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Prime All Might Multiplier - Possible Discussion Thread Rule Addition After?

Status
Not open for further replies.
ShigarakiShimura said:
Bruh, how come no other mod has voted all this time while i was taking a nap. Can just Damage take one for the team and vote he agrees since we all know that it's going to get accepted.
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the sheer comedic potential in me rejecting this has multiplied

anyways can I be linked to a summary, as I don't want to read 7 damn pages
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
It’s currently, as shown at the bottom of OP, 2 mods vs 2 mods (and Therefir as a Content Mod), but the arguments against the OP have been quite soundly disproven.

Essentially, a character makes a statement that implies a 60x multiplier based on the number of hits it took to defeat another. This resulted in the “Total Energy argument” wherein the 60x is possible, and takes into account the characters Intelligence and actual ability to calculate his own power, in an incredibly simple manner consistent with his thinking.

The alternate explanation and attempt at a debunk was the Per-Punch argument, which is rebutted to in the above replys.

Beyond that, the only arguments agaisnt the 60x multiplier was inconsistency, which could not be proven and instead is heavily supported by the incredibkg massive gap between the proposed 60x character and other characters. The gap being so large that other characters cannot even scratch his skin when combining attacks.

As such there is no running argument against the multiplier and everything given, even by the opposition, does nothing but support it.
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Here is a short summary. Hope it helps.

Here's a longer one:
Kingofwolves999 said:
Arguments:

Per-Punch Absorption

The claim that Nomu’s absorption works off a “set defense stat” has been addressed as follows.

The logic if a set defense stat falls apart when actual number are put to it in any way. Using Qaws example, 99 vs 100 and 159 gives a 1.6x difference, but a 699 vs 700 and 759 gives a 1.085x difference.

This makes the actual grounds of the argument shaky, but what really creates mass assumptions and out of the box reasoning is that All Might would had to have done this math in the first place. Despite Kirishima’s statement about the regeneration and how All Might defeated it, it’s simply a wild assumption to believe that All Might could pinpoint how much damage he was doing vs how much was absorbed, so accurately that he could tell how many hits his Prime would take, in a manner that requires him to do that for EVERY PUNCH.

This explanation for the occurrence simply requires far too many assumptions to be comfortably usable. This argument from TheRustyOne sums it up quite well.

All Might sends Nomu flying with over 300 punches. He then says that in his heyday, he'd be able to perform the same feat with only 5 punches.

The argument here is simple, what does All Might statement actually mean? What is the simplest explanation? Occam's Razor and all that.

Nomu's Shock Absorption here is honestly irrelevant to me, since I find the idea that All Might is calculating Nomu's Quirk as he's punching him to be absurd. All Might is just going by what he remembers his strength was and where his strength is now as he's punching Nomu.

All Might knows how strong he was back in his prime, he knows how strong he is currently, and he knows how many punches it took to blow away Nomu. His statement isn't about Nomu's Shock Absorption working in a highly specific way. It's him finally realizing just how much weaker he's gotten from his heyday.

All Might was unaware of this until now because he's never fought anyone who was able to push him to his 100% ever since he fought AFO. He knew he was getting weaker, but he just didn't realize how much weaker he had gotten.

We don't know what Horikoshi was planning with this statement, we have to interpret the meaning of it to the best of our abilities. Death of the Author and all that. But I do find the idea that All Might can somehow calculate such a thing to be absurd.

Statements

The statements given by every character so far do not create any sort of contradiction to the 60x multiplier.

Many statements for All Might’s power or characters “as strong as All Might” or “not as strong as All Might” revolve around varying perceptions of the character, with the most important perceptions of that power only able to come from All Might himself and Shigaraki in the final war, as he is the most explicit about the state of All Might he refers to.

Other than All Might and Shigaraki (and I suppose Hawks data book statement), most other statements are incredibly vague about what version of All Might they are referring to, bouncing back and forth with no clear indication if the person talking is referring to his Prime or not, or even if they’re a credible source given All Might has been trying to keep his power under wraps.

Feats

No feats disprove a 60x multiplier, which is at times more important than any statement. The gap presented between All Might and everyone else, through a feats only perspective, can come from Complete Shigaraki, who tanks, mocks and one shots everyone that comes before him. He is the only character shown to be so otherworldly powerful compared to the other characters that they can’t even scratch his skin or damage him in any meaningful way, to the point that even a character like Mirko who can tear chunks out of the supposedly deadly High Ends is nothing to him.

Conclusion

There is so far no alternative, simpler answer to the All Might vs Nomu statement that results in something contradictory to the 60x multiplier being valid.

There are no statements that can be used to claim Prime All Might isn’t 60x stronger than everyone else, and when searching for statements SPECIFIC to Prime All Might, they all come back to a character that can tank, one shot and slap around every other character in the verse.

The feats for characters on Prime AM’s level only exacerbate the clear jump in power he has over them. His level of power is such that characters cannot even scratch his skin with their attacks, that even when they combine their attacks into a massive cannon, they are mocked that they thought it would even work. No character was meant to even fight a Prime All Might level character, as that job was meant to be left to, you guessed it, a different Prime All Might level character.

So the only logic I can garner from all this is that the 60x is valid until a simpler, not assumption heavy alternative is presented, and that it is not contradicted in anyway by the manga( through either statements or feats.
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Okay, I've read through the OP. Would like to say thank you for providing the information since I don't know shit about the verse- never presume something is widespread and universal in terms of being known.

This... is not a particularly clear-cut issue. The interpretations provided against the OP's suggestion would also seem to match the overall issue here. There's also the general fact that while All-Might would indeed be a knowledgeable source, we have no idea how accurate his exact specifications would be- a skilled boxer might be inclined to make a similar claim about a similar fight, and they'd be the best person to know whether that's factual, but then again it could easily be a vast generalization.

This exact idea is the main argument against Qawsedf's idea, too, outlined generally by Kingofwolves- but its a two way street, and it's generally safer to defer to the more conservative position.

Sorry folks. I'm voting against the thread.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Okay, I've read through the OP. Would like to say thank you for providing the information since I don't know shit about the verse- never presume something is widespread and universal in terms of being known.

This... is not a particularly clear-cut issue. The interpretations provided against the OP's suggestion would also seem to match the overall issue here. There's also the general fact that while All-Might would indeed be a knowledgeable source, we have no idea how accurate his exact specifications would be- a skilled boxer might be inclined to make a similar claim about a similar fight, and they'd be the best person to know whether that's factual, but then again it could easily be a vast generalization.

This exact idea is the main argument against Qawsedf's idea, too, outlined generally by Kingofwolves- but its a two way street, and it's generally safer to defer to the more conservative position.

Sorry folks. I'm voting against the thread.
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I don't really get this line of argument. What exactly is your issue? Is it just that you don't think allmight is good enough of a source?
 
ShigarakiShimura said:
I don't really get this line of argument. What exactly is your issue? Is it just that you don't think allmight is good enough of a source?
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Here's the side you're currently agreeing with.

This makes the actual grounds of the argument shaky, but what really creates mass assumptions and out of the box reasoning is that All Might would had to have done this math in the first place. Despite Kirishima’s statement about the regeneration and how All Might defeated it, it’s simply a wild assumption to believe that All Might could pinpoint how much damage he was doing vs how much was absorbed, so accurately that he could tell how many hits his Prime would take, in a manner that requires him to do that for EVERY PUNCH.
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Quoting Kingofwolves, of course.

This same logic plays against the OP's proposal though. To get to a 60x multiplier, you have to assume All Might is doing the exact physics and perfectly, cleanly coming to the conclusion that he is 60x weaker now compared to his Prime. The feat is too unclear on this front, and so I don't agree with using it to justify a 60x multiplier.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Okay, I've read through the OP. Would like to say thank you for providing the information since I don't know shit about the verse- never presume something is widespread and universal in terms of being known.

This... is not a particularly clear-cut issue. The interpretations provided against the OP's suggestion would also seem to match the overall issue here. There's also the general fact that while All-Might would indeed be a knowledgeable source, we have no idea how accurate his exact specifications would be- a skilled boxer might be inclined to make a similar claim about a similar fight, and they'd be the best person to know whether that's factual, but then again it could easily be a vast generalization.

This exact idea is the main argument against Qawsedf's idea, too, outlined generally by Kingofwolves- but its a two way street, and it's generally safer to defer to the more conservative position.

Sorry folks. I'm voting against the thread.
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I am against that opinion because for All Might to speak a number that's a multiply of 10 means he was already giving a rough estimate. Another criticism to this opinion is that in the end the statement wasn't thrown by a real human and it was rather the author's way to expose the difference between the states of Prime and current Allmight.

Mr._Bambu said:
This same logic plays against the OP's proposal though. To get to a 60x multiplier, you have to assume All Might is doing the exact physics and perfectly, cleanly coming to the conclusion that he is 60x weaker now compared to his Prime. The feat is too unclear on this front, and so I don't agree with using it to justify a 60x multiplier.
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I mean is it really? The guy has been using his power for years. He knows both his current power and his past power and is the single most valid person to talk about it except the author stating it himself. To throw away his words is throwing away every statement as you can't really get more simple than that while also getting it from a more valid source of info. Those are things All might would know. What he would not know is how much damage each punch does to the opponent which means to get the 300 and 5 statements the Nomu would need to have a single limit of absorption being filled and it's also the most logical choice and more in line with how the ability was portrayed.
 
0
Mr._Bambu said:
Here's the side you're currently agreeing with.


Quoting Kingofwolves, of course.

This same logic plays against the OP's proposal though. To get to a 60x multiplier, you have to assume All Might is doing the exact physics and perfectly, cleanly coming to the conclusion that he is 60x weaker now compared to his Prime. The feat is too unclear on this front, and so I don't agree with using it to justify a 60x multiplier.
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No such thing is necessary. All he needs to do is count his punches. Whilst for the other side he'll have to calculate the amount of energy that escaped each absorption. Completely different levels.
 
I feel like disagreeing based on that is kind of flimsy, but I do understand where you're coming from. I could understand a possibly rating rather than a full on rating, because All Might most definitely knows his prime strength, even though it's wild that he knows how much he could've dropped in strength, fiction does that type of shit constantly, so I don't really think it makes sense to just disagree based on that alone. Which is why possibly is more suited for that line of thinking imo
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
To any joining, these are the arguments and presentations for the feats and statements. Nothing contradicts the 60x multiplier, and no given explanation is more accurate, simple or consistent with character intelligence in a way that is better than our currently agreed upon method (Total Energy Absorption).

As such I’m open to begin counting votes from mods based on the evidence and arguments provided, especially since those in opposition to the multiplier and its logic have no running stance.
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@DarkDragonMedeus up here KoW has gathered up summaries to look at
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I was pinged to comment here, may I have a TLDR summary?
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:cry: :cry: :cry: Anyway

Arguments:

Per-Punch Absorption

The claim that Nomu’s absorption works off a “set defense stat” has been addressed as follows.

The logic if a set defense stat falls apart when actual number are put to it in any way. Using Qaws example, 99 vs 100 and 159 gives a 1.6x difference, but a 699 vs 700 and 759 gives a 1.085x difference.

This makes the actual grounds of the argument shaky, but what really creates mass assumptions and out of the box reasoning is that All Might would had to have done this math in the first place. Despite Kirishima’s statement about the regeneration and how All Might defeated it, it’s simply a wild assumption to believe that All Might could pinpoint how much damage he was doing vs how much was absorbed, so accurately that he could tell how many hits his Prime would take, in a manner that requires him to do that for EVERY PUNCH.

This explanation for the occurrence simply requires far too many assumptions to be comfortably usable. This argument from TheRustyOne sums it up quite well.

SPOILER: RUSTY VS PER-PUNCH ARGUMENT

Statements

The statements given by every character so far do not create any sort of contradiction to the 60x multiplier.

Many statements for All Might’s power or characters “as strong as All Might” or “not as strong as All Might” revolve around varying perceptions of the character, with the most important perceptions of that power only able to come from All Might himself and Shigaraki in the final war, as he is the most explicit about the state of All Might he refers to.

Other than All Might and Shigaraki (and I suppose Hawks data book statement), most other statements are incredibly vague about what version of All Might they are referring to, bouncing back and forth with no clear indication if the person talking is referring to his Prime or not, or even if they’re a credible source given All Might has been trying to keep his power under wraps.

Feats

No feats disprove a 60x multiplier, which is at times more important than any statement. The gap presented between All Might and everyone else, through a feats only perspective, can come from Complete Shigaraki, who tanks, mocks and one shots everyone that comes before him. He is the only character shown to be so otherworldly powerful compared to the other characters that they can’t even scratch his skin or damage him in any meaningful way, to the point that even a character like Mirko who can tear chunks out of the supposedly deadly High Ends is nothing to him.

Conclusion

There is so far no alternative, simpler answer to the All Might vs Nomu statement that results in something contradictory to the 60x multiplier being valid.

There are no statements that can be used to claim Prime All Might isn’t 60x stronger than everyone else, and when searching for statements SPECIFIC to Prime All Might, they all come back to a character that can tank, one shot and slap around every other character in the verse.

The feats for characters on Prime AM’s level only exacerbate the clear jump in power he has over them. His level of power is such that characters cannot even scratch his skin with their attacks, that even when they combine their attacks into a massive cannon, they are mocked that they thought it would even work. No character was meant to even fight a Prime All Might level character, as that job was meant to be left to, you guessed it, a different Prime All Might level character.

So the only logic I can garner from all this is that the 60x is valid until a simpler, not assumption heavy alternative is presented, and that it is not contradicted in anyway by the manga( through either statements or feats.

Shorter version:

It’s currently, as shown at the bottom of OP, 2 mods vs 2 mods (and Therefir as a Content Mod), but the arguments against the OP have been quite soundly disproven.

Essentially, a character makes a statement that implies a 60x multiplier based on the number of hits it took to defeat another. This resulted in the “Total Energy argument” wherein the 60x is possible, and takes into account the characters Intelligence and actual ability to calculate his own power, in an incredibly simple manner consistent with his thinking.

The alternate explanation and attempt at a debunk was the Per-Punch argument, which is rebutted to in the above replys.

Beyond that, the only arguments agaisnt the 60x multiplier was inconsistency, which could not be proven and instead is heavily supported by the incredibkg massive gap between the proposed 60x character and other characters. The gap being so large that other characters cannot even scratch his skin when combining attacks.

As such there is no running argument against the multiplier and everything given, even by the opposition, does nothing but support it.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Okay, I've read through the OP. Would like to say thank you for providing the information since I don't know shit about the verse- never presume something is widespread and universal in terms of being known.

This... is not a particularly clear-cut issue. The interpretations provided against the OP's suggestion would also seem to match the overall issue here. There's also the general fact that while All-Might would indeed be a knowledgeable source, we have no idea how accurate his exact specifications would be- a skilled boxer might be inclined to make a similar claim about a similar fight, and they'd be the best person to know whether that's factual, but then again it could easily be a vast generalization.

This exact idea is the main argument against Qawsedf's idea, too, outlined generally by Kingofwolves- but its a two way street, and it's generally safer to defer to the more conservative position.

Sorry folks. I'm voting against the thread.
Click to expand...
The problem with comparing him to a boxer is that those things aren't remotely the same... OFA as a quirk is inherently more complex than "just makes you vaguely stronger" and I am sure the series as well as the thread demonstrated that at least somewhat. There is no reason at all to believe that he would be inaccurate to his specifications especially considering All Might himself has shown to be the most knowledgeable character in the series regarding OFA except maybe AFO and the first. With that same line of reasoning, anyone who does anything that requires a level of skill or knowledge could make that claim, say a basketball player or like you said in your example a boxer. But the clear problem is the fact that it just flat out isn't a proper equivalency to All Might.

Also with what you quoted, he (Rusty) argues that the idea that All Might calculated each and every punch (which would support the per punch argument) is absurd. Which it is. Also KingofWolves was responding to the opposing argument. Here is what Rusty says in response to this argument.
"Nomu's Shock Absorption here is honestly irrelevant to me, since I find the idea that All Might is calculating Nomu's Quirk as he's punching him to be absurd. All Might is just going by what he remembers his strength was and where his strength is now as he's punching Nomu.

All Might knows how strong he was back in his prime, he knows how strong he is currently, and he knows how many punches it took to blow away Nomu. His statement isn't about Nomu's Shock Absorption working in a highly specific way. It's him finally realizing just how much weaker he's gotten from his heyday."
 
Well, if 60x multiplier comes from a character punching 5 times having the output of doing the same result with 300 punches, that's actually not how AP multipliers work.

AP doesn't stack linearly via consecutive punches and punching someone or something an X number of times actually does no where near as much damage as a single punch with X times more energy put into it. And I do remember DontTalkDT saying the exact same thing. I would be a different story if the multiplier specifically mentions energy/power output being 60x stronger or higher.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Well, if 60x multiplier comes from a character punching 5 times having the output of doing the same result with 300 punches, that's actually not how AP multipliers work.

AP doesn't stack linearly via consecutive punches and punching someone or something an X number of times actually does no where near as much damage as a single punch with X times more energy put into it. And I do remember DontTalkDT saying the exact same thing. I would be a different story if the multiplier specifically mentions energy/power output being 60x stronger or higher.
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Well it's in context of shock absorption. So he would be outputting as much energy in 5 punches as he did in 300.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Well, if 60x multiplier comes from a character punching 5 times having the output of doing the same result with 300 punches, that's actually not how AP multipliers work.

AP doesn't stack linearly via consecutive punches and punching someone or something an X number of times actually does no where near as much damage as a single punch with X times more energy put into it. And I do remember DontTalkDT saying the exact same thing. I would be a different story if the multiplier specifically mentions energy/power output being 60x stronger or higher.
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I am confused on what you're saying forgive me if I misunderstand. Like stated before, this is in context of shock absorption. I don't know how to use this site anymore to quote it (fandom changed a lot lol) but Timmy pretty much explained it. Nvm the agreement just loaded in lol.
 
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DarkDragonMedeus said:
I suppose it might be fine then.
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So the Nomu here has the power to absorb shock. All might punches the Nomu and finds that out. So being the musclehead he is he thinks the simplest thing he can do is overload the quirk via punching it too much too hard. After he does that he says that he needed 300 punches but in his Prime the same result would have been done after just 5 punches. Hence a direct connection of total power between the punches is given with the Prime Allmight's punches being 60 times more powerful.
 
Serlock_Holmes said:
So the Nomu here has the power to absorb shock. All might punches the Nomu and finds that out. So being the musclehead he is he thinks the simplest thing he can do is overload the quirk via punching it too much too hard. After he does that he says that he needed 300 punches but in his Prime the same result would have been done after just 5 punches. Hence a direct connection of total power between the punches is given with the Prime Allmight's punches being 60 times more powerful.
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No need to explain it again lol
 
Like there would be no point in saying that when both arguments are presented clearly. And literally none of this would be considered "hard evidence" then, on either side. If "hard evidence" (At this point hard evidence would mean an author statement written and signed by Hori 9 years after said scene) is necessary to even consider the possibility proposed by OP, then there is legit no way that a majority of CRTs or debates could happen. That is why we operate under the logic we do because otherwise we would literally just have to hope and wait for the manga to explain it years later like you proposed earlier. Not intending to come off as hostile or anything.
 
Grand_Astartes said:
An interpretation that has been argued since the first part of the thread, and one which the opposing side still hasn't (in my and several others opinions) properly rebutted.
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Fair enough, but I think that Kirishima's statement provides good enough counter-evidence for that interpretation. If you feel otherwise that's fine, but I'm not going to keep repeating it until you feel it's been rebutted.
 
All Might is doing math either way in order to know how strong he is compared to his prime, that’s undeniable. He counted his punches and compared them to his prime self by how many it took, which is exceedingly simple, but the leap in math being argued in the other interpretation is ridiculous.

The Per-Punch argument supposes, via Kirishima’s statement, that All Might is noticing damage on the Nomu that he is managing to get past its Shock Absorption. Immediately I take issue with this as to “get past” shock absorption implies “negation of this level.” It presupposes that Nomu isn’t absorbing energy and stocking it, but is flat out negating the energy unless you put more than it can negate, which is explicitly disproved in manga. The statement “there’s a limit to how much it can take” refers to the total absorption amount, not the limit that it negates.

Then, even more unlikely, is that All Might is noticing damage at all. The Nomu has no visible wounds whatsoever on its body by the time of the final hit, so how could he possibly judge that it is being hurt? Nomu shows no pain or injuries until it is launched in the final hit, wherein he knocks it unconscious, so how could anyone tell its regeneration was over taxed until that point? The damage dealt to it was so miniscule that it takes over 300 hits to knock it out, but through all those hits, not a single actual mark of injury appears? That simply doesn’t track if that’s what they meant by its regeneration being overwhelmed by the rush of hits, and especially doesn’t track with All Might even being able to notice that amount of damage at all.

Lastly, the math going on for AM is ridiculous, and makes his boast effectively meaningless. The belief that he is not only noticing damage that takes over 300 repetitions before defeating his foe, something that would be unreasonably minute in the first place, but he is also noticing the exact energy transfer for his punches, such that he can guess the shock absorption rate to be “1.x” his current, Plus Ultra hits, such that his punches aren’t just 60x stronger. They’re just slightly stronger and do enough damage to knock Nomu out: which is the EXACT scenario that DarkDragonMedeus mentions above.

The assumptions and necessary actions on AM’s part are simply unlikely and far out of left field to be considered nearly as valid as the total every option. He simply punched the Nomu as hard as he can, it took over 300 punches before he could launch it with a knockout (as its base durability is inferior to his Plus Ultra punches), and realized how much weaker he was from his Prime definitively.

This is another, full argument used against the other option:

TimmyTurnero said:
KoWs has been doing such a good job carrying this thread it’s crazy. But for some odd reason opposition keeps asserting this belief that shock absorption has a limit to how much it absorbs at a time, which is really, really baseless.

Shock vs Negation
I truly don’t understand why this part is so difficult to understand, it’s made clear by All Might and Tomura at the start of the fight.

It’s even further elaborated to be absorption and not NEGATION.

Absorption is the act of taking in or soaking in some form of energy.
This energy is the shock/impacts of All Might’s punches.
He’s absorbing his attacks and holding them in.
As stated in the same scan, since it’s quirk is the act of taking his attacks and soaking it in, there must be a limit. A limit to how much it can absorb. Take note, on paper absorbing and negating are the SAME thing. One is him absorbing it and holding it in so he takes no damage, and the other is simply negating his attacks so they do no damage, but All Might states since it’s not the latter it MUST have a limit.
The opposing interpretation doesn’t hold up due to this belief, the belief being since he’s holding the energy in he’s got to have a limit to. That being how much he can hold. If it was simply a limit to how much of an attack he could absorb at a time, then this comparison wouldn’t have been pointed out as this is a limitation of either definitions, but its made due to the nature of absorption.
Just saying it again so it’s clear, the limit is referring to how much he can soak in and take, thats made clear, it’s hard to interpret it otherwise.
Even the argument of absorbing some and leaving out the rest makes no sense, this implies negation. Negation would be him negating some energy without being able to negate the rest. With absorption he’s taking the energy and holding it in. There’s no “limit” to how much he can absorb at a time as long as it doesn’t fill that bar up at a single time. If any energy gets through from a single punch, then that bar must be filled and the absorption would already be overcame. But we know that wasn’t and isn’t the case, so this argument is just untrue.
Repeating it again so there’s no confusion.
Taking some and leaving out the rest= some form of negation. Absorbing means to take in energy until a certain point (that point being until it is filled up), it’s absorbing any and all shock until it can’t no more, if it’s taking some and leaving the rest that depicts that it’s bar has already been overfilled which contradicts the entire fight. All Might in his plus ultra state has enough power to one shot the Nomu, at this point a single punch after the first would one shot the Nomu. That’s factual. But this isn’t shown or depicted, it’s just untrue.
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So to claim that Qaws option is more “conservative” is simply not true I feel. Their option has more variables and uncertainty in it, introducing a very arbitrary “negation factor” to Nomu’s quirk that goes against the series’ logic. Nomu cannot be unharmed/absorb a certain level of force and never reach a limit with how much it can actually take, as is being supposed with the idea that All Might never actually “wore out” shock absorption but just hurt Nomu through it. It is “absorbing” and that absorptions limit shouldn’t be “the amount it can negate.” The logic of “total amount it can absorb” simply follows what we see better with the lack of damage until the final hit and All Might’s own intelligence about his power.

The lack of anything contradicting the multiplier is nothing but additional backing, created in response to claims that there were contradictions. The actual feat/statement from All Might is all that matters, and there is simply no better explanation than what we have with the Total Energy option. Yes, of course there is maybe another interpretation out there, but you can say that for any feat, any statement, in the whole manga.

What matters is which is the most accurate, and I don’t see how the presented option isn’t incredibly valid with solid backing and, beyond just no contradictions, support for it later down the line.
 
Said it better than I could've lol. It just seems like even trying to fall back on Occam's razor and the "conservative" option as an argument ultimately still implies a multiplier, and a substantial one at that no matter what. And with 60x being by far the most reasonable one I still find it hard to see where it could be flat out unbelievable except through some level of incredulity.
 
Grand_Astartes said:
Said it better than I could've lol. It just seems like even trying to fall back on Occam's razor and the "conservative" option as an argument ultimately still implies a multiplier, and a substantial one at that no matter what. And with 60x being by far the most reasonable one I still find it hard to see where it could be flat out unbelievable except through some level of incredulity.
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Wouldn't Occam's Razor support this being a 60x multiplier anyway?
 
I still think the multiplier is fine. I mean it’s basic math and nothing debunks the 60x Multiplier. I mean narratively this Nomu is weaker than High Ends, who general top level heroes can fight against. Then you have Shigaraki easily dealing with this guys. So like… I don’t see an issue

Also come on guys… “The multiplier is too big” is not really an argument. Based on the scaling, OFA percentages are exponentially and give 100x differences between small percentages… This is Anime/Manga, strength growths of this size are basically the norm
 
DemonGodMitchAubin said:
I still think the multiplier is fine. I mean it’s basic math and nothing debunks the 60x Multiplier. I mean narratively this Nomu is weaker than High Ends, who general top level heroes can fight against. Then you have Shigaraki easily dealing with this guys. So like… I don’t see an issue

Also come on guys… “The multiplier is too big” is not really an argument. Based on the scaling, OFA percentages are exponentially and give 100x differences between small percentages… This is Anime/Manga, strength growths of this size are basically the norm
Click to expand...
Blpack Clover literally has 500 times multipliers on their stats, Shonen can throw around multipliers all they like, multipliers being too big is a non issue in shonen s
 
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