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Prime All Might Multiplier - Possible Discussion Thread Rule Addition After?

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Man, why the hell is this still going 😭.

As for the Kirishima statement, it makes no sense. For starters, he shouldn’t even be capable of seeing what’s going on, even if we assume this isn’t just a rhetorical statement (which it likely seems to be) and a narrative device to give us information, it still makes no sense.

If All Might is constantly dealing damage, which has already been refuted by not only me but KoW several times, then it’d have to be at a degree of noticeable damage and so much that All Might could damage the Nomu severely.

We know this isn’t, and cannot be the case.
On the final punch that defeated the Nomu he is virtually undamaged. He’s not bruised, coughing up blood or wobbling. He’s unfazed, yet the final punch could beat him.
We see that his face is normal, no bruises or cracks yet a punch to his stomach was enough to crack his teeth, break his jaw and knock him out? If he’s throwing 300+ punches and dealing “chip” damage for the Nomu to be weakened to that degree he would HAVE to be visibly damaged. If 300+ punches can’t even scratch him, how is the final destroying his jaw and knocking him out from a gut shot.
That’s not chip damage, that’s no where near a representation of chip damage, narratively that interpretation makes no sense.
The statement doesn’t even make sense, the statement made was about the pure power of his strikes, if he was just punching him faster than he could regenerate, then the statement would be about speed, not strength. We already know regeneration users using this quirk can almost regenerate entire limbs in mete moments and even the Nomu displayed this same feat, regenerating his entire muscle system, bones and all in a single setting.
The amount of damage All Might would have to be doing would have to be to the point of ripping him apart for any true chip damage to be meaningful otherwise he would be healing up any of that small amount of damage.
But the fact he’s unharmed and suddenly have a broken jaw from the final punch discredits chip damage, as this depicts that his power went from dealing no damage, to suddenly one shotting range. If the chip damage was always that great, he would have defeated him in 2 punches, but that damage didn’t happen and doesn’t exist.
Kirishima statement makes NO sense.
 
TimmyTurnero said:
Man, why the hell is this still going 😭.

As for the Kirishima statement, it makes no sense. For starters, he shouldn’t even be capable of seeing what’s going on, even if we assume this isn’t just a rhetorical statement (which it likely seems to be) and a narrative device to give us information, it still makes no sense.

If All Might is constantly dealing damage, which has already been refuted by not only me but KoW several times, then it’d have to be at a degree of noticeable damage and so much that All Might could damage the Nomu severely.

We know this isn’t, and cannot be the case.
On the final punch that defeated the Nomu he is virtually undamaged. He’s not bruised, coughing up blood or wobbling. He’s unfazed, yet the final punch could beat him.
We see that his face is normal, no bruises or cracks yet a punch to his stomach was enough to crack his teeth, break his jaw and knock him out? If he’s throwing 300+ punches and dealing “chip” damage for the Nomu to be weakened to that degree he would HAVE to be visibly damaged. If 300+ punches can’t even scratch him, how is the final destroying his jaw and knocking him out from a gut shot.
That’s not chip damage, that’s no where near a representation of chip damage, narratively that interpretation makes no sense.
The statement doesn’t even make sense, the statement made was about the pure power of his strikes, if he was just punching him faster than he could regenerate, then the statement would be about speed, not strength. We already know regeneration users using this quirk can almost regenerate entire limbs in mete moments and even the Nomu displayed this same feat, regenerating his entire muscle system, bones and all in a single setting.
The amount of damage All Might would have to be doing would have to be to the point of ripping him apart for any true chip damage to be meaningful otherwise he would be healing up any of that small amount of damage.
But the fact he’s unharmed and suddenly have a broken jaw from the final punch discredits chip damage, as this depicts that his power went from dealing no damage, to suddenly one shotting range. If the chip damage was always that great, he would have defeated him in 2 punches, but that damage didn’t happen and doesn’t exist.
Kirishima statement makes NO sense.
Click to expand...
Not even to mention that Kirishima is well, Kirishima. Narratively there is no reason to believe the word of Kirishima over All Might (the guy literally fighting him) along with every other piece of evidence. On top of that, by this point in the series, Kirishima has literally zero combat experience. There is just so much going against the whole Kirishima argument that it is very clearly just a last ditch argument.
 
Actually I'm reading the manga chapter of the USJ fights and I'm even more baffled at the counterarguments, absolutely nothing supports the idea surrounding the per punch argument... The crutch of the argument is explicitly disproven in the same chapter. Everything else is just further and further from the least amount of likely and valid assumptions in favor of a much more complex, invalid explanation likely stemming from incredulity.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So is there anything the mods in opposition would like to say? I feel we have explained both stances as best we can and I don’t truly see the current issues with the 60x multiplier.
Click to expand...
I mean, I do have one note: You can't just remove the graph section. It's for the thread to decide, not you.

At the moment it might be better to just make a staff thread since there's been far to much back and forth between a bunch of people.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
So is there anything the mods in opposition would like to say? I feel we have explained both stances as best we can and I don’t truly see the current issues with the 60x multiplier.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if there's any new ground to cover. About the core issues, we just have different interpretations.

I think there's more backing among the statements that the power gap is not intended to be as high as 60x and you feel that they're not enough to prevent a 60x multiplier.

Part of the issue (as far as I see it personally) is the assumption that 75% Shigaraki is exactly as durable as the High-Ends, so you end up with the seemingly huge disparity of Mirko tearing through the High-Ends and not being able to harm Complete Shigaraki. I think that 75% Shigaraki is a lot more durable than the High-Ends however given how Endeavor could tear off Hood's limb when he landed a direct hit on him but couldn't do nearly as much damage to Shigaraki, and 100% Izuku did a lot less damage to Shigaraki than Mirko to the High-Ends.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I mean, I do have one note: You can't just remove the graph section. It's for the thread to decide, not you.

At the moment it might be better to just make a staff thread since there's been far to much back and forth between a bunch of people.
Click to expand...
I’ll put it back then, it just seems to violate multiplier rules more than even the shock absorption did, not to mention it wasn’t originally part of the OP. As you can tell I do not run CRT’s often.


Damage3245 said:
I'm not sure if there's any new ground to cover. About the core issues, we just have different interpretations.

I think there's more backing among the statements that the power gap is not intended to be as high as 60x and you feel that they're not enough to prevent a 60x multiplier.

Part of the issue (as far as I see it personally) is the assumption that 75% Shigaraki is exactly as durable as the High-Ends, so you end up with the seemingly huge disparity of Mirko tearing through the High-Ends and not being able to harm Complete Shigaraki. I think that 75% Shigaraki is a lot more durable than the High-Ends however given how Endeavor could tear off Hood's limb when he landed a direct hit on him but couldn't do nearly as much damage to Shigaraki, and 100% Izuku did a lot less damage to Shigaraki than Mirko to the High-Ends.
Click to expand...
But we know that Shigaraki has to be as durable as them due to the Star and Stripe fight where, despite being even stronger, he was still comparable to the Nomu, who was not altered in anyway given nothing from the jets scanned or indicated extra quirks.

Yes, it is obscenely, ridiculously strange that Mirko can tear apart High Ends, but that is seemingly just how she’s designed to be by the story. Whether there is a massive gap or not, that problem will persist eternally for her AP. And as we all know with Endeavor, his damage comes from sheer heat not force, so it’s easier for him to dismember and vaporize the High Ends, not creating a contradiction.

I get the hesitation but every issue you have can be explained. It requires the unfortunate belief that Mirko is ungodly strong when she stops holding back and goes to kill people, such that in terms of sheer damage she is only behind Prime characters and none else, but that’s simply how the story has written her. There could be a 1.6x gap between weakend and Prime, but Mirko would still be one tearing chunks out of 75% Shigaraki given the showings of him and the Near High End being relative. It could be 1.05x and it still doesn’t address the massive gap in power where characters can combine attacks and do no damage, where Mirko cannot even scratch his skin with her kicks until his mental breakdown.

If this thread is moved to staff discussion, will I still be able to comment there as the OP? This thread is quite long and clearly requires a good understanding of both sides.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
But we know that Shigaraki has to be as durable as them due to the Star and Stripe fight where, despite being even stronger, he was still comparable to the Nomu, who was not altered in anyway given nothing from the jets scanned or indicated extra quirks.
Click to expand...
This is a part we disagree on.

While you may think it's fairly reasonable, you do have to admit that this bit of scaling is an assumption.

Kingofwolves999 said:
I get the hesitation but every issue you have can be explained. It requires the unfortunate belief that Mirko is ungodly strong when she stops holding back and goes to kill people, such that in terms of sheer damage she is only behind Prime characters and none else, but that’s simply how the story has written her. There could be a 1.6x gap between weakend and Prime, but Mirko would still be one tearing chunks out of 75% Shigaraki given the showings of him and the Near High End being relative. It could be 1.05x and it still doesn’t address the massive gap in power where characters can combine attacks and do no damage, where Mirko cannot even scratch his skin with her kicks until his mental breakdown.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately we will never know for certain that Mirko can tear chunks out of 75% Shigarkai - it just seems extremely unlikely to me based on the depiction of other comparable characters.

It is also seems extremely unlikely to me that Mirko is intended to be depicted as way stronger than 100% Izuku, when 100% Izuku is doing things like this and this and Mirko strikes are never portrayed to carry anything like the same amount of force as this.
 
Damage3245 said:
This is a part we disagree on.

While you may think it's fairly reasonable, you do have to admit that this bit of scaling is an assumption.


Unfortunately we will never know for certain that Mirko can tear chunks out of 75% Shigarkai - it just seems extremely unlikely to me based on the depiction of other comparable characters.

It is also seems extremely unlikely to me that Mirko is intended to be depicted as way stronger than 100% Izuku, when 100% Izuku is doing things like this and this and Mirko strikes are never portrayed to carry anything like the same amount of force as this.
Click to expand...
How is it an assumption? 97% Shigaraki and the Nomu each take comparable damage from Star’s giant, it’s the entire basis for the High Ends. Their stats can’t wildly differ, as the entire point of them is to be as strong as Hood despite the Near High End’s incompletion. What assumption am I making? Isn’t it your assumption this Nomu has to be different from the rest? The heroes are stunned when the Near High Ends display new abilities, and these Near High Ends were in a war that would make their abilities memorable. If the jets scanned nothing different with this Nomu, then what assumption am I making to say that it is normal?

Muscular could clash with 100% Deku yet he NEVER displayed shockwave feats even on par with his finger flicks. Or what about 75% Shigaraki himself who never showed massive shockwave potential despite being on the same level as the USJ Nomu? Or any High End that never displays shockwave potential despite their stats being higher than the USJ Nomu? Or even the USJ Nomu itself not demonstrating OFA level shockwaves despite being equal to All Might at the time?

Shockwaves are simply inconsistently thrown around in this series, and using them as a basis for who is strong doesn’t result in anything. Look at even Star and Stripe, whose full forward launch and punch against 97% Shigaraki, hard enough to draw blood from him, didn’t produce near the level of Shockwaves even his 75% self could create. I just don’t believe that line of logic is consistent, and it seems shockwave abilities are heavily limited to OFA users such as Deku and All Might.
 
Heck even Deku himself isn’t consistent with shockwaves. When Deku is using Full Cowl 100% against Overhaul, he doesn’t produce shockwaves anywhere close to the level of his previous 100% attacks. Despite launching a massive barrage of punches, finishing with a final KO hit and even throwing Chisaki over his shoulder, no shockwaves on the level of his feats in, say, his first fight with Bakugo, are shown.

Using shockwaves as a measure for how strong someone is simply cannot be how we measure things. If we did, how can we explain Endeavor physically breaking AFO’s barrier quirk and dragging him along the floor, but not producing Weakened AM level shockwaves with every attack he sends?
 
This adds absolutely nothing to the thread's outcome, but I agree with the 60x multiplier. Shock absorption absorbs the energy until a certain threshold, it doesn't delete 99% of it. Absorption vs negation. Nomu takes no visible damage till the last shot, if he was steadily being chipped down we could see that.
 
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