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An Issue with Fully Evolved Pokémon Speeds

The_real_cal_howard

The_real_cal_howard

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I f*cking told Dragon I'd make it. And I did. Fite me ovo.

So, last time I made this, it just died off without debunking, and I had a good amount of agreement. But transonic is way too low. It was just too low. Heck, normal Pokémon have SoL attacks like Starmie and Ampharos, and Flash is SoL. Alolan Golem is a rail gun, which fits much quicker than transonic speeds. Zebsrika is lightning speed with a statement that scientifically backs that up. All of the variations of Thunder either emulate CtG lightning, or actually are that. My Charizard calc, while likely not legit, is definitely higher than Mah 1 by far, even with the most lowballed timeframe. Hitmonchan is Mach 23. Seismic Toss is higher than that. Even at a minimum, there's Garchomp and Pisgeot to scale off of. Obviously Pokémon being sitting ducks for these moves is RPG game mechanics, as most other media, like the anime, Pokken, and cutscenes I Mystery Dungeon show the exact opposite, and even in the RPG, there's an evasion stat and it dad that Pokémon can evade attacks.
 
>there's an evasion stat and it dad that Pokémon can evade attacks.

>dad

What my dad has to do with this?
 
Except that "evading" an attack has nothing to do with speed.

From what I know, every Evasion boosting moves aren't increases in speed, but simply ways to make it harder for the opponent to hit. For example:

-Double Team is afterimage creation, meaning the opponent will likely hit the afterimages instead.

-Minimize simply shrinks the user, making them harder to hit.

-Acupressure does...things.

Either way, I don't think we can truly attribute moves with 100% accuracy as being speed feat.
 
Evasion in-game having more to do with percentage than speed is game mechanics. In more narrative-focused Pokémon media, Pokémon dodging are a speed feat.

I agree with Cal.
 
Also, another thing I forgot, but I've got Magnemite having all of its attacks being the speed of true lightning accepted a long while ago. And it's not like it's especially different from all other electric types.
 
This is another media though. We can't apply this to the games.

Especially since this means that in-game, no Pokémon can actually dodge such an attack. I know that it's normal to assume that in a real fight, a Pokémon would be able to dodge something like a tackle, but we can't assume it for things like Lightning or Light attacks.
 
The profiles, mainly the legendaries are composite since in the game the bids are at least High 7-A and some of the others are unknown.
 
I can agree with this, but just because they have SoL attacks doesn't mean they should scale. They're not always dodgable and it seems outlierish, considering the gap between lightning speed and light speed.

Dodging lightning should also scale to the higher tiers instead of the lower ones imo.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Except that "evading" an attack has nothing to do with speed.
From what I know, every Evasion boosting moves aren't increases in speed, but simply ways to make it harder for the opponent to hit. For example:

-Double Team is afterimage creation, meaning the opponent will likely hit the afterimages instead.

-Minimize simply shrinks the user, making them harder to hit.

-Acupressure does...things.

Either way, I don't think we can truly attribute moves with 100% accuracy as being speed feat.
Click to expand...
Thats a game mechanic that translates into a speed feat-- I'm going with cal on this one as well. To EVADE you must prove that such an exampled attack can be dodged, which pokemon do all the time.

The charts for how many pokemon have ridiculous evasion chances in the charts, i'm not up for that discussion.
 
I...am pretty sure evasion is game mechanic no matter what, since it would contradict some Dex statements about really slow pokemon

Zebstrika is understandable though
 
To be fair the dex talks about AVERAGE pokemon. Like wild ones. So for dex entries talking about slow pokemon, that can easily just be chalked up to the average members of the species. Well trained ones used by trainers could always just become faster and be the higher of the bunch.
 
I'm with Cal here. Just because some examples of "Evade" mean "making it harder to hit" rather than "dodging", it doesn't means it is like that all the time.
 
I mean, I agree that they should be higher because evolutions are supposed to be far superior to their previous forms, but who are you intending to scale to? For final evolutions, it seems most got scaled to Tyranitar who's mountain, but are you trying to make all final evos FTL or...? If you ask for my personal opinion, lightning for Zebstrika seems to be the best from what you listed.

Also, evasion stats like many have stated are just game mechanics as a whole. Regardless, progress with this thread is one I look forward to.
 
Zebstrika is stated to move at lightning-quick speed, not at the speed of lightning. Its hyperbole

I remember all of this being debunked before aswell
 
White This ill-tempered Pokémon is dangerous because when it's angry, it shoots lightning from its mane in all directions.
Black 2
White 2
When this ill-tempered Pokémon runs wild, it shoots lightning from its mane in all directions.
X
Omega Ruby
When this ill-tempered Pokémon runs wild, it shoots lightning from its mane in all directions.
Y
Alpha Sapphire
They have lightning-like movements. When Zebstrika run at full speed, the sound of thunder reverberates.
 
Every Pokemon has their own speed limit, some more than others.

Linoone: Pokemon X Entry - When running in a straight line, it can easily top 60 miles an hour. It has a tough time with curved roads.

Pidgeot: Pokemon Y Entry - It spreads its gorgeous wings widely to intimidate enemies. It races through the skies at Mach-2 speed.
 
Again, the dex is referencing the limits of the WILD pokemon. They can easily break that by becoming the higher of the bunch in ways like being well trained. Just because they're known for that doesn't mean they can't have anything else added to them.

Also it's clearly not a limit. In Linoones for example it says it can EASILY top 60 miles in 1 hr. Implying even wild members of the species can do more than that.
 
I'm not saying that they can't be faster. I'm just saying that some species are naturally faster than others. There's a big gap between 60 mph and mach 2.
 
Dark649 said:
{| class="vitals-table"
| |- !White |This ill-tempered Pokémon is dangerous because when it's angry, it shoots lightning from its mane in all directions. |- !Black 2 White 2 |When this ill-tempered Pokémon runs wild, it shoots lightning from its mane in all directions. |- !X Omega Ruby |When this ill-tempered Pokémon runs wild, it shoots lightning from its mane in all directions. |- !Y Alpha Sapphire |They have lightning-like movements. When Zebstrika run at full speed, the sound of thunder reverberates. |}
Click to expand...
This proves it is indeed Lightning, or MHS+
 
Honestly, Pokémon lighting isn't magical or anything. Usually, it's produced through semi-scientific means. So there is very little reasons why it wouldn't be real.
 
For the record, I calced a Mystery Dungeon Mach 5300 calc supporting this in which Dusknoir blocks Luxray's electric attacks. Before anyone says that true lighting thing, one, this thread exists for a reason, two, even the much weaker Thundershock has been seen as coming from above in that game, and Luxray was using its strongest move, and three, in a different version of the game, this plays out the exact same with Manectric and Electrike instead of Luxray and Luxio, in which the former has been stated to create thunderclouds and therefore should be using ctg lightning.
 
If it is common place that Pokemon can dodge semi-close range electric attacks, flash, or flash cannon, MHS+ seems okay.
 
We use Mystery Dungeon for the normal Pokemon game/anime profiles now? I thought it was not allowed?
 
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