An upgrade for The Presence

[Elizio33]

Hello!

This thread will deal with the topic of god tiers of Crisis Cosmology, starting off with Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

The above name was used more exclusively in Grant Morrison's Final Crisis and Multiversity and in some of Grant's interviews, but was not mentioned elsewhere, but the name Overvoid, however, was used more frequently by different authors. Thus, i suggests we rename the page "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" to "The Overvoid" since the second name doesn't seem too Morrison-centric.

This is the first point.

Second, we should elaborate more on the God of this cosmology (Presence) and on The Source and The Light.

In the events of The Flash Vol 6 13, the Source and the Light were referred to interchangeably by Wally West. Justice League Incarnate Vol 1 4 tied the Overvoid with the Great Darkness from Swamp Thing Vol 2 49-50, combined with the origins of creation told in Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol 1 1, which clearly depicts the Overvoid as the "Light". In this respect, these entities are identical.

And now, where is the Presence in all this? It is he who created the Light in his act of creation after he spoke the words: “Let there be light!”, and the light burned through the void of endless darkness. This has been emphasized many times as many stories spoke of a Earth when it was "without form" and "void" and then God brought light so that everything would no longer be nothing. This is in agreement with what was said in JLI 4 when it was said that in the beginning there was only darkness until the burning light came. This means that Light/Source are a product of God. This should be explained in the DC Cosmology blog.

Now that the second point is made, let's talk about the third.

The Presence (God) should be 0. There is evidence of this upgrade as God transcends opposites and the war between Light and Darkness. He silently observes Creation and breathed everything into existence to a point where time is no time and space is no space as such, God is non-dual, timeless, boundless and unchanging, without beginning or end, one with the void. According to different belief systems, God has many forms and appearances, but all agree that there is one God Beyond Gods who is the true source of all creation.

To summarize: "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" should be renamed "The Overvoid" instead. Expand the explanation of the relationship that the Source and the Light have with each other and with the Presence. Upgrade the Presence to Tier 0 (Boundless).

Thank you!

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Hello!

This thread will deal with the topic of god tiers of Crisis Cosmology, starting off with Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

The above name was used more exclusively in Grant Morrison's Final Crisis and Multiversity and in some of Grant's interviews, but was not mentioned elsewhere, but the name Overvoid, however, was used more frequently by different authors. Thus, i suggests we rename the page "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" to "The Overvoid" since the second name doesn't seem too Morrison-centric.

This is the first point.

Second, we should elaborate more on the God of this cosmology (Presence) and on The Source and The Light.

In the events of The Flash Vol 6 13, the Source and the Light were referred to interchangeably by Wally West. Justice League Incarnate Vol 1 4 tied the Overvoid with the Great Darkness from Swamp Thing Vol 2 49-50, combined with the origins of creation told in Crisis on Infinite Earths Vol 1 1, which clearly depicts the Overvoid as the "Light". In this respect, these entities are identical.

And now, where is the Presence in all this? It is he who created the Light in his act of creation after he spoke the words: “Let there be light!”, and the light burned through the void of endless darkness. This has been emphasized many times as many stories spoke of a Earth when it was "without form" and "void" and then God brought light so that everything would no longer be nothing. This means that Light/Source are a product of God. This should be explained in the DC Cosmology blog.

Now that the second point is made, let's talk about the third.

The Presence (God) should be 0. There is evidence of this upgrade as God transcends opposites and the war between Light and Darkness. He silently observes Creation and breathed everything into existence to a point where time is no time and space is no space as such, God is non-dual, timeless, boundless and unchanging, without beginning or end, one with the void. According to different belief systems, God has many forms and appearances, but all agree that there is one God Beyond Gods who is the true source of all creation.

To summarize: "Monitor-Mind The Overvoid" should be renamed "The Overvoid" instead. Expand the explanation of the relationship that the Source and the Light have with each other and with the Presence. Upgrade the Presence to Tier 0 (Boundless).

Thank you!

Isn’t the presence already tier 0 though?

 

[Elizio33]

Isn’t the presence already tier 0 though?

This thread is for the Crisis Cosmology part of the Presence.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

Isn’t the presence already tier 0 though?

That is for his other cosmology keys

 

[Elizio33]

That is for his other cosmology keys

Yeah.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Your scans aren't really in order. Also, I don't really see where God is non-dual, beyond all opposites, and above the Light and Darkness. By any chance are you missing scans ?

 

[Elizio33]

Your scans aren't really in order. Also, I don't really see where God is non-dual, beyond all opposites, and above the Light and Darkness. By any chance are you missing scans ?

I break through the barrier of my own blind ignorance... Into a warm sunshine of understanding. To roam free... As free as the purest thought... As pure as the symmetry of nature. Beyond all obstacles. To a point where time is no time... And space is no space... Where one may silently observe... As God breathes in and breathed out. Exhaling his quintessence of perfection.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Yeah, tier 0 is clear and straightforward. Also, the renaming of the Overvoid is fine.

 

[Weaver261]

And now, where is the Presence in all this? It is he who created the Light in his act of creation after he spoke the words: “Let there be light!”, and the light burned through the void of endless darkness

Where is the Perpetua's place in all of this? After all she is the one who originally created DC multiverse before the restart by the light. Scott Snyder said the presence creating multiverse takes place after perpetua's dethroned. In perpetua's story, we know that she rent a piece from overvoid and created three brothers and also made three realms. That means overvoid already existed back then even before the restart. In JLI #4 Origin story, multiverse was instantly born due to the conflict between light and dark. How will you solve this?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Where is the Perpetua's place in all of this? After all she is the one who originally created DC multiverse before the restart by the light. Scott Snyder said the presence creating multiverse takes place after perpetua's dethroned. In perpetua's story, we know that she rent a piece from overvoid and created three brothers and also made three realms. That means overvoid already existed back then even before the restart. In JLI #4 Origin story, multiverse was instantly born due to the conflict between light and dark. How will you solve this?

The Creator is 0 and 0 exists independently from anything. Perpetua is just 1-A and the same with the Source/Light as an aspect of the Presence(the Voice) which is an aspect of the Creator God or the true form of the Presence.

 

[Weaver261]

The Creator is 0 and 0 exists independently from anything. Perpetua is just 1-A and the same with the Source/Light as an aspect of the Presence(the Voice) which is an aspect of the Creator God or the true form of the Presence.

I know that is the case but I am asking the chronological explanation for this since something is wrong here. Overvoid shouldn't exist in perpetua's story if overvoid was created after perpetua's creation was restarted. What's going on with this?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I know that is the case but I am asking the chronological explanation for this since something is wrong here. Overvoid shouldn't exist in perpetua's story if overvoid was created after perpetua's creation was restarted. What's going on with this?

That's because she doesn't predate the Light. She didn't randomly create from the Darkness since the Light is the oldest thing in the Darkness. Plus, Flash sorts of confirmed the Light and Source being the same thing and we know the Hands get their lifeforce from the Source. Also, the creation of Perpetua was literally considered the “light” Multiverse. So, I don't think there's any confusion here.

 

[Elizio33]

Where is the Perpetua's place in all of this? After all she is the one who originally created DC multiverse before the restart by the light. Scott Snyder said the presence creating multiverse takes place after perpetua's dethroned. In perpetua's story, we know that she rent a piece from overvoid and created three brothers and also made three realms. That means overvoid already existed back then even before the restart. In JLI #4 Origin story, multiverse was instantly born due to the conflict between light and dark. How will you solve this?

The Light of Creation was born in the Great Darkness, and it has been confirmed that The Light is The Source. This corresponds to John Byrne's Fourth World when it says that The Source was born in the void. The Light (or Source) grew and when everything was no longer nothing, the Great Darkness howled, causing a flaw in the once immaculate perfection of The Light as the first narrative was born.

As the great energies of creation were born of The Source, The Source brought forth super celestial beings called "Hands" to shape these energies into realms of existence. The Source has shaped many other cosmic entities with their own functions in the Greater Omniverse such as Cosmic Raptor, Chronicler and the Deep Change, and they are all part of a hierarchy that eventually reaches The Source.

The Presence is not part of this hierarchy because he simply transcends any notion of hierarchical systems, and created The Light in his act of creation. The Source (or Light) is also linked to The Presence since when The Spectre entered inside The Source, the nature of God was shown to him. The Source's is basically God's light and the Great Darkness is the absence of God's light.

 

[Weaver261]

the Great Darkness howled, causing a flaw in the once immaculate perfection of The Light as the first narrative was born.

As the great energies of creation were born of The Source

I am fine with the scaling here and I also agree The Presence in Crisis Cosmology deserves Tier 0. But I'm confused with this one. It's said here that when the flaw appeared on perfection light, in that instant multiverse was born
There's no timeframe between two events. It just happened instantly.

 

[Elizio33]

I am fine with the scaling here and I also agree The Presence in Crisis Cosmology deserves Tier 0. But I'm confused with this one. It's said here that when the flaw appeared on perfection light, in that instant multiverse was born
There's no timeframe between two events. It just happened instantly.

Think of it this way, the writer wanted to focus more on the Great Darkness by bringing back the origin story told in Crisis on Infinite Earths when all was darkness until the burning light came, but who shaped the Multiverse? There was indeed a time gap between the flaw and the creation of the Multiverse and it was Perpetua who shaped the Multiverse, but this wasn't addressed in this specific story.

 

[AndrewBennet]

Agreed with the upgrade