Arifureta Shokugyou de Sekai Saikyou Discussion Thread 2

[Community_Gamer]

there is something similar of Goku and Beerus punch

DBS Battle of Gods speed recalc

vsbattles.fandom.com

We know that a wave of energy being produced by Goku and Beerus was causing the annihilation of U7. This instance far to vague, like who's even scaling to it? And does it make sense?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

We know that a wave of energy being produced by Goku and Beerus was causing the annihilation of U7. This instance far to vague, like who's even scaling to it? And does it make sense?

you're right, but the seven deadly sins sense something, came to Tortus and posses his Golem before the final battle start, and we know that nothing impressive was going on except Hajime's will (denial) making his strongest concept and forcing it on the world, also the 7Ds who are compared to Ehit were able to sense it and he couldn't and we know even lower demons are able to use true ancient magic.
If even the 7Ds don't f with Hajime, don't you think there is a reason for that (possibly Myu).

I only mentioned it because I thought it was impressive like Kratos vs Thor and Goku vs Beerus.

 

[Community_Gamer]

you're right, but the seven deadly sins sense something, came to Tortus and posses his Golem before the final battle start, and we know that nothing impressive was going on except Hajime's will (denial) making his strongest concept and forcing it on the world, also the 7Ds who are compared to Ehit were able to sense it and he couldn't and we know even lower demons are able to use true ancient magic.
If even the 7Ds don't f with Hajime, don't you think there is a reason for that (possibly Myu).

The problem is just the vagueness and if it's the concept magic (unlikely since no one even sensed it at first). And even if it did....it doesn't really scale in a tangible way imo.

I only mentioned it because I thought it was impressive like Kratos vs Thor and Goku vs Beerus.

Potentially yeah

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

just noticed that Aiko doesn't have:
possible large size: king tree and her trent warrior
fire, light and explosion manipulation: Hyrerion, Rose Helios
space manipulation: Mirror Bits bend space
possible limited weather manipulation and a barrier that protect her from it:

• Fertile Rain: Allows the users to create fertile rain.

• Weather Barrier: Allows the users to create a barrier against the weather.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Have you thought about adding some characters ?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

The problem is just the vagueness and if it's the concept magic (unlikely since no one even sensed it at first). And even if it did....it doesn't really scale in a tangible way imo.

Do you think it was caused by Ehit's soul descending into Tortus, he "raise his existence" and according to Yue the 7DS are comparable to Ehit ,and they can travel worlds without using concept magic or water/mirror as a portal, the only characters who can do this are Ehit and Yue, they also have conception.

Even so it was shocking. To think that the people inside Myuu’s Deadly Sin Ranger were actually the kings of the demons.

Before Hajime, the so called Belphegoor (?) said 「No, that’s too insolent in front of the demon king. The likes of us are just mere demons, no, we are just some punk!」 but……

When they showed their seriousness in order to hold back their subordinate demons, their pressure was terrific. Perhaps it was in the level that wasn’t at all inferior compared to Ehito.

They’re dangerous. It’s dangerous that they are in the level that we cannot let our guard down against.

It seems Myuu trust them, but just in case, it’ll be better to display the power of the first wife to them.

Thinking that, today I asked Myuu to take them out.

When that happened, the so called Belphegoor (?) said 「No, it’s really insolent in front of the first wife of the demon king. The likes of us are just some punks, no, we are just the princess’s pet!」.

What should I say, is that really fine? Each time you came out, your “status” just keep getting lower though.

Furthermore it’s you yourself who are lowering it so low like that.

The seven deadly sins are tentatively demon kings who made appearance even in books, you all are legendary demons right?

For some reason it made me felt painful. Just like Myuu said, they aren’t giving me bad feelings, so perhaps it’s fine even if I don’t make a display of my strength. If it feels like they are getting cocky, I’ll discipline them along with Endou too at that time.

Although, that Myuu, getting called as 「Princess!」 by demons of Ehito class, and getting treated with sentiment of deep affection from who knows if it from loyalty or friendship or anything else……

Remia was saying 「Myuu, I wonder where is she planning to head to」 with a faraway look. I think it can’t be helped that she got like that. I also have the same thought after all. ch 320

I know the feat is unusable for anything but who do you think made it Ehit or Hajime ?

 

[Community_Gamer]

Do you think it was caused by Ehit's soul descending into Tortus, he "raise his existence" and according to Yue the 7DS are comparable to Ehit ,and they can travel worlds without using concept magic or water/mirror as a portal, the only characters who can do this are Ehit and Yue, they also have conception.

I know the feat is unusable for anything but who do you think made it Ehit or Hajime ?

Honestly not sure, but probably not Hajime

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Honestly not sure, but probably not Hajime

uncertain but Ehit spending a lot of time in his dimension collecting conception raising his existence which was proved when even concept magic had little effect on him, so him effecting the world with his presence isn't too much.

 

[Community_Gamer]

uncertain but Ehit spending a lot of time in his dimension collecting conception raising his existence which was proved when even concept magic had little effect on him, so him effecting the world with his presence isn't too much.

Agreed

anyway what do you think about the nine realm (#1109)

What exactly do you want me to comment on?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What exactly do you want me to comment on?

Just for fun, which world fit the description?

1)Asgard=Ehit's world: home of the gods, connected to Midgard by a rainbow bridge.
2)Midgard=Earth: home of humans, huge serpent.
3)Jotunheim=Tortus: home of giants, and has a snowy region.
4)Niflheim=Sky dragon world: realm of fog and mist, inhabited by a huge dragon called Nidhogg.
5)Muspelheim=Hell: the land of fire, a burning hot place, filled with lava, flames, sparks, and soot. Muspelheim is the home of fire giants, fire demons
6)Alfheim=Lutria's world: home of light elves, minor gods of nature and fertility; they can help or hinder humans with their knowledge of magical powers.
7)Vanaheim=Fairy world: home of the vanir (old gods) and fairies, their magic is about worshiping and creating a connection between gods and humans.
8)Svartalheim=Factory world: home of dwarves, advanced realm inhabited by master smiths and craftsmen.
9)Helheim=Desert world: home of the dishonorable dead.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Just for fun, which world fit the description?

1)Asgard=Ehit's world: home of the gods, connected to Midgard by a rainbow bridge.
2)Midgard=Earth: home of humans, huge serpent.
3)Jotunheim=Tortus: home of giants, and has a snowy region.
4)Niflheim=Sky dragon world: realm of fog and mist, inhabited by a huge dragon called Nidhogg.
5)Muspelheim=Hell: the land of fire, a burning hot place, filled with lava, flames, sparks, and soot. Muspelheim is the home of fire giants, fire demons
6)Alfheim=Lutria's world: home of light elves, minor gods of nature and fertility; they can help or hinder humans with their knowledge of magical powers.
7)Vanaheim=Fairy world: home of the vanir (old gods) and fairies, their magic is about worshiping and creating a connection between gods and humans.
8)Svartalheim=Factory world: home of dwarves, advanced realm inhabited by master smiths and craftsmen.
9)Helheim=Desert world: home of the dishonorable dead.

That seems pretty spot on

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

That seems pretty spot on

I know, there is also similarity between Loki and Ehit they're both the gods(fake) of trickery, mischief and manipulation, they also rule over the same realm Jotunheim=Tortus.

hoping for: Shia vs Thor and Heracles
or Hajime Solo all the mythologies
Myu tame Fenrir

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is this sub-atomic or macro-quantum manipulation ?

• Elemagia: An artifact as big as a baseball that converts electricity into magic power.
• Element Arrangement Equal Conversion System: An artifact which allows him to convert element, the smallest material that became the base of any kind of energy, into energy.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

Is this sub-atomic or macro-quantum manipulation ?

I think that element can be macro-quatum as that's something I planned to do in the case of an eventual verse specific power page.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

I think that element can be macro-quatum as that's something I planned to do in the case of an eventual verse specific power page.

so machine world's technology is so advanced, they can analyze energy signature on a macro level and detect it on another universe and open a portal to summon someone with the same signature.
and still unable to predict Kouki and Hajime movement or detect Kousuke.

 

[Expectro2000xxx]

so machine world's technology is so advanced, they can analyze energy signature on a macro level and detect it on another universe and open a portal to summon someone with the same signature.
and still unable to predict Kouki and Hajime movement or detect Kousuke.

Don't know what you are talking, Mother only analyzed the residual magical energy of Hajime and tracked (or not even that, she followed the same principle and reverse summoned) the biggest signature of the same nature there was.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Don't know what you are talking, Mother only analyzed the residual magical energy of Hajime and tracked (or not even that, she followed the same principle and reverse summoned) the biggest signature of the same nature there was.

yeah, but the problem is that it targeted Kouki in first time and we know only the tree avatar do this (the machine tree world tree is not destroyed, did it have any influence ?), in Kousuke case it was specifically targeting Hajime's mana (artifacts), and we know Kousuke is second in term of equipment number.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is the DRAGON mind manipulation low multiverse (4D) or it's just conception?

Low Multiversal: Attacks and abilities that are able to reach anywhere within two to one thousand 4-dimensional space-time continuums at the same time.

His influence was reaching other worlds (Fairy world), it didn't affect Tio in the miniature garden because it's separate from the nine realms and world tree.

The last demand that Hajime told Aularodde. Actually this was it.

Specifically, Hajime planned to put the Heaven Tree’s branch that was given to him inside his treasure warehouse and made it grew there to be a completely independent and original world tree that wasn’t connected to the World Tree.

If he made use of Grasp Gloria and the mutual conversion system, the creation of an independent world tree――Treasure Tree surely wouldn’t be impossible. With that, he would be able to create the “world inside the treasure warehouse”――at present its temporary name was “Miniature Garden”――to be more complete. (ED: So this is how the “little garden” in Mondaiji-tachi ga was created…)

After all, it was already changing to be a world where divine spirits were living in. If he assembled the same components like the nine worlds and constructed an independent nature system, it would become an even more complete world.

also this about conception:

「Or is it because of that? Does the Japanese people’s moe soul or gender flip soul reached here across the worlds even without the King Tree?」

It was impossible based on the chronological order, but when he thought of the depth of sinfulness of the Japan’s otakus, it was possible that the conception from them might even crossed time and twisted the legend.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

possible additions:https://vsbattles.com/threads/arifureta-minor-additions.160437/

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Community_Gamer
Do you think this explain how Ehit presence affected the interval ? (even the apostles had a lot of conception let alone Ehit)
and furthermore prove that conception is 4D Concept type?

 

[Noneless21]

Community_Gamer
Do you think this explain how Ehit presence affected the interval ? (even the apostles had a lot of conception let alone Ehit)
and furthermore prove that conception is 4D Concept type?

why 4D?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

why 4D?

sorry, I still don't know how smurf hax work, but It's a concept type 2 .

It's type 2 as a universal concept that exist through all the universes and that define something existence.

It's multiversal .

what does it need to be 4D?

 

[Noneless21]

sorry, I still don't know how smurf hax work, but It's a concept type 2 .

It's multiversal .

what does it need to be 4D?

concept type 2 doesn't equal to 4D, it need to either a. comes from a higher dimensional being/entity or b. able to affect said being

even if it had 4D range, it doesn't automatically had 4D potency

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

it doesn't automatically had 4D potency

could you give an example of 4D potency ?

 

[Noneless21]

a lot of smurfery hax needs case by case basis, like Isekai at Peace where Shallow Vernal, a higher dimensional being can grant smurf resistance with her blessing since her magic power is inherently higher dimensional just like her, and anybody who can pierce through her blessing automatically gets smurf hax

or go search for DMC

in anycase, Arifureta doesn't have them

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

a lot of smurfery hax needs case by case basis, like Isekai at Peace where Shallow Vernal, a higher dimensional being can grant smurf resistance with her blessing since her magic power is inherently higher dimensional just like her, and anybody who can pierce through her blessing automatically gets smurf hax

or go search for DMC

in anycase, Arifureta doesn't have them

yet.

there is other multiverses (branches) outside the nine realms within THE WORLD TREE and the hero is a unique existence whose power come from the world tree as a blessing to keep the balance and protect the world from internal or external danger.

According to the explanation, hero referred to someone with the qualification to become the protector of the “World Tree’s Branch”.

In other words it was the same existence like the avatar of “World Tree’s Branch” like Aularodde, but in case of avatar, they also functioned as the last fortress, so they fundamentally were unable to separate from the “Branch”.

When the world’s balance was starting to go out of order due to internal or external calamity or due to conflict and the like among the lives of that world, the “hero” would shoulder the role of balancer as the hands and feet of the avatar.

That was why, when the avatar sought help and carried out a summoning, it would definitely get connected to the hero. Also, it was because the hero was an existence with the quality that the World Tree recognized, the hero was able to pass through the gap between worlds. Though as the side effect of that, when a hole was drilled open in the gap between worlds, most of the time it would also get connected to the hero.

「And, it seems the necessary quality is “someone who can risk his life for the sake of the many even if he has to cut down his one and only important thing for it”. It really describe that guy.」ch386

and there is plan B (Shia), that's why she was summoned even when Lutria (who can disrupt the crystal key) try to prvent a hero summoning.

The hero's power

『Yes. From what I’m seeing, hero-sama is unable to display your original power sufficiently.』

「Eh? Original power?」

Kouki tilted his head. Seeing that made Foltina looked puzzled instead. She wondered why he didn’t know what she was talking about and glanced at Aularodde. Aularodde, was tilting her head.

『The hero’s original power. In all the worlds, the hero will definitely possess effectiveness toward the energy that is unique to that world.』

「Possess effectiveness?」

『Haven’t you ever experienced your opponent getting weakened when fighting in the hero’s chosen ground?』

「……aa」

He suddenly recalled. Now that she mentioned it there was that ability……. The opponent that entered the light that was radiated by the holy sword would have a weak debuff applied on them.

The effect of that ability to monsters from the holy precinct only felt like measurement error, and it wasn’t effective at all against opponent from other worlds, so he had forgotten about that ability without noticing.

『Hero-sama can interfere and disperse the unique energies of all the worlds through the god’s weapon. That is none other than the real ability of the hero that enable them to become savior across the worlds.』

「Is, that so……」

Most likely, it wasn’t anything like the absolute advantage that Aularodde displayed against the apparitions, but only at the level of “being usable in any kind of world” and “had noticeable effect”.

Of course, for that ability to be definitely effective against the unique energy of any world would already be enough to place it as an extraordinary ability.

『If my brethren who is residing in that holy sword is awakened then you would surely be able to use that ability sufficiently. ……However, Aularodde Lea Refeat. Why hadn’t you taught him despite staying at his side? You have also transformed yourself into god sword haven’t you?』 ch 468

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

what does this mean?

Yes, the one who was called as “anego” by the oni fairies, the oni king who originated from the legend of Shuten Douji――was a terribly beautiful woman.

Kousuke wondered just what kind of legend from other world got mixed that Shuten Douji who was famous as the strongest oni could become a woman.

「Or is it because of that? Does the Japanese people’s moe soul or gender flip soul reached here across the worlds even without the King Tree?」

It was impossible based on the chronological order, but when he thought of the depth of sinfulness of the Japan’s otakus, it was possible that the conception from them might even crossed time and twisted the legend. ch389

does it mean: the conception of today change something nature to make it as "it always been like this"?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

or go search for DMC

just checked DMC and Yamato has interdimensional and low multiverse for being able to create two portals at the same time in different space-time continuum

Yamato (Devil May Cry)

The Yamato is Vergil's trademark dark-forged katana, a legendary sword that was wielded by his father Sparda, when he created it alongside the Rebellion and his own Devil Sword Sparda when the Legendary Dark Knight split his power into 3 pieces, and Sparda named the Yamato as such to embody the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Noneless21]

What i accept is 4D range, what I did not accept is 4D potency

Why? Because there's no mention other than the world tree and the "dragon" that they can significantly affect the entire space time continuum

And yes they (as in the staff) separated smurf range and smurf potency

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What i accept is 4D range, what I did not accept is 4D potency

OK, only their range get an upgrade.

Why? Because there's no mention other than the world tree and the "dragon" that they can significantly affect the entire space time continuum

understood, just to add the DRAGON power let him affect anything related to the concept of dragon because he was mentioned as their ancestor who existed before human history begun.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Does converting mana into divinity stone work the same as mass-energy conversion ?
Does it count as creation?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Arachne:
acid manipulation:

Netemp scratched its head 「Tehe☆」 on his right shoulder. It irritated him so he punched it. Netemp went pew pew at midair for the second time.

This time an assault soldier that was approaching got its two arms melted. It seemed that it was a melting liquid.

「The effect difference is horrible!」ch375

vibration manipulation and adhesive manipulation (spider web):

Over there, Netemp was entangling its spider web at the left gatling gun and pulled it up.

In addition Etemp clung on the enemy from the side and inserted one of its legs into the base of the right gatling. Right after that, kinnn a sharp jarring noise was created. Immediately after, that part crumled and the gatling also feel on the floor.

It was Etemp’s weapon “Vibration Destruction”. It had a compact body, so its endurance was low. Its leg would also crumble if it used that weapon once more, but it wasn’t a bad exchange to take out one of the gatling guns. ch375

Kouki: (exaggeration?)

“Serene Mind”――activated. The light of will vanished from Kouki’s eyes. A tranquility that was like a calm lake surface covered his body. The state of mind without any spirit that was unthinkable to happen in the middle of battle made it possible to actualize a movement that was “extremely difficult to perceive”. This movement would even work against that abyss lord. The slash from that movement had reached the extremity that blew away even time. ch376

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Check this thread about layering that could affect Arifureta:Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

 

[Community_Gamer]

Check this thread about layering that could affect Arifureta:Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

So far haven't seen them talk about Arifureta. I don't remember all superfluous reasoning for 28 layered Soul Hax but based on the new standards it'll definitely decrease.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

So far haven't seen them talk about Arifureta. I don't remember all superfluous reasoning for 28 layered Soul Hax but based on the new standards it'll definitely decrease.

They can still go crazier than that, we never see someone use info magic to upgrade something more than lv2, they can keep getting layers if the author want.
(don't forget about conception)

 

[Community_Gamer]

They can still go crazier than that, we never see someone use info magic to upgrade something more than lv2, they can keep getting layers if the author want.
(don't forget about conception)

By this do you mean, something like Hajime making the effectiveness of some artifact better than before? Because that wouldn't be enough to show a layer of resistance.

I don't really understand conception much at this point since I have read about them where I'm at yet.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

By this do you mean, something like Hajime making the effectiveness of some artifact better than before? Because that wouldn't be enough to show a layer of resistance.

Information magic can raise the lv, potency, effectiveness of anything( will, stats, power, race, concept, ancient magic) by one stage at a time, that's why all we saw until now is making something lv2, even concept magic can be artificially produced by raising the will and making it higher than reality.

I don't really understand conception much at this point since I have read about them where I'm at yet.

which arc you reached?
Conception= collective consciousness
It can shape reality, give characters abilities and raise someone existence(concept) by having too much of it to the point he can affect reality with his presence alone like Ehit shaking the interval of worlds, and probably the reason he needed a strong body to possess like Yue.
maybe the reason some characters were a threat to Hajime and his group in the after story is because of conception, named demons have it, apparition whose power come from conception were able to give a decent fight, let's not forget all of them were weakened, the DRAGON was literally fighting from the grave.
It's kind of interesting how will and imagination affect reality in Arifureta.

This is just my assumption , I'll wait until Expectro explain it.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

It could help if we have a cosmology page.

 

[Community_Gamer]

Information magic can raise the lv, potency, effectiveness of anything( will, stats, power, race, concept, ancient magic) by one stage at a time, that's why all we saw until now is making something lv2, even concept magic can be artificially produced by raising the will and making higher than reality.

I see the point you are making and I agree. Its a matter of demonstrating that chain resistance for every subsequent layer.

which arc you reached?

In WN, I'm on Ch 348. Although I skipped Abyssgate arc so I'll read it later.

Conception= collective consciousness
It can shape reality, give characters abilities and raise someone existence(concept) by having too much of it to the point he can affect reality with his presence alone like Ehit shaking the interval of worlds, and probably the reason he needed a strong body to possess like Yue.
maybe the reason some characters were a threat to Hajime and his group in the after story is because of conception, named demons have it, apparition whose power come from conception were able to give a decent fight, let's not forget all of them were weakened, the DRAGON was literally fighting from the grave.
It's kind of interesting how will and imagination affect reality in Arifureta.

Is it collective consciousness or unconscious?

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Is it collective consciousness or unconscious?

It's collective Consciousness.
It depend on what people think instead of the instinctual side and it's changing unlike C.U.
If people recognize someone as s god he'll get stuff related to it like divinity, immortality...

just thought about it.
the demon planet is weird, it got 9 layers, each gap between the clouds and the ground is a different circle of hell(stratum), Kousuke was fighting in the upper stratum(1st layer), while Hajime and Shia were teleported to the lowest stratum (9th layer) where the 7DS are suppose to be and dug their way to Kousuke using Shia's hammer.
Do you think it's natural or influenced by conception (inspired by Dante's Inferno)?

In WN, I'm on Ch 348. Although I skipped Abyssgate arc so I'll read it later.

I get you.
I read the raw chapter comments and he's very likable by Japanese.