What do you think ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Anything to add from this ?

Apostle lack a soul, that's why they remain as collective mind after death. Apostle 2.0 manage to create a body from the unique energy of that planet, through converting conception into element of thought. Also remembered doing the same.

「This feeling……don’t tell me, they interfered with the thought element on their own?」

Netemp Mother and Etemp-san bent backward in unison. They also didn’t forget to make their fingers and legs snapped up to point above. An overwhelming smugness radiated from them.

「Using Ehito’s formula to convert piety into magic power as reference, we tried our best with apostle’s knowledge, technique, and also “fighting spirit” that we learned from Shia-sama.」Ch 387

and

Aularodde ignored such exchange and stared fixedly at the materialized Etemp once more.

「This thought element’s density, the massiveness of the conception……has she really been reborn as apparition――」

「You there! I’m a fairy!」

「N-no, you are composed of thought element of another world, so by definition you are apparition――」

「I – am – a – fai – ry!」

「……Yes, you are a fairy. I can’t believe that you are really reborn as a fairy by your own effort. Especially when the world is at its current state.」

If they were here inside the Heaven Tree, there was a foundation for “fairy” to be born here. However, as expected an apparition that was born from the flow of conception of another world couldn’t do that here.

And yet, Aularodde saw it with her own eyes how Etemp formed herself with conception of another world, and furthermore with a vast amount of it.

「The possibility that I can think of is……that you already have a vast amount of conception dwelling within yourself from the start?」Ch 387

Conception is a source energy that exist in all realms, and it's connected by the great trees. That's why the conception of Ehit didn't reach this world until they revived the heaven tree.

「The conception dwelling within Ehito and the conception within us apostles, and in addition sacred beasts that existed in legend and vast amount of conception directed toward magical beasts were mixed chaotically within that lump of meat.」

「And there, master. You shot that conception into it.」

Hajime’s last concept magic “Returning the Agony You Spread Out Back at You It’s Payback For Everything You Have Done, You Shitty Bastard” that finished off a god.

「Within that chaos, the negative emotions from millions, trillions of death that Ehito and we caused brought the concept of death to us, and as the result, we were annihilated together with Ehito down to our particles but……」

「Where did the prayer filled with faithful and pure wish, the positive conception go to? This is the answer.」

The people of Tortus had continuously believed in the existence of a virtuous Ehito. That conception also dwelled within the apostles. It also wasn’t difficult to imagine that other conceptions other than fear were also residing within the monsters of the holy precinct.

Then certainly, it wouldn’t be strange even if the positive conception that was offered to the holy precinct’s existence was still remaining. It also wouldn’t flow into the Fairy World if Ua Alto was still in its withered state and the path was blocked.

「……In other words, the existences of you two are like a hodgepodge of such positive conception?」

「Master, wording.」

「Say it in a cooler way! Mister Aby, please show an example.」

「Eh!? ……You two are an aggregation (cluster) of positive subconscious, something like that?」

「「As expected from the one who has peeked into the abyss of chuuni!」」

「Shaddup! Continue with the explanation already!」Ch 387

Ehit was already converting conception into power, and his last act before death was absorbing the conceptions of everyone inside the holy precinct.

Conception->converted into souls or planet energy by the great trees->life

 

[Digital_Franz]

Here, just to make sure I got someone to translate the part about Avenst. What do you think "Sea of Dimensions" mean ?

Infinite universe? Interesting.

 

[Digital_Franz]

About the origin energy:

We have the source energy of the heaven tree being "Conception", and it was described as energy that exist in all the realms.

and we have this.

It was proven by Lutria

The great tress are sharing this "source energy", this could probably explain the infinite energy and how people are reborn in another world, and that they become one with the collective mind after death.

Is it limited to the Fairy world ?
No, because it seems that the realms share the same source energy

This is just my own interpretation. What do you think ?

I share the same opinion. All worlds share the same energy source.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Infinite universe? Interesting.

Not literally, it was said by Hajime who isn't a reliable source yet, and I think he was refering to the world as a whole.

I share the same opinion. All worlds share the same energy source.

It's a weird mix of conceptual energy and physical energy(particle).

「My theory is still in the stage of conjecture though. But Harden’s conversion system lent a credence at my theory.」

「Element, was it?」

The revived Kousuke tilted his head while asking. Kouki continued after him with a pondering face.

「If I remember it right, magic power, blessing power, and even the sky dragon power in Grasp Gloria, all will lead to the element (origin) if you follow them back to their root. That was what you said right?」

「That’s right. The sacred tree and great tree――let’s just call of them the world tree. This thing is most likely a natural conversion system.」

The energies that were flowing in each of their respective world were like elementary particle at physics. It seemed they were made from very small grains that were smaller than each of them.

That was “element”. It was the smallest material that became the base of any kind of energy.

And then, the world trees that existed at each world were absorbing those elements from somewhere and converted them into energy that suited each world they were in and released them out. That was Hajime’s theory. Ch 381

Stole Harden has probably created this after underdtanding the process

• Element Arrangement Equal Conversion System: An artifact which allows him to convert element, the smallest material that became the base of any kind of energy, into energy.

Here

「……Nn~. Considering how this world reached the domain of age of god magic scientifically……Stole Harden was it? Perhaps that guy had also taken a step into the domain of soul magic?」

「Come to think of it, according to Lutria-san, even soul is originally created from element isn’t it? If it’s that person who created the element converter on his own, it wouldn’t be strange that him giving AI emotion was his approach toward soul.」 Ch 506

The element they're talking about is conception.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Not literally, it was said by Hajime who isn't a reliable source yet, and I think he was refering to the world as a whole.

That's true but hey it can still be considered. And it would only affect the multiverse as you said.

It's a weird mix of conceptual energy and physical energy(particle).

Really.

Stole Harden has probably created this after underdtanding the process

Here

The element they're talking about is conception.

Hmm I see.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Really

Is that a question ?


Yes, it govern and influence the world.

 

[Digital_Franz]

Is that a question ?

Nah.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is conception related to concept magic ?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Is conception related to concept magic ?

I don't think so.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I don't think so.

They're similar in a way, and Ehit used conception to empower himself and resist "god slaying" concept magic.

 

[Digital_Franz]

They're similar in a way, and Ehit used conception to empower himself and resist "god slaying" concept magic.

Yeah maybe it can give some resistance to concept magic.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Yeah maybe it can give some resistance to concept magic.

It also the power source of the almost everyone.

Elemental conception

「Saviro-san, you have the affection of a wind god-sama!」

「We understand because we were born from a wind god-sama!」

「Wind god? What do you mean?」

From their story, it seemed this fairy sisters were the children of a god of this world who originated from the legend of a god related to wind. That was why nobody else could rival them when it came to the sharp sense of sensing the wind.

「But, I only came to this world several hours ago. I never met a wind god you know?」

「Then, perhaps it’s a god in savior-san’s world? There is a strong and pretty presence of wind around you.」

「Yep yep! You see, mister. The wind is connected anywhere in the world. Surely that god too marked you mister so they can sense you wherever you are.」Ch 388

Each world has its own conception, this could help prove concept type 1 in the future.

「……My, it’s true. Perhaps because it’s from different world, even I can’t sense it unless I focus, but certainly I’m feeling a presence of divinity. These children can sense it only because they are the beloved children of a wind god.」

Aularodde made an expression as though she was seeing an unnatural phenomenon. To think that there was someone who felt concerned for this terrifying brute, what kind of wind god with screw loose they could possibly be? Ch 388

More

「It seems the small Heaven Tree is recovering well……yes, I can manage it somehow, but only if the other side is inclined to answer. This doesn’t seem like a mere god of foreign world, but a child of the avatar of another world, it won’t be difficult if I trace the presence of this wind――no, this conception.」

In fact, her presence was coiling around Hajime so thickly it didn’t vanish even when they were separated worlds away. Her action spoke more eloquently than her words. Ch 388

「I don’t know about that. Or rather I don’t understand what kind of law this person called Lutria used to create this child. I can understand why her aptitude is so high if the way she created her was by sharing her own existence, but that should be a difficult method that might destroy herself if she took just a single wrong step. I too can possibly do something like that, but I never considered doing it. I think the possibility of that child having high aptitude coincidentally is higher. Ch 388

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Just remembered this, Kouki was converting this soul into mana.

“Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!”

Though his mana should have been depleted, it flared up again as Kouki screamed, sending a spiral of pure-white energy rising toward the heavens. However—


“Kouki, stop! If you keep going, you’ll kill yourself!” Shizuku screamed.“Wait, he’ll do what?! Shizuku, what’s going on?! I thought you cut off his mana?!”



“I did! I sliced clean through his mana repository! He’s not absorbing the nearby ether to produce more mana!”

“Then how’s he getting more?!”


“By converting something else! I don’t know if he’s using up his life force or his soul or what, but he’s transforming it all into mana! It’s probably something he can do because he can use Limit Break! Either way, this isn’t good!”


“Goddammit, Kouki, come back to your senses already!”

Indeed, Kouki was creating this mana by burning away his own life. Abilities that overturned the natural laws of the universe always came with a steep cost...and they were practically never worth the price. Vol 12 p139

We already know that Limit Break damage the soul.

Soul Manipulation (Limit Break do damage to the soul, so those that can use Limit Break will get their soul permanently damaged if their soul isn't strong enough)

 

[Digital_Franz]

A kind of self-Soul Manipulation.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

A kind of self-Soul Manipulation.

Yes

The stats are influeced by the soul, Limit Break is pushing the soul to the limit instead of the body which result in a stats increase. We also see Laus doing something similar to limit break using soul magic.

Statistics Amplification (Using spirit magic he can remove the limits on his soul, buffing himself from 2x to 5x[10].

 

[Digital_Franz]

It's a good system.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What we know about the world:

There is the origin world where The World Tree exist->smaller branches that grow on a bigger branch->every branch is a world(system) on its own that hold multiple leaves(universes). We also have multiple statments about the possibility of infinite worlds

That was the existence of “possible world”.

According to Foltina, even their nine universes were located on nothing more than a single branch from a major branch that extended from the world tree. Furthermore their universes were nothing more than the leaves that grew at the further end of a smaller branch. There were other branches and leaves beside their branch. Nearby branch would have similar worlds with theirs, while the far away branch could possibly could have worlds with completely different culture and history engraved on them.

Not only that, it might even be possible that there were different major branches that grew from the world tree, where mankind itself didn’t exist there in the first place, where the worlds were completely different, in law of physics, concept, or the world’s underlying principle.

「It’s not a simple story where there’s an origin world and that’s it huh.」

Even a goddess didn’t have a clear grasp of the details or the full picture, they couldn’t. But, as an avatar of a great tree, they simply understood that the world was like that from the moment they were born.

The way to know everything was to access the World Tree──that was to say the origin world, but it seemed their instinct or perhaps their soul warned them. That it was hopeless. That it was beyond them. Their existence itself would warp if they stepped further ahead, that they would never be able to return back to normal. Ch 470

What tier could the origin world reach ?

 

[Digital_Franz]

What we know about the world:

There is the origin world where The World Tree exist->smaller branches that grow on a bigger branch->every branch is a world(system) on its own that hold multiple leaves(universes). We also have multiple statments about the possibility of infinite worlds

What tier could the origin world reach ?

With what is given I think 2-B would be consistent.

We also have multiple statments about the possibility of infinite worlds

If the statements are made by a reliable source and are multiple it could be 2-A.

 

[Community_Gamer]

What we know about the world:

There is the origin world where The World Tree exist->smaller branches that grow on a bigger branch->every branch is a world(system) on its own that hold multiple leaves(universes). We also have multiple statments about the possibility of infinite worlds

What tier could the origin world reach ?

2-B but maybe 2-A

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The origin world has a temporal dimension, it could also be a higher dimenson 5D.

According to Aularodde, it was a world where there was just a single tree with immense size that beggared the imagination.

Hajime recited from his memory with his eyes looking at nowhere in particular.

「――The sky becomes the ground, and the ground becomes the sky. Time is flowing forward while also going in reverse at the same time. Life and death are circulating infinitely. Past, present, and future all lost their meaning there. It’s an eternal world where every possibility is converging.」Ch 386

If they prove the "What If" short story from the LN about each universe having infinite and countless possebilities/timelines, it will make a single universe 2-A.

Possible evidence ?

—The Handsome Rabbit and The Iron Boy

This one’s just one of those alternate timeline stories. As I’m sure you’ve all guessed, it’s based on Ironman. Honestly, if you think about the title of Arifureta, this would probably be a more fitting way for Hajime to get stronger than eating a bunch of monsters. (Whoops.) The rabbit’s kind of in a similar place too. I think you’ll see what I mean once the next mainline volume comes out.

 

[Digital_Franz]

The origin world has a temporal dimension, it could also be a higher dimenson 5D.

It's true that there is a part where it was said that each universe has its own concept of time. With that we can go straight to 1-B, High 1-B depending on the description of the tree.

If they prove the "What If" short story from the LN about each universe having infinite and countless possebilities/timelines, it will make a single universe 2-A.

Yeah.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

It's true that there is a part where it was said that each universe has its own concept of time. With that we can go straight to 1-B, High 1-B depending on the description of the tree.

Can you explain how transcending the concepts of space and time is different than just transcending space-time ?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Can you explain how transcending the cencepts of space and time is different than just transcending space-time ?

Not really transcendence. Just that if each universe has its concept of time, then it has its own temporal axis. Doing, the temporal axis of the dimension which encompassing the universes is therefore a higher time dimension.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Not really transcendence. Just that if each universe has its concept of time, then it has its own temporal axis. Doing, the temporal axis of the dimension which encompassing the universes is therefore a higher time dimension.

Yeah, but that will only get you to Low 1-C (5D). Right ?

 

[Digital_Franz]

Yeah, but that will only get you to Low 1-C (5D). Right ?

So here is what is interesting. If each branch is also a "universe" then it has its own concept of time. Next to this branch there are other branches. All these branches are on a larger branch. By thus increasing the dimensionality increases. However, it is "if" each branch has its own temporal axis.

 

[Community_Gamer]

The origin world has a temporal dimension, it could also be a higher dimenson 5D.

If they prove the "What If" short story from the LN about each universe having infinite and countless possebilities/timelines, it will make a single universe 2-A.

Possible evidence ?

oh my

 

[Community_Gamer]

Can you explain how transcending the cencepts of space and time is different than just transcending space-time ?

Well, transcending the concepts would mean that you aren't bound by dimensionality whatsoever, so that'd be Outerversal. Whereas just transcending space and time is purely contextual to the statement and cosmology being referenced.

 

[Community_Gamer]

So here is what is interesting. If each branch is also a "universe" then it has its own concept of time. Next to this branch there are other branches. All these branches are on a larger branch. By thus increasing the dimensionality increases. However, it is "if" each branch has its own temporal axis.

But being a "larger branch" at that point is pretty subjective and kinda irrelevant in terms of dimensionality unless there's a specific notable size distinction being made. For example, branch A is inaccessibly larger than branch B.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

So here is what is interesting. If each branch is also a "universe" then it has its own concept of time. Next to this branch there are other branches. All these branches are on a larger branch.

We have the major branches of the tree holding smaller branches which aslo hold smaller branches and it continue, then we have leaves on these branches.

Branch= a cosmos(law, concept, physics...) of its own that consist of who know how many universes. Some branches may have simmilar concepts and some may not have some fundamental concepts like time, death... These concepts might be similar but they're limited to that branch.

There were other branches and leaves beside their branch. Nearby branch would have similar worlds with theirs, while the far away branch could possibly could have worlds with completely different culture and history engraved on them.

Not only that, it might even be possible that there were different major branches that grew from the world tree, where mankind itself didn’t exist there in the first place, where the worlds were completely different, in law of physics, concept, or the world’s underlying principle.

The compass can't detect anything outside the nine realms

He summoned the compass on his hand. He toyed with that object that was shaped like pocket watch on his palm while recalling when he searched for existence outside of the nine worlds.

The result went without saying. The compass showed no reaction at all.

Perhaps there was a powerful partition that even the compass was unable to grasp. Or perhaps something like the rule of the world was obstructing it.

Either way, he had no intention of going as far as braving danger just to ascertain it. Ch 470

But, the fact that the compass couldn’t detect the world outside the “nine universes” strangely latched into his mind. Perhaps, existence that came from there was also beyond the power of the compass. Such possibility── Ch 470

Leaves on the branch= the universes of this cosmology.

According to Foltina, even their nine universes were located on nothing more than a single branch from a major branch that extended from the world tree. Furthermore their universes were nothing more than the leaves that grew at the further end of a smaller branch.

So it's
World tree->major branch->smaller branch->the branch that carries the nine realms->Nine Realms