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Prime All Might Multiplier - Possible Discussion Thread Rule Addition After?

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TimmyTurnero said:
But there’s still 3 In disagreement right? We actually need some of the disagreeing mods to change their mind or a tie breaker, hopefully the opposing side reads the new arguments and change their mind
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Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but content mods don't have evaluation rights. So, counting only staff votes, it would be 2-2.
 
SuperStar said:
Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but content mods don't have evaluation rights. So, counting only staff votes, it would be 2-2.
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Content mods don't have official evaluation rights, but you're still generally supposed to consider their votes with more weight than regular members.
Anyway, what are the arguments and vote tally here?
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
To any joining, these are the arguments and presentations for the feats and statements. Nothing contradicts the 60x multiplier, and no given explanation is more accurate, simple or consistent with character intelligence in a way that is better than our currently agreed upon method (Total Energy Absorption).

As such I’m open to begin counting votes from mods based on the evidence and arguments provided, especially since those in opposition to the multiplier and its logic have no running stance.
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Kingofwolves999 said:
Arguments:

Per-Punch Absorption

The claim that Nomu’s absorption works off a “set defense stat” has been addressed as follows.

The logic if a set defense stat falls apart when actual number are put to it in any way. Using Qaws example, 99 vs 100 and 159 gives a 1.6x difference, but a 699 vs 700 and 759 gives a 1.085x difference.

This makes the actual grounds of the argument shaky, but what really creates mass assumptions and out of the box reasoning is that All Might would had to have done this math in the first place. Despite Kirishima’s statement about the regeneration and how All Might defeated it, it’s simply a wild assumption to believe that All Might could pinpoint how much damage he was doing vs how much was absorbed, so accurately that he could tell how many hits his Prime would take, in a manner that requires him to do that for EVERY PUNCH.

This explanation for the occurrence simply requires far too many assumptions to be comfortably usable. This argument from TheRustyOne sums it up quite well.

All Might sends Nomu flying with over 300 punches. He then says that in his heyday, he'd be able to perform the same feat with only 5 punches.

The argument here is simple, what does All Might statement actually mean? What is the simplest explanation? Occam's Razor and all that.

Nomu's Shock Absorption here is honestly irrelevant to me, since I find the idea that All Might is calculating Nomu's Quirk as he's punching him to be absurd. All Might is just going by what he remembers his strength was and where his strength is now as he's punching Nomu.

All Might knows how strong he was back in his prime, he knows how strong he is currently, and he knows how many punches it took to blow away Nomu. His statement isn't about Nomu's Shock Absorption working in a highly specific way. It's him finally realizing just how much weaker he's gotten from his heyday.

All Might was unaware of this until now because he's never fought anyone who was able to push him to his 100% ever since he fought AFO. He knew he was getting weaker, but he just didn't realize how much weaker he had gotten.

We don't know what Horikoshi was planning with this statement, we have to interpret the meaning of it to the best of our abilities. Death of the Author and all that. But I do find the idea that All Might can somehow calculate such a thing to be absurd.

Statements

The statements given by every character so far do not create any sort of contradiction to the 60x multiplier.

Many statements for All Might’s power or characters “as strong as All Might” or “not as strong as All Might” revolve around varying perceptions of the character, with the most important perceptions of that power only able to come from All Might himself and Shigaraki in the final war, as he is the most explicit about the state of All Might he refers to.

Other than All Might and Shigaraki (and I suppose Hawks data book statement), most other statements are incredibly vague about what version of All Might they are referring to, bouncing back and forth with no clear indication if the person talking is referring to his Prime or not, or even if they’re a credible source given All Might has been trying to keep his power under wraps.

Feats

No feats disprove a 60x multiplier, which is at times more important than any statement. The gap presented between All Might and everyone else, through a feats only perspective, can come from Complete Shigaraki, who tanks, mocks and one shots everyone that comes before him. He is the only character shown to be so otherworldly powerful compared to the other characters that they can’t even scratch his skin or damage him in any meaningful way, to the point that even a character like Mirko who can tear chunks out of the supposedly deadly High Ends is nothing to him.

Conclusion

There is so far no alternative, simpler answer to the All Might vs Nomu statement that results in something contradictory to the 60x multiplier being valid.

There are no statements that can be used to claim Prime All Might isn’t 60x stronger than everyone else, and when searching for statements SPECIFIC to Prime All Might, they all come back to a character that can tank, one shot and slap around every other character in the verse.

The feats for characters on Prime AM’s level only exacerbate the clear jump in power he has over them. His level of power is such that characters cannot even scratch his skin with their attacks, that even when they combine their attacks into a massive cannon, they are mocked that they thought it would even work. No character was meant to even fight a Prime All Might level character, as that job was meant to be left to, you guessed it, a different Prime All Might level character.

So the only logic I can garner from all this is that the 60x is valid until a simpler, not assumption heavy alternative is presented, and that it is not contradicted in anyway by the manga( through either statements or feats.
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TimmyTurnero said:
KoWs has been doing such a good job carrying this thread it’s crazy. But for some odd reason opposition keeps asserting this belief that shock absorption has a limit to how much it absorbs at a time, which is really, really baseless.

Shock vs Negation
I truly don’t understand why this part is so difficult to understand, it’s made clear by All Might and Tomura at the start of the fight.

It’s even further elaborated to be absorption and not NEGATION.

Absorption is the act of taking in or soaking in some form of energy.
This energy is the shock/impacts of All Might’s punches.
He’s absorbing his attacks and holding them in.
As stated in the same scan, since it’s quirk is the act of taking his attacks and soaking it in, there must be a limit. A limit to how much it can absorb. Take note, on paper absorbing and negating are the SAME thing. One is him absorbing it and holding it in so he takes no damage, and the other is simply negating his attacks so they do no damage, but All Might states since it’s not the latter it MUST have a limit.
The opposing interpretation doesn’t hold up due to this belief, the belief being since he’s holding the energy in he’s got to have a limit to. That being how much he can hold. If it was simply a limit to how much of an attack he could absorb at a time, then this comparison wouldn’t have been pointed out as this is a limitation of either definitions, but its made due to the nature of absorption.
Just saying it again so it’s clear, the limit is referring to how much he can soak in and take, thats made clear, it’s hard to interpret it otherwise.
Even the argument of absorbing some and leaving out the rest makes no sense, this implies negation. Negation would be him negating some energy without being able to negate the rest. With absorption he’s taking the energy and holding it in. There’s no “limit” to how much he can absorb at a time as long as it doesn’t fill that bar up at a single time. If any energy gets through from a single punch, then that bar must be filled and the absorption would already be overcame. But we know that wasn’t and isn’t the case, so this argument is just untrue.
Repeating it again so there’s no confusion.
Taking some and leaving out the rest= some form of negation. Absorbing means to take in energy until a certain point (that point being until it is filled up), it’s absorbing any and all shock until it can’t no more, if it’s taking some and leaving the rest that depicts that it’s bar has already been overfilled which contradicts the entire fight. All Might in his plus ultra state has enough power to one shot the Nomu, at this point a single punch after the first would one shot the Nomu. That’s factual. But this isn’t shown or depicted, it’s just untrue.
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These as well.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer said:
Content mods don't have official evaluation rights, but you're still generally supposed to consider their votes with more weight than regular members.
Anyway, what are the arguments and vote tally here?
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It’s currently, as shown at the bottom of OP, 2 mods vs 2 mods (and Therefir as a Content Mod), but the arguments against the OP have been quite soundly disproven.

Essentially, a character makes a statement that implies a 60x multiplier based on the number of hits it took to defeat another. This resulted in the “Total Energy argument” wherein the 60x is possible, and takes into account the characters Intelligence and actual ability to calculate his own power, in an incredibly simple manner consistent with his thinking.

The alternate explanation and attempt at a debunk was the Per-Punch argument, which is rebutted to in the above replys.

Beyond that, the only arguments agaisnt the 60x multiplier was inconsistency, which could not be proven and instead is heavily supported by the incredibkg massive gap between the proposed 60x character and other characters. The gap being so large that other characters cannot even scratch his skin when combining attacks.

As such there is no running argument against the multiplier and everything given, even by the opposition, does nothing but support it.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
It’s currently, as shown at the bottom of OP, 2 mods vs 2 mods (and Therefir as a Content Mod), but the arguments against the OP have been quite soundly disproven.

Essentially, a character makes a statement that implies a 60x multiplier based on the number of hits it took to defeat another. This resulted in the “Total Energy argument” wherein the 60x is possible, and takes into account the characters Intelligence and actual ability to calculate his own power, in an incredibly simple manner consistent with his thinking.

The alternate explanation and attempt at a debunk was the Per-Punch argument, which is rebutted to in the above replys.

Beyond that, the only arguments agaisnt the 60x multiplier was inconsistency, which could not be proven and instead is heavily supported by the incredibkg massive gap between the proposed 60x character and other characters. The gap being so large that other characters cannot even scratch his skin when combining attacks.

As such there is no running argument against the multiplier and everything given, even by the opposition, does nothing but support it.
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In that case, put me down as agreeing.
 
IdiosyncraticLawyer and Therefir don't have thread evaluation rights.

Right now it's 2 vs. 2 as far as staff goes.
 
Spinoirr said:
Basically our votes are pretty much useless lol
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Well we can attempt to persuade but yes. They could realistically pass a caterpillar as tier 0 if they wanted to and that would be the main stance of the wiki. Of course something like that won't happen.
 
HollowVanity said:
thats actually really sad ngl
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I mean every forum needs some management so I get it. At least the battles are still via total votes and not staff votes, while crt are via stafff votes which has both advantages and disadvantages but seeing which one is better is pretty difficult and probably a case by case scenario.
 
HollowVanity said:
Erm, I think I agree although it seems outlierish
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Outlier to what? Prime AM is featless beyond Shigaraki, who memed on everyone and took no damage from their strongest attacks except from Bakugo’s heat, which he even claimed was nothing compared to his second awakening.

Like IDK, when people are so much weaker than him that they can’t even scratch his skin, let alone get mocked for combining attacks and thinking it will do anything, the barrier for how strong he can be is pretty high.
 
Bruh, how come no other mod has voted all this time while i was taking a nap. Can just Damage take one for the team and vote he agrees since we all know that it's going to get accepted.
 
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