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Disagree based on the debunks posted for it here
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Can you close this thread? It was already debunked to death. If anything, I think we should add this to the Discussion Rules:That's pointless. A concise rule explaining why these sorts of threads are forbidden works.
It’s rare that I agree with Kukui nowadays butneedless to say I disagree.
Strym seems to have written up a good one here. Does anyone think this looks good, needs more editing or anything else?Can you close this thread? It was already debunked to death. If anything, I think we should add this to the Discussion Rules:
Eh.... I thought that those statements were mostly referring to their True forms.Okay, for one, you do realize that Dialga and Palkia are both literal time and space, yes?
I'm still kind iffy about this why we should take this arguments seriously? Those could very well be some hyperbole statements which just imply that Plakia and Dialga are Time and space manipulators unless You think Plakia is 3D Physically and Dilaga is 4D?yes? They are not some simple time and space manipulators, they are time and space
Considering most of Thier consistent low ends showings say otherwise then it's safe to assume that those are just pure hax instead of them being Real AP attacks.As such, the power that they use for destroying anything isn't simply just time and space hax for them. Especially when the 2's own signature moves, which are clearly actual attacks, are time and space based moves.
The problem is that they aren't destroying the space and time normaly, they are doing this by distorting space and time (Dialga does distort time and Palkia does distort space) and this results on the destruction of the universe as shown in the manga IIRC it was stated in the manga that Dialga main ability is to Distort time and Plakia main ability is to distort space and when they combine those powers (in a battle for example) it would result on the destruction of the Universe by merging future, past, present due to a chain reaction, the fact that other people were able to survive the distortion shows that it's not a truly done via AP.Even then, "time" and "space" clashing together is not indicative of simply being hax. This is akin to saying that any universe creator, multiverse creator, and upward are simply using time and space hax to do their feats, which is an obvious no.
It's not headcanon it's called Context clues, due to Arceus and the Creation Trio low ends feats being consistent then it's safe to assume that his 2-A and Low 2-C feats are just pure hax and AP wasn't completely involved, it really doesn't make sense to see Normal Pokémons harming the Creation Trio every time they show up, 1 anti feat? Okay maybe it's Pis, 2 to 3 anti feats ? It's okay I'll ignore that , 8 anti feats? Okay I'll close my eyes for this shit, but more then 20 anti feats?? (I counted and they are far more then that) unless The Creator is a big moron who always forget about the massive AP difference this clearly isn't logical.So an absolute no to this. The feats being "just time and space hax" are head-canon from the OP and are unsupported by anything but personal interpretation.
IIRC their clash together and by combining their space-time powers it created a Portal that was going to swallow the whole Universe which was Cyrus plane.Uh, unless im remembering it incorrectly, this was them opening the portal to the Distortion World instead. But even then, the portal being there can also just as easily be the portal to the new universe they are making for Cyrus, which is destroying the old in the process of it's creation.
I'm pretty sure... That this wasn't the case for the Manga but anyway it doesn't change the fact that the Universe was being destroyed due the Portal so that still should not scale to Thier AP and durabilityAnd yes, the franchise has shown this before through the anime. Dialga and Palkia's new universe for Cyrus in the anime has a portal leading into it, which clearly depicts an actual universe in the making inside of it, while the old is getting destroyed. This here in the manga wouldn't be any different.
Or it could just be that those Raw energy attacks aren't just AP but also Hax? Even if they are literally AP attacks as long some kind of hax was involved then it doesn't truly scale to their AP the low ends feats are still a supporting evidence.First of all, the anime by itself again debunks you on this. Dialga and Palkia used literal raw energy to make Cyrus's universe there.
And since when we did that?Second, distorting space time when effecting the universe =/= hax only. And with this sites standard of even treating reality warping as enough to directly scale characters to a given tier, this supports me even more.
Never denied that.And third, if you actually knew what your talking about, you would know that the distortion world also blatantly prevents universes from being destroyed in Pokemon. Cause you know, it maintains the balance between time and space. And this is outright said to be the case in the games (and manga most likely).
Yeah but these downgrade attempts have been coming up too often lately that its getting repetitive.I don’t think this appears often enough to make a discussion rule. That’s for the really big things.
No offense tbh but that simply due to the the Profiles are shit, most of the abilities and AP feats aren't well explained in the Profile and a lot of them aren't linked with any evidence to begin with and this even in the respect threads, that's why people think that Pokémon is wanked on this site. Don't expect for anyone to try and find separated respect threads from North, east, south, west and then read the whole thing And the feats in those respect threads aren't even well explained in the first placeWell, as much as I think this thread is to be honest, not that great. We do have to remember that Pokemon has had a bunch of upgrades (some pretty questionable. Not the 2-A stuff though, just....the other shit. But I don't care enough to deal with that), so there being some people creating downgrades is to be expected. Just deal with them as they come, and if we get like 1 or 2 more that repeat the same shit we see here then yeah, make a Discussion Rule.
That doesn't matter. The point here is that time to Dialga, is as physical to it as space is to Palkia. Because they literally are what they use, what they govern and what they apply into their attacks.Eh.... I thought that those statements were mostly referring to their True forms.
I'm still kind iffy about this why we should take this arguments seriously? Those could very well be some hyperbole statements which just imply that Plakia and Dialga are Time and space manipulators unless You think Plakia is 3D Physically and Dilaga is 4D?
Hyperbole
Except, they don't say otherwise. Because that's not how this works.Considering most of Thier consistent low ends showings say otherwise then it's safe to assume that those are just pure hax instead of them being Real AP attacks.
Again, okay? They can literally do the same thing with their actual attacks and space-time distortions being brought about from the destruction of a universe, multiverse or any given cosmic structure is literally nothing new in tier 2 and upward.The problem is that they aren't destroying the space and time normaly, they are doing this by distorting space and time (Dialga does distort time and Palkia does distort space) and this results on the destruction of the universe as shown in the manga IIRC it was stated in the manga that Dialga main ability is to Distort time and Plakia main ability is to distort space
For one, the humans and pokemon "survived" the distortions by moving in the parts where the distortions are the weakest, and even with that, outliers are still a thing. Provided you use and actually apply them in the correct manner.and when they combine those powers (in a battle for example) it would result on the destruction of the Universe by merging future, past, present due to a chain reaction, the fact that other people were able to survive the distortion shows that it's not a truly done via AP.
They aren't consistent. Thats your personal interpretation that's proved by nothing.It's not headcanon it's called Context clues, due to Arceus and the Creation Trio low ends feats being consistent
See above. It isn't.then it's safe to assume that his 2-A and Low 2-C feats are just pure hax and AP wasn't completely involved,
Stop over exaggerating the actual anti feats here when these anti feats (which some are already self-contradicting in and of themselves) are not as big as your trying to make them out to be.it really doesn't make sense to see Normal Pokémons harming the Creation Trio every time they show up, 1 anti feat? Okay maybe it's Pis, 2 to 3 anti feats ? It's okay I'll ignore that , 8 anti feats? Okay I'll close my eyes for this shit, but more then 20 anti feats?? (I counted and they are far more then that) unless The Creator is a big moron who always forget about the massive AP difference this clearly isn't logical.
You would still be wrong on this point for the earlier one I gave, but it doesn't matter as Ex confirmed the debunk anyway. Charon was using them to create a portal to the distortion world instead of making Cyrus's universe. So your point here goes straight out the window.IIRC their clash together and by combining their space-time powers it created a Portal that was going to swallow the whole Universe which was Cyrus plane.
Or the universe was being destroyed by the new universe they were making. Which is most certainly the case.I'm pretty sure... That this wasn't the case for the Manga but anyway it doesn't change the fact that the Universe was being destroyed due the Portal so that still should not scale to Thier AP and durability
Uh.....what? Energy is not hax....Or it could just be that those Raw energy attacks aren't just AP but also Hax?
And that's more bullshit. Attacks can absolutely have a hax effect to them and still be literal AP. Arguing energy is somehow pure hax is just being dishonest and giving nonsense.Even if they are literally AP attacks as long some kind of hax was involved then it doesn't truly scale to their AP the low ends feats are still a supporting evidence.
Since always.And since when we did that?
Instead of saying "We should make a discussion rule why don't you fix the profiles first?Anyways, if we aren't goin to add a discussion rule after all, then I guess this can be re-closed.
You know it's not anyone's fault if a lot of people want to downgrade those Pokémons it's you guys fault for not posting enough evidence on their profile to backup you guys claims I'm not gonna waste my time searching for respects threads from North, east, south, west and then read the whole thing because from I saw in their Profiles the AP justification wasn't enough and it made me feel that those 2-A feats were done Via hax and even by reading the respect threads most of the AP feats weren't explained well, so to recap (and no offense tbh) the Profiles are shit, most of the abilities and AP feats aren't well explained in the Profile and a lot of them aren't linked with any evidence to begin with and this even in the respect threads, that's why people think that Pokémon is wanked on this site
Eh I really didn't knew about the new blogs and stuff and actually you guys are gonna do this shit now ? It's something that should have been done a long time ago, I was even asking questions in the "Questions and answers" board but no one was answering properly and they were giving me 0 scans of course to support their claimsExecutor has said multiple times that he's going to be making blogs for the verse in the same way he does Digimon, so like...if people could just wait instead of spamming the same revisions over and over, perhaps the files can be fixed to your liking.
Also no offense but you would have known about these revisions and are a member of this site. So what's your excuse for not reading the CRTs for this stuff which h
About the true forms and a lot of other stuff because everything seemed to be iffy for me at this pointI've told the Pokemon people to create blogs for ages now. However, Ex has finally started tackling the verse to get everything more easy to find and sourced.
What were these questions you were asking considering some questions can be answered by pure common sense.
Or you can drop the attitude and stop acting like we aren't aware. We know the pages aren't up to the gold standard of well explained, as I've complained about before as well.Instead of saying "We should make a discussion rule why don't you fix the profiles first?
Or you should just stop being lazy and taking a lot of time to fix a damm profile profileOr you can drop the attitude and stop acting like we aren't aware. We know the pages aren't up to the gold standard of well explained, as I've complained about before as well.
Yes actual lives because I think it takes 90 years to fix a profile I guess.But not everyone has the time to do a mass big project of updating the pages already existing info (and adding in stuff that needs to be added already) for people have, you know, actual lives
And it's also not my problem or anyone's problem if you guys are lazy to make at least some small adjustments for a single profileit's also not mine or anyone else's problem that you want to be spoon fed every bit of info as possible instead of using pure common sense to do it for you.
Drop the attitude. Now.Or you should just stop being lazy and taking a lot of time to fix a damm profile profile
Yes actual lives because I think it takes 90 years to fix a profile I guess.
And it's also not my problem or anyone's problem if you guys are lazy to make at least some small adjustments for a single profile
Well my appollogies I got a little bit angryDrop the attitude. Now.
Yet you didn't continue the conversation or ask for anything? Based on what we see, you just deleted your question and moved on. Hell, you only gave them a day to reply before you deleted your comment, leading to the thread dying for a whole month.Here's an example
There's literally no reason to over a page dude.Well my appollogies I got a little bit angry
Because I gived up as every time i ask something about Pokémons I just see some simple answers and most of them aren't backed up by any evidence, I even once asked where did the true forms come from but of course they were posting quotes and claims without scans I was also asking Professor Kuki but he wasn't giving me any answers he told me that everything I'm asking is on the profiles but when I check the profiles I still see no proper evidence linkedYet you didn't continue the conversation or ask for anything? Based on what we see, you just accepted it and moved on.
That thread doesn't show that. That thread you posted shows you guys arguing context over a statement about Giratina's banishment. And the moment you ask a question, you delete it after only giving them a day to answer leading to no one being able to answer likely due to not being available at the time. Now where is this situation you are talking about?Because I gived up as every time i ask something about Pokémons I just see some simple answers and most of them aren't backed up by any evidence, I even once asked where did the true forms come from but of course they were posting quotes and claims without scans I was also asking Professor Kuki but he wasn't giving me any answers he told that everything I'm asking is on the profiles but when I check the profiles I still see no proper evidence linked
Did you ...even read anything I said? I give up just close this thread I didn't say anythingThat thread doesn't show that. That thread you posted shows you guys arguing context over a statement about Giratina's banishment. And the moment you ask a question, you delete it after only giving them a day to answer leading to no one being able to answer likely due to not being available at the time. Now where is this situation you are talking about?
Well my appollogies for being a bother I just wanted have more informations about the Pokémon profiles that's all what I wanted.Because again, pure common sense can literally answer majority of the questions you have asked before instead of spoon feeding you every bit of precise information.
Yes, I read, but what you're saying doesn't add up when discussing the thread you linked, but whatever.Did you ...even read anything I said? I give up just close this thread I didn't say anything