All Might downgrade

[Ricsi-viragosi]

As I brought up (and aparently damage did as well), All Might's reasoning for his second key might be using a fallacious logic.

All Might is scaled to High 7-A due to a X60 multiplier because he could have defeated nomu in 5 punches in prime, instead of the 300 he needed now.


Problem is, he only needed to overcome shockwave absorption to defeat nomu. Logic goes pretty much like this:

Say, Nomu has a shockwave absorption of 100.

All might while weakened attacks with 80. No damage is done.

All Might in his prime attacks with 200, 100 damage is done.


So, pretty much, he wouldn't need to be a sixty times stronger to overcome the shockwave absorption. It might be a possiblity, but I doubt that is enough to accept a X60 multiplier.

 

[Schnee_One]

WRONG BOARD XD

But this makes sense

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Goddangit....

 

[Qawsedf234]

I'll just copy a previous thing I said

Shock absorption has a lot to do with it, since that's the direct thing he's measuring against. A super basic example

• AM punches with 100 energy

• Nomu absorbs 99. So the damage is 1

• Prime AM punches with 159 energy

• Nomu absorbs 99. So the damage is 60

I would support a downgrade to just "Higher in his prime"

 

[Andytrenom]

I still think the point of the "300 punches vs 5 punches" statement was to show the exact degree of superiority of Prime All Might over his weakened form. Ie prime being 60 times stronger.

But I'll see if you have a point for not.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I don't think that would be enough to accept such a big multiplier, especially when there is a more logical way to explain it that doesn't lead to such a big upgrade.

It might have been meant for that, but authors mean to do a lot of stuff, and other times don't mean to do so. We ignore both unless it is founded by feats or statements.

 

[TheRustyOne]

None of All Might's punches except for the last one did anything to Nomu. And by the end of it, all he did was break Nomu's teeth and jaw.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

How does that counter my point?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

At most, you could say that he punched so fast that Nomu's absorption didn't have time to absorb one shock before the other came, but that would also make him weaker for the same reason he mentions, he would be faster, and thus could overwhelm Nomu's absorption in less hits.

 

[TheRustyOne]

After at least 299 hits, Nomu showed no signs of being injured. It was only after the last and 300 hit that he finally took damage, doesn't that implies All Might's punches were being stacked?

Wouldn't that means 5 Prime All Might punches is equivalent of 300 Weakened All Might Punches?

Maybe I don't understand what you're saying, can you explain it differently?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He himself mentions that he was getting slower, which means that speed was a factor that would have made it easier to deal with nomu regardless of AP.

^That means that his attacks, at least at the beginning, were too slow and gave the shockwave absorption time to deal with the shock at the very least partially, which makes a direct multiplication wrong by itself.

 

[Qawsedf234]

> Nomu showed no signs of being injured.

Because he could regenerate. He couldn't keep up with the damage and the last hit was enough to KO. All Might's AP - Shock Absorption = Energy Nomu took, which was then reduced again by his healing factor.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

^That too.

 

[TheRustyOne]

All Might didn't KO Nomu, he just punches him so far that he couldn't follow any orders and became docile.

However I did forget about the Regenerationn. (My bad)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Pretty sure Nomu was shown to be K.O.-ed, which is why they could restrain it at all.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah you're right. Cops found him a little bit after and it seemed to be fine for the most part. Although most KO's only last for a few seconds IRL, which may explain him bouncing back quickly. That and the healing factor.

 

[TheRustyOne]

No, Nomu is unable to think for himself. Since he couldn't see All Might anymore he became docile, his last order was to kill All Might and he was now gone.

Nomu was perfectly conscious, he just didn't have any orders to follow.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Regardless, there are two points for while a direct multiplier couldn't be used.

 

[AstralKing7]

Nomu was hearing bells in his head lmao that wasn't just a KO.

I agree with this thread btw

 

[TheRustyOne]

So Prime All Might will be downgraded to at least 7-B, like far higher?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Probably.

 

[Andytrenom]

To be honest, the downgrade argument isn't any more logical than the multiplier given what was implied in the story. Especially if the latter being a "big upgrade" is a reason for treating it as such.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Dude, what..?

All Might says that he was slow, not weak. He defeated Nomu by punching faster than he could take it, that would mean that his prime could have pounched faster, and needed less punches with only that.

 

[Qawsedf234]

My point is that even a relatively minor AP upgrade would be enough to do massive damage through shock absorption. So I think the 60x amp is just unsupported and shouldn't be used.

 

[DMUA]

Dear lord stop abusing All Mig-

realizes this means Cole vs All Might can be done without Data closing the thread with barely any elaboratio

... Keep going

Legit, this seems fine.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

He himself mentions that he was getting slower, which means that speed was a factor that would have made it easier to deal with nomu regardless of AP.
^That means that his attacks, at least at the beginning, were too slow and gave the shockwave absorption time to deal with the shock at the very least partially, which makes a direct multiplication wrong by itself.

^This.

 

[TheRustyOne]

All Might says that he was slow, not weak. He defeated Nomu by punching faster than he could take it, that would mean that his prime could have pounched faster, and needed less punches with only that.

Don't trust my translation, I've seen some say weaker not slower. And in the anime All Might legit says he's weaker, I don't know what the official translation says.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Even if he said that, he was still able to damage Nomu, which means that a much smaller AP increase than 60 would have been enough to do that on it's own.

 

[Qawsedf234]

@TheRustyOne the image you linked is the offical translation

 

[TheRustyOne]

How would we even know that Nomu's Shock Absorption would work the way your describing? It's possible that the damage was being stocked up and five punches does = 300.

Maybe Nomu was absorbing the damage fully and it wasn't until the last 300 hit that All Might finally overcame his Shock Absorption.

It seems like both scenarios are possible, but there's no proof towards either.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That is how shock absorption works, plain.

The fact that speed matters already makes it simply stacking impossible, because if all his attacks stacked speed wouldn't work.

Plus, assuming both are equally possible, which one do you think would be picked with lack of proof? The one assuming he was stronger by an unknown amount or the one assuming he was X60 stronger?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Both do appear to be equally possible. We have no idea how the Quirk called Shock Absorption even works, I feel like calling it either is just speculation.

I don't know? (I'm neutral regarding all of this so I honestly don't care)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Exept the part where it's mentioned that speed matters? Which in your scenario is false?


We don't assume a X60 multiplier to be right even if stated unless it is actually showcased to be so, assuming it without direct proof is a no go.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I don't care, I'm unfollowing this. (I'll agree with whatever the majority decides)

I was thinking that Large Mountain level All Might was an outlier anyway. A 60X multiplier is a rather big jump from just a single statement after all.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with a Ricsi on this.

 

[Therefir]

I agree with Ricsi too. I think we can use this graph with the Quirk levels of All Might to determine the difference between his weakened and prime self.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That looks around five times stronger? Would make sense.

 

[Andytrenom]

Was it ever implied that Nomu's shock absorption functions the way you described it in the OP? Iirc it was depicted as the energy of Might's punches building up inside Nomu and eventually going beyond its limit.

Tho i'll admit. Since Noumu also needed Regenerationn in order to fight All Might, it is entirely possible that my scenario is false.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yes, the speed part. If All Might tought speed would have helped, that is the only logical way it can work.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Looks like when be was at his Prime he was measured at around 15,000. Then the time right before he gave the OfA he was around 8,000 and after he gave up the quirk he dropped to around 3,850.