Anos vs Exdeath

[Bobsican]

I think this'd be better suited for a CRT at this point.

 

[imZer0Null]

I think he's just blatantly ignoring the other arguments I've presented.
Even if his "original point" is correct, that then being that "hax potency is not determined by a character's amount of magic power", I have provided other evidence that still proves that characters can deepen their magic to overpower resistances and that deeper order>shallower order, so I really don't see what he's even arguing for anymore. It just seems like he's arguing for the sake of arguing tbh.

 

[Theglassman12]

So you're not going to remotely give me an actual translation for the deep stuff? Ok glad to know this was a waste of time. Either way, I don't see Anos stomping Exdeath here and Exdeath has numerous abilities he lacks any resistance for that would work on him.

 

[Dereck03]

So you're not going to remotely give me an actual translation for the deep stuff? Ok glad to know this was a waste of time. Either way, I don't see Anos stomping Exdeath here and Exdeath has numerous abilities he lacks any resistance for that would work on him.

What is Exdeath's first move?

 

[Theglassman12]

Literally existing and Anos would be corrupted, driven mad, being warped into chaos, and other stuff. Subjective reality with literally any magic, Grand Cross that inflicts any status ailments that renders him unable to fight that he spams in his final fight. Sealing with the crystals, possessing Anos should he be backed into a corner.

 

[Dereck03]

Literally existing and Anos would be corrupted, driven mad, being warped into chaos, and other stuff. Subjective reality with literally any magic, Grand Cross that inflicts any status ailments that renders him unable to fight that he spams in his final fight. Sealing with the crystals, possessing Anos should he be backed into a corner.

On Anos' side we have him negating any power even before/after it affects him destroying the reason that it ever affected him

This magic eye can make events that will certainly happen and/or already happened never happen, by destroying reason and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning. In other words, as one possible use of this magic eye, Anos can destroy a power after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of the power and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with

We have Venuzdonoa in the field and MEoCD that have layered EE, Power Null, Logic, Law & Cm for both Venuz and his eyes that will automatically destroy Exdeath. Certainly, Exdeath has powers that can affect Anos but in no way kill him, while Anos is free to destroy him countless times. Null forgot to mention it, but there are 2 more powers that are layered in Anos' profile, which are HGR Negation and Resistance Negation. Anos can bypass the resistance to Cm and negate the Immortality and regeneration of a god at the same time, but this changes every time he reaches a deeper world, because he needs deepen certain abilities he is not able to destroy the concept nor negate the immortality and regeneration, only after deepen his attacks (such as besbed) he can destroy the concept and then permanently kill the gods that possess HGR and resistance to it. And let's argue that knowing you I know you're not going to accept it, suppose Anos can't permanently kill Exdeath, Anos will just keep killing him countless times. The point is, this is decided by first move, in which Anos has the full advantage of having a passive offensive power countless times superior to Exdeath and his eyes negating abilities that try to affect him even if they already affected him or not. + Venuzdonoa in the field

 

[Theglassman12]

How exactly does he negate the power? What does he need to do to activate the power?

Also can you give me exact scans of this working exactly as it is?

even if Anos keeps killing Exdeath numerous times it’s not a win because Exdeath keeps coming back to life. This is a stalemate at best as the fight will just last forever.

 

[Dereck03]

How exactly does he negate the power? What does he need to do to activate the power?

Also can you give me exact scans of this working exactly as it is?

You can check this

even if Anos keeps killing Exdeath numerous times it’s not a win because Exdeath keeps coming back to life. This is a stalemate at best as the fight will just last forever.

This would only be valid if we assume that Anos cannot permanently kill Exdeath which he can since he can permanently kill gods that have above baseline resistance to HGR. But if we assume that Anos cannot kill Exdeath permanently, then repeated kills would count as Incap and this in turn would be a stomp since no matter how many times Exdeath revives, it would be destroyed by MEoCD or Venuzdonoa with no chance to do anything.

 

[Theglassman12]

So Anos has to be remotely conscious for the eyes to activate. That doesn’t seem helpful when possession and corruption are being factored in here.

Which characters exactly have HGR negation resistance that Anos killed? Because I don’t see anyone there.

And again he’d still be alive meaning he never goes down and the cycle just repeats leaving the fight to go on forever.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Which characters exactly have HGR negation resistance that Anos killed? Because I don’t see anyone there.

Graham

 

[Dereck03]

So Anos has to be remotely conscious for the eyes to activate. That doesn’t seem helpful when possession and corruption are being factored in here.

No, there was already a debate about this, the power had already affected him previously before Anos made a move, that is emphasized in the chapter, but in the same way the power had already been destroyed even affecting Anos, later Anos mentions that it was thanks to his MEoCD. In other words, before he opened his MEoCD the power had been destroyed. There was also a recurring problem of whether Anos always used this magic eye or not, fortunately I gave it a solution.

Why he doesn't use everytime his eyes in his verse?

He can't cuz he fear of at the very, very least the universe being destroyed, this is fine, but we saw Anos using then in the demon king garden (we know the reasons tho, was a 3-layered world durable enough specifically made so that anos could use his eyes and his power without much limitation (and even he limited them)), and for vs debates is able to freely use them cuz the match normally will take place in a neutral place and not his verse. (in other words, Anos will not have that limitation anymore and we saw before if there isn't that limitation, he could use his eyes and his power). This makes sense when you see that Anos will always choose to use his magic eye if he is in a neutral place, outside of his world or somewhere specially designed so that he can release even a little of MEoCD's power. See Anos vs Elmide)

"It's chaotic destruction. The power of these magic eyes is the essence of destruction, but it's extremely chaotic.

No matter how much I look into it, I can't even see the bottom.

Even if I wanted to check, if I opened my eyes properly, the world would not endure." (Anos)

A power that destroys even the indestructible. Even that is merely an after-effect spilling out from the [Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction].

Even if you try to see its true power, merely by opening these magic eyes, the world begins to collapse and become chaotic.

Even he, who was called the Demon King of Tyranny, could not bring himself to check what would happen if he opened his eyes.

Therefore, its power is suppressed to the utmost limit and then released.

By doing so, the [Magic Eyes of Chaotic Destruction] emit the power to destroy order.

Which characters exactly have HGR negation resistance that Anos killed? Because I don’t see anyone there.

All gods in MGnF can regenerate from the destruction of their concept, Anos and Venuzdonoa can negate this regeneration without problems, in the case of Anos he can destroy the concept of his opponent and negate his immortalities and regeneration, but when he faced gods from deeper worlds (Yzak for example), he could not even affect his source, while to shallow gods he could destroy his source and negate his immortality and regeneration. This is not the case with Venuzdnoa, Venuzdonoa itself destroys everything and bypass any kind of resistance.

We have Graham who can come back from the destruction of his source and his nothingness even if his regeneration is being completely negated by venuzdonoa not being able to regenerate and only remaining as his true nothingness.

 

[Delta333]

Yeah the source doesn't sound like a type 2 concept at all, going through the cosmology blog where it's describing the source that sounds more like a type 3 concept than a type 2 given it's governing something very specific rather than all of reality.

Don't care about layered concepts type 1 but yea I hard agree with type 3 concept of source, literally have know idea why it's type 2

gods that have above baseline resistance to HGR

How

Graham

Anos never killed Graham permanently, he absorbed instead

 

[Dereck03]

Don't care about layered concepts type 1 but yea I hard agree with type 3 concept of source, literally have know idea why it's type 2

jijijijij, i still waiting your downgrade for this
Sources function mostly the same as "Dependent Concepts", except that they govern a living thing's entire existence across present, past and future. The last is just a quote. I don't know how you plan to accommodate that in Type 3, but that's your problem, not mine.

How

Every deep layer god

 

[Theglassman12]

That's not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing that incapacitating Anos to not being able to make any decisions for himself will prevent him from using the eyes, especially when he becomes corrupted and becomes a servant of the void for exdeath, or when Exdeath controls his entire body and takes over his conscious with possession, or just being petrified on the spot among other things that prevent him from being able to use the eyes.

That doesn't sound like a resistance feat, that sounds more like a weakness of the magic not affecting something higher, do these gods actually tank a regen negating weapon on a high godly level and heal just fine only for Anos to affect them? Because you need an extraordinary amount of evidence for something like layered regen negation.

Yeah idk why Graham's being used as an argument as last time I checked Anos never killed him, he had to absorb his source.

 

[Delta333]

jijijijij, i still waiting your downgrade for this
Sources function mostly the same as "Dependent Concepts", except that they govern a living thing's entire existence across present, past and future. The last is just a quote. I don't know how you plan to accommodate that in Type 3, but that's your problem, not mine.

Duh concept type 2 is not just dependent concept, it need to govern object on large scale, while in case of source it outright governs specific concept of one person

Also I haven't made any downgrade thread because currently I need to focus on my new part time job and stuffs on university, hence why recently I haven't made any CRT for anything, not because I realize source type 2 is correct or something

Plus using emojis on a debate is not only cringe but also may cause the thread to become toxic, so if you can be more professional, please do, thank you

Every deep layer god

God tier explanation

 

[Bobsican]

I'm just going to remind that the range of a concept isn't really necessary anymore. One could have a primordial concept of a single person bound to themselves and qualify for type 1.

 

[Dereck03]

That's not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing that incapacitating Anos to not being able to make any decisions for himself will prevent him from using the eyes, especially when he becomes corrupted and becomes a servant of the void for exdeath, or when Exdeath controls his entire body and takes over his conscious with possession, or just being petrified on the spot among other things that prevent him from being able to use the eyes.

The powers are being destroyed even before Anos affirms the use of his magic eye, that is the nature of MEoCD, then Anos reaffirms the use of it, in battle Anos will always be willing to use his magic eye both defensively and offensively, unless he is in the world of militia or some place in his verse where he has to restrain to the limit as much as his true power and MEoCD. This is especially confirmed by Anos himself who says that he cannot use his full power because it is being limited so as not to destroy the fragile world. In other words, this magic Eyes will be always active.

That doesn't sound like a resistance feat, that sounds more like a weakness of the magic not affecting something higher, do these gods actually tank a regen negating weapon on a high godly level and heal just fine only for Anos to affect them? Because you need an extraordinary amount of evidence for something like layered regen negation.

Certainly Anos can use <Giginuvenuens> which decapitates the target and destroys its source and bypasses its immortality and regeneration, destroying the target permanently. This works similarly to Bebesd a purely conceptual attack made purely to bypass regeneration and immortality. This like bebesd has no effect on deeper world inhabitants until deepen.

Yeah idk why Graham's being used as an argument as last time I checked Anos never killed him, he had to absorb his source.

Graham can regenerate as much as from destruction of his source, source of nothingness and true nature even if his regeneration is being negated by Venuzdonoa just by merely being summoned, graham was seen not being able to regenerate his normal source (one can say that it was because his source of nothingness took the place of his normal source, which can be said to be correct as well.) and then the source of nothingness and only remaining as his true nothingness until venuzdonoa wasn't in the field he could regen his normal source. Just a note.

Duh concept type 2 is not just dependent concept, it need to govern object on large scale, while in case of source it outright goversns specific concept of one person

Also I haven't made any downgrade thread because currently I need to focus on my new part time job and stuffs on university, hence why recently I haven't made any CRT for anything, not because I realize source type 2 is correct or something

But we discussed that last year, it wasn't recently, but I understand you're busy so no problem.

Plus using emojis on a debate is not only cringe but also may cause the thread to become toxic, so I you can be more professional, please do, thank you

I used them because the last debate we had about it seemed to be a little aggressive and I don't want you to think I'm angry or anything like that, just chill. Apologies.

 

[Delta333]

I'm just going to remind that the range of a concept isn't really necessary anymore. One could have a primordial concept of a single person bound to themselves and qualify for type 1.

As long as said concept is not personal and specific, sure

I used them because the last debate we had about it seemed to be a little aggressive and I don't want you to think I'm angry or anything like that, just chill.

Can you link to the last debate about this resistance?

 

[Dereck03]

Can you link to the last debate about this resistance?

Sure i think you're referring to this

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

That's not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing that incapacitating Anos to not being able to make any decisions for himself will prevent him from using the eyes, especially when he becomes corrupted and becomes a servant of the void for exdeath, or when Exdeath controls his entire body and takes over his conscious with possession, or just being petrified on the spot among other things that prevent him from being able to use the eyes.

That doesn't sound like a resistance feat, that sounds more like a weakness of the magic not affecting something higher, do these gods actually tank a regen negating weapon on a high godly level and heal just fine only for Anos to affect them? Because you need an extraordinary amount of evidence for something like layered regen negation.

Only Reason he doesn't use his eyes in his verse is because of worlds getting destroyed passively. But in character he still uses if the world he is in really strong enough to hold its power. So this match up I don't see why he doesn't use it at the beginning only.

How exactly does he negate the power? What does he need to do to activate the power?

Also can you give me exact scans of this working exactly as it is?

even if Anos keeps killing Exdeath numerous times it’s not a win because Exdeath keeps coming back to life. This is a stalemate at best as the fight will just last forever.

Anos can just absorbs him just like how he did with Graham.

Yeah idk why Graham's being used as an argument as last time I checked Anos never killed him, he had to absorb his source.

He Completely absorbed him and can use his nothingness as his own ability. He can still use that.

 

[Dereck03]

That said, I've said enough to prove my point and no adequate counterargument has been seen., I won't continue with this thread even if I wanted to, I have midterms coming up and I won't have time to even debate.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Dereck03 so again he has to activate the powers for the eyes to kick in, so he'd need to be conscious to use the ability in the first place, which isn't going to help Anos if he's incapacitated by abilities that remove his ability to process like being possessed or becoming a servant to the Void with Exdeath, alongside like other spells that make him change alignments.

So it's a weakness that the ability needs to be on a certain level for it to work rather than the gods actually having onscreen showings of withstanding attacks that neg their regen and still coming back.

That sounds like Venuzdonoa was just keeping him at bay until he came back, not that his wounds were rendered unhealable.

@Nightmare_Bloodfallen Because he's dealing with passive abilities he has no showings of resistance or countering which would result in an instant win.

How much is the range for the absorption? Because he's dealing with an omnipresent being on a 2-A scale.

What does this even debunk? He still didn't null his regen and he came back.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

didn't know this thread got revived.

also, you need to affect his source if you want to corrupt/possess his mind/soul since all of it is in his source which exist deeper

 

[kuramamyfav68]

@Dereck03 so again he has to activate the powers for the eyes to kick in, so he'd need to be conscious to use the ability in the first place, which isn't going to help Anos if he's incapacitated by abilities that remove his ability to process like being possessed or becoming a servant to the Void with Exdeath, alongside like other spells that make him change alignments.

So it's a weakness that the ability needs to be on a certain level for it to work rather than the gods actually having onscreen showings of withstanding attacks that neg their regen and still coming back.

That sounds like Venuzdonoa was just keeping him at bay until he came back, not that his wounds were rendered unhealable.

@Nightmare_Bloodfallen Because he's dealing with passive abilities he has no showings of resistance or countering which would result in an instant win.

How much is the range for the absorption? Because he's dealing with an omnipresent being on a 2-A scale.

What does this even debunk? He still didn't null his regen and he came back.

His mind/soul are in his source, and you need 99x layers of conceptual hax for that. He can cast magic as his source. Range isn't an issue. He negs at least 2 layers of high-godly.

 

[Theglassman12]

When did corruption remotely require affecting the mind and soul? Same with possession as that has absolutely no relation to affecting concepts or soul.. Also range is an issue when his absorption has no showings of doing anything on that level, and again I haven't seen any source or scans to prove he has this layered high godly resistance negation.

 

[Delta333]

His mind/soul are in his source, and you need 99x layers of conceptual hax for that

This is wrong tho, his source doesn't have this resistance

He negs at least 2 layers of high-godly

He doesn't, and HGR neg has nothing to do with being able to absorb 2-A multiverse

 

[theultimate5105]

Also it is wrong regardless as you only need to effect it with hax that it does not resist you don’t need layered concept hax to do so

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Nightmare_Bloodfallen Because he's dealing with passive abilities he has no showings of resistance or countering which would result in an instant win.

Anos uses his as in character from the beginning and his eyes erases concept of Reason and even concepts of speed doesn't matter. Why don't you check his eyes abilities first.

How much is the range for the absorption? Because he's dealing with an omnipresent being on a 2-A scale.

Where did you get omnipresent thing ? His profile says immeasurable.

What does this even debunk? He still didn't null his regen and he came back.

Send scan for Graham coming back after being absorbed. All i am seeing is you are just making your own headcanon.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This is wrong tho, his source doesn't have this resistance

He doesn't, and HGR neg has nothing to do with being able to absorb 2-A multiverse

Gods have Resistance negation and Anos Resistance Abernew order. That only gives him two layer of resistance.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

When did corruption remotely require affecting the mind and soul? Same with possession as that has absolutely no relation to affecting concepts or soul.. Also range is an issue when his absorption has no showings of doing anything on that level, and again I haven't seen any source or scans to prove he has this layered high godly resistance negation.

Where it's stated corruption is Passive? Also corruption page only states it depends time and all to Fully corrupt an opponent.

All gods in MG has resistance negation. Abernew order has death manipulation and high godly regeneration negation. Abernew stated to even killed off other gods who has Resistance to her order.

Anos resisted her order. Anos has atleast 2 layers of resistance.

 

[Theglassman12]

Ok? I've seen his abilities, that's not stopping the passive abilities that renders him unable to use his eyes.

Read the speed section, he's literally omnipresent with the Void.

You didn't post any scans at all, you just said he absorbed graham which has nothing to do with the regen negation resistance.

He's literally one with the Void, which has corruption and several other abilities as a passive trait.

Resistance Negation doesn't tell me anything, especially now that you need to specify what exactly the resistance negation is for to begin with. Also resisting order isn't regen negation, that's just law and concept hax going off what's shown here.

Ok? And again what does that have to do with corruption or possession or any ability that incapacitates Anos?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Ok? I've seen his abilities, that's not stopping the passive abilities that renders him unable to use his eyes.

Read the speed section, he's literally omnipresent with the Void.

You didn't post any scans at all, you just said he absorbed graham which has nothing to do with the regen negation resistance.

He's literally one with the Void, which has corruption and several other abilities as a passive trait.

Resistance Negation doesn't tell me anything, especially now that you need to specify what exactly the resistance negation is for to begin with. Also resisting order isn't regen negation, that's just law and concept hax going off what's shown here.

Ok? And again what does that have to do with corruption or possession or any ability that incapacitates Anos?

Neither did you post anything to prove your point. Also it's just appeal to ignorance nothing else.

 

[Delta333]

Bruh Exdeath does have omnipresence on profile...Don't care about the result of this match but I need to say that arguments for Anos are terrible

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Bruh Exdeath does have omnipresence on profile...Don't care about the result of this match but I need to say that arguments for Anos are terrible

My bad i got confused with lifting strength and speed. Also i don't see how it's terrible when all arguments for anos hasn't been refuted in any better way.

1. Match is not happening in Void.
2. Speed is Equalised.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

How does Exdeath interact with NEP? I thought only characters who can interact with NEP are characters with actual feats ? Did i miss anything. Where does Exdeath has NEP. I tried to look it up in his profile but couldn't find it.

 

[kuramamyfav68]

How does Exdeath interact with NEP? I thought only characters who can interact with NEP are characters with actual feats ? Did i miss anything. Where does Exdeath has NEP. I tried to look it up in his profile but couldn't find it.

Graham has even deeper nep than regular type 2s... anyway, don't care to respond to downplayers. Anos negs 2 layers of high-godly, and to kill him you need to affect his source, which requires 99x layers of conceptual hax. Again, he can cast magic as his source, and can move it outside and inside his body to make himself resistant to hax.

 

[imZer0Null]

That's not what I'm arguing, I'm arguing that incapacitating Anos to not being able to make any decisions for himself will prevent him from using the eyes, especially when he becomes corrupted and becomes a servant of the void for Exdeath, or when Exdeath controls his entire body and takes over his conscious with possession, or just being petrified on the spot among other things that prevent him from being able to use the eyes.

Ok? I've seen his abilities, that's not stopping the passive abilities that renders him unable to use his eyes.

Anos' magic eyes can nullify the ability as long as Exdeath doesn't resist his law & concept manip, even if the (passive) ability is supposed to incapacitate him when it affects him. That's just how his magic eyes work.

This magic eye can make events that will certainly happen and/or already happened never happen, by destroying reason and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning. In other words, as one possible use of this magic eye, Anos can destroy a power after the power already affected him, by destroying the reason of the power and creating a logical contradiction, therefore unilaterally winning, and subsequently nullifying the power's effect as if he was never even affected to begin with;

Also, I don't know why people are saying that Anos has layered regen negation, because as far as I know nothing like that has been accepted.

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

i think Exdeath has Acausality Type 2 and 4 to be affected by that description that sounds like Causality manip that includes powernull

but at the same iirc Anos can causality manip even type 4 so

 

[kuramamyfav68]

The eye is also conceptual, and has those aforementioned 99 layers going for it too.

 

[Delta333]

1. Match is not happening in Void.
2. Speed is Equalised.

1. Exdeath is void itself

2. Speed being equalized doesn't remove omnipresence of one character, as omnipresence isn't speed feat in the first place