Anime Frieza's Supernova Feat Revision

[ByAsura]

My suggestion was already agreed to here, but it wasn't applied since the thread kind of died out.

Basically, the celestial body next to Planet Plant/Vegeta isn't Earth (the scene is at 14:42 of Dragon Ball GT episode 31), rather a moon (one that King Kai canonically established as existing in the Tuffle's time), which is supported by Baby's flashback in episode 27 showing that Planet Vegeta has the same moons.

If we use the canonical calculation and swap out the size, timeframe and mass with Kepekely's version, it's about 1.4961634e+38 J, or Dwarf Star level.

Does this suck? Yes. But, he also scales ridiculously above his higher subordinates, all of whom scale so far above King Vegeta's casual planet destroying handwave that Vegeta as a child surpassed him, and Kaioken x2 Namek Goku. He's easily Small Star level.

 

[Tarang123]

Leaning towards agreeing, but I want to hear some other opinions. If this was already accepted before, then it should have already been implemented

 

[Theendzero13]

Agree

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Agreed, that High 4-C calc was always wack

 

[ByAsura]

Leaning towards agreeing, but I want to hear some other opinions. If this was already accepted before, then it should have already been implemented

Part of the reason why I made a thread was to see if there's any alternative calculations or scaling that can be applied.

 

[Firestorm808]

Looking at Kep's calc, would it be acceptable to scale Planet Vegeta from its moons? IIRC the Saiyans refer to Earth as being a small planet.

 

[ByAsura]

I doubt you could scale a planet with two moons like that.

I think it's King Cold who says it's a small planet, while Nappa and Vegeta remark that the gravity is lower than their former homeworld.

If we use Stardestroyer.net to get a minimum size for a planet with comparable density to Earth and 10 times the gravity, it's about 125,000 km. That's almost slap in the middle of Jupiter and Saturn's size. Using relativistic kinetic energy, it's about 1/3rd baseline Solar System level.

Truthfully, no rocky planet of this size exists, and even the larger ones typically have densities comparable to Earth's. The closest we've come to finding such a thing is TOI-849 b, which has comparable density to Earth, 40x the volume, and over 3x the surface gravity. Yet, it's believed to be a remnant from an even bigger planet.

The thing about the old Frieza calculation is that it was always, in some way, a low-ball. The person who made that calculation has been chastised for saying it's 10 times more massive than Earth and the same diameter (rightfully so, to an extent, because that's very unrealistic), but it's entirely fair because kinetic energy is squared.

 

[Firestorm808]

Here are the ranges of AP depending on Planet Size based on Kep's calc.

	Earth	Gliese 436 c	Mini-Neptune Low	Mini-Neptune Mid	Mini-Neptune High	Neptune	Earth Density-like Planet	Unit
Radius	6.37E+06	9.56E+06	1.08E+07	1.78E+07	2.48E+07	2.46E+07	6.37E+07	m
Gravity Constant	6.67E-11	6.67E-11	6.67E-11	6.67E-11	6.67E-11	6.67E-11	6.67E-11	m3⋅kg−1⋅s−2
Surface Gravity	98.1	98.1	98.1	98.1	98.1	98.1	98.1	m/s^2
Mass	5.97E+25	1.34E+26	1.72E+26	4.68E+26	9.07E+26	8.91E+26	5.95E+27	kg
Blast Radius	9.84E+07	1.48E+08	1.67E+08	2.76E+08	3.84E+08	3.80E+08	9.83E+08	m
Time	7	7	7	7	7	7	7	s
Blast Velocity	1.41E+07	2.11E+07	2.39E+07	3.94E+07	5.48E+07	5.43E+07	1.40E+08	m/s
KE	5.89E+39	2.98E+40	4.92E+40	3.62E+41	1.36E+42	1.31E+42	5.87E+43	Joules
Tier	5-A	5-A	Low 4-C	Low 4-C	4-C	4-C	High 4-C

 

[ByAsura]

I suppose the mini-Neptune low/mid-ends aren't too bad. The planet is less dense than iron with those ends.

 

[Antvasima]

This seems to make sense to me.

 

[Antvasima]

@Theglassman12 @DarkDragonMedeus @SamanPatou @Elizhaa @AKM sama @SSJRyu1 @Dominodalek @Vietthai96

What do you think about this?

 

[Vietthai96]

To be honest, i'm not really good with these calc stuffs, but the feat and the foundation for the calc which is Moon of Planet Vegeta rather than Earth-like Planet seem really legit, so i think Mini-Neptune Mid is good too me, but let see if ByAsura have opinion on this

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. No problem.

 

[Vizer04]

Neutral for now

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems okay

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the evaluations.

 

[ByAsura]

To be honest, i'm not really good with these calc stuffs, but the feat and the foundation for the calc which is Moon of Planet Vegeta rather than Earth-like Planet seem really legit, so i think Mini-Neptune Mid is good too me, but let see if ByAsura have opinion on this

I like them too, but we definitely need evidence for Vegeta to be this large in the anime.

 

[AKM sama]

ByAsura seems to make sense. This should be fine.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Wouldn't Planet Vegeta have moons similar size to Earth's moon? Since Planet Vegeta's moons, as well as Earth's moon, can produce enough blutz waves to cause the Saiyans to turn into their Oozaru forms

If so, we can scale Planet Vegeta in the anime based on that

 

[ByAsura]

It's not actually stated how many Blutz Waves the different moons produce (at least in the original subs). It's only stated that it takes over 17 million to initiate the transformation.

For all we know, the Earth could be outputting 170 million and Planet Vegeta's moon only produces 17 million.

All we do know is that they're different enough for a full moon to occur once every 80 years (again, in the original sub).

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

It's not actually stated how many Blutz Waves the different moons produce (at least in the original subs). It's only stated that it takes over 17 million to initiate the transformation.

For all we know, the Earth could be outputting 170 million and Planet Vegeta's moon only produces 17 million.

Yeah but we can't assume that without anything to say as such. I can also say both produce 17 million and it would be just as valid

So we know that both planets have a moon that can make them transform, so they're likely also similar in size since both can accomplish this and we have no information that claims otherwise

All we do know is that they're different enough for a full moon to be pretty rare.

Full Moon is once per month on Earth. Not sure about Planet Vegeta

 

[ByAsura]

You're making the claim that we can directly compare moons from two vastly different planets, so the burden of proof is on you.

The Saiyans are shown repeatedly to transform on all sorts of planets. We don't even know it both Earth and Vegeta produce the exact same or minimum amount of Blutz Waves.

Once per 80 years. I guess you missed the edit.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Alright. I guess that makes sense

 

[Antvasima]

ByAsura seems to make sense. This should be fine.

Thank you. What ByAsura suggested seems to have been accepted then.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Which end did you decided on? Because ByAsura's comment wasn't that clear on what he chose

 

[ByAsura]

I said I liked some of them, but applicability is a completely different matter.

At least Small Star level should suffice for Frieza Saga Base Goku and scaleable characters. We can just list Frieza’s Supernova as a supporting feat with no calculation.

I’ll work out the scaling and changes to the Toei verse tomorrow.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

 

[Firestorm808]

All we do know is that they're different enough for a full moon to occur once every 80 years (again, in the original sub).

Do you recall the episode number for that?

 

[ByAsura]

Episode 20.

 

[Firestorm808]

Thanks. I'll check out the math with this later.

 

[Firestorm808]

Episode 20.

According to my Subbed Dragon Box copy, it's 8 years.

 

[ByAsura]

It is 8. My mistake.

 

[Firestorm808]

It is 8. My mistake.

Working on the math now. Will get back to you guys afterward.

 

[Firestorm808]

DBGT E31

Above are the diameter pixel values regarding Planet Vegeta and its moons.

Orbital Velocity Calculator

Use our orbital velocity calculator to estimate the parameters of orbital motion of the planets.

www.omnicalculator.com

Assuming Planet Vegeta is Earth Diameter but with 10x mass, a moon with the same Mass as Earth's moon would need an orbit axis of 1.86E+10 m to make an 8 year period orbit. Even if Planet Vegeta's moon was 1 kg, the orbit distance would be the same.

Using my previous chart, the orbit distances ranges in meters are below:

Earth 10x

Gliese 436 c

Mini-Neptune Low

Mini-Neptune Mid

Mini-Neptune High

Neptune

Earth Density-like Planet

1.86E+10

2.44E+10

2.65E+10

3.70E+10

4.61E+10

4.58E+10

8.63E+10

Taking the low-end of 1.86E+10 m for 325 px, Planet Vegeta's radius is at least 1.73E+10 m. To meet the 10g surface gravity, the mass needs to be 4.39E+32 kg.

Below is the adjusted Energy value.

		Planet Vegeta
Radius	m	8.64E+09
Gravity Constant	m3⋅kg−1⋅s−2	6.67E-11
Surface Gravity	m/s^2	98.1
Mass	kg	1.10E+32
Blast Radius	m	1.33E+11
Time	s	7
Blast Velocity	m/s	1.91E+10
KE	Joules	2.00E+52

 

[ByAsura]

Ok, put it in a blog to get accepted or declined.

 

[Firestorm808]

Ok, put it in a blog to get accepted or declined.

Dragon Ball Anime - Frieza Destroys Planet Vegeta

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the blog so you guys can comment.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So Planet Vegeta is like 100 times the mass of the sun then? I don't know how to feel about that

Also, the distance assumes that Planet Vegeta is Earth-Sized with 10G gravity to calculate the distance, but then uses the distance to re-calculate Planet Vegeta's size. Wouldn't that mean the distance to make an 8 year orbit will MASSIVELY change too?

 

[Antvasima]

@Mr._Bambu @DemonGodMitchAubin @Armorchompy

Would any of you be willing to evaluate the following blog, and then tell us here, please?

Dragon Ball Anime - Frieza Destroys Planet Vegeta

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

So Planet Vegeta is like 100 times the mass of the sun then? I don't know how to feel about that

Also, the distance assumes that Planet Vegeta is Earth-Sized with 10G gravity to calculate the distance, but then uses the distance to re-calculate Planet Vegeta's size. Wouldn't that mean the distance to make an 8 year orbit will MASSIVELY change too?

I just calculated it, and a Planet this big with a moon having 8 year orbit period would make the period orbit around 0.2 Lightyears, and then pixelscaling that to Planet Vegeta would make it have a radius of 1/10 of a lightyear

 

[Firestorm808]

I used the bare minimum orbit distance for the initial calc since that's the low-end to scale for planet size from the pixel distance.

I'll be adjusting the calculation later today since I forgot to apply the curvature correction, factor orbital position ranges in the reference image, as well as add an ang-sizing section that I'm still working on.