Ainz Ooal Gown vs Strahd von Zarovich

[Apeironaxim]

I guess since he technically can kill him it's not a stomp then

I feel like Strahd wins, due to Bambu's of wittling Ainz down. Even if Ainz just bombards him with spells he'll run out of MP, maybe he'll try TGOALID, but I'm not sure that's enough either.

I just see no conceivable way for Ainz to find this room before he dies.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Most anti-divination abilities don't work on Ainz's scrying stuff tho.

Pretty sure he just has really high resistance to being scryed, not being able to bypass really high level anti-scrying magic

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Most anti-divination abilities don't work on Ainz's scrying stuff tho.

Again, Strahd's scaling chain. Nondetection gets bonuses too (sauce) so it has a base of 15. Plus Strahd's level which is at least 15.

So DC 30. base resistance is 11. So 19 tiers of scaling.

If it seems unlikely Ainz can find him I suppose I would vote for Strahd since the scaling chain is bigger on his mindhax (albeit slightly) and he can widdle down Ainz' resistance.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Yeah, even with Ainz's one revive I heavily doubt he's finding a random room before he's killed again

I'll vote Strahd then

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Does Ainz even have a one-time revive? I thought that was Shalltear.

 

[Apeironaxim]

In his Main Equipment

• Ring that allows the user to resurrect with little loss of exp.

 

[Moritzva]

How big is the place and how unlikely is it for him to find it? Ainz is likely pretty well-informed about fantasy tropes as a human nerd and would eventually think to search for a coffin after the dude is dusted for the third time. Once he knows to find it, he just slaps a Perfect Unknowable/Invisibility spell on himself and starts teleporting around instead.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Inb4 Strahd has 10 something degrees of seeing through that stuff lol

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Inb4 Strahd has 10 something degrees of seeing through that stuff lol

The DnD classic.

 

[Moritzva]

Inb4 Strahd has 10 something degrees of seeing through that stuff lol

The DnD classic.

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised. Every D&D debate basically goes down with a normal debate for the first 20-30ish posts, then Bambu comes in and just says "oh btw that hax is 1d6+3-dimensional hax".

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. Main issue is finding it prior to actually getting mindhaxed/sealed away somewhere.

2. Strahd's enhanced senses allow him to hard counter invisibility, plus he can detect him through magic auras.

3. The size of Barovia is literally a country. The exact size of the country is never given but it isn't described as large or small- it contains cities, armies, etc.

 

[Moritzva]

>literally the size of a country

Alright, RIP Ainz.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

I dunno, seems slightly stomping if Ainz's only win condition is that hard to pull off.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean

His AP literally allows him to one-shot

The gap is around 10x.

D&D is pretty good but their standard resistances don't include raw damage. Strahd may be immune to certain damage types entirely (necrotic) but generally speaking Ainz can hit Strahd with any move and vaporize him on his way to Castle Ravenloft.

 

[Moritzva]

How many times does he need to do that to win, though?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Dunno. Like I said, Strahd requires a rest while he regenerates- upon reaching apparent "death", he reduces himself to vapor and regenerates in his little safe-room for 1-2 hours (varies depending on the source you're looking at).

I'm not saying it's likely, but I am saying it is possible.

 

[Moritzva]

Wait, would Strahd even be able to find Ainz in the country anymore? It is quite big and giving him two hours to walk around might result in just losing him.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In-character Strahd uses summons to spy on his enemies. Bats, wolves, etc, constantly track his enemies.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

In-character Strahd uses summons to spy on his enemies. Bats, wolves, etc, constantly track his enemies.

Would the bats and wolves be able to get past Ainz's own stealth spells, though?

Keep in mind if Strahd takes time to regen that basically gives Ainz prep. That means he can pull off something like wish and ask something along the lines of "I would like to know how to permanently destroy my opponent" or something like that.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Yeah, they possess the same capacity to track as Strahd. He can see through their eyes and such.

D&D unironically resists wish.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

D&D unironically resists wish.

Of course it does.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It does

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Ok but that isn't Ainz's wish, nor does it say that it can be resisted, and also DnD has a super OP answer for literally every power that can ever conceivably exist for some reason. It just seems ludicrous.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The wish is reality warping and causality manipulation.

What would you like me to say? That we just ignore the writers because their ideas are perposterous and shouldn't be allowed? It being ludicrous isn't the point. It is a series of high-magic-fantasy spanning four decades with hundreds of writers with a good amount of that time hell-bent on adding new content in the forms of powers, spells, lore, etc. Of course it's going to be strong.

D&D characters maintain the capacity to resist a spell that does literally the exact same thing as Ainz through the same methods plus causality manip. What more do I need to say?

Also gonna point out that... we accept much more ridiculous/absurd verses on here. D&D's Saves system is far from the worst.

 

[DragonEmperor23]

dabs in TES singing= reality warping

 

[Assaltwaffle]

What even is the canon of DnD? Isn't is just a "make up your own adventure" game?

Also I don't see anything about causality on wish's page, and reality warping can be on a different level considering the numerous restrictions DnD's wish seems to possess. I still don't see where it is resisted.

And I just have a grudge against DnD because it seems so purposely ridiculous. Like Altair is already absurd, but it's her whole thing that she's unbeatable through normal means. The DnD cast is freaking stronger than her by a massive margin for the high tiers and they are not meant to be absurdly broken, they just are. That's what gets to me. Extreme and overriding power for no actual narrative purpose.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

...all of the canon? There's tons of it, do you actually want me to explain it all to you? In Strahd's case the story is largely on his page and in his books. There are plenty of books referenced at the bottom of his page if you actually want to look into it. The Ravenloft setting is quite popular.

That's just the 3.5e SRD. SRD = System Reference Document. It's basically the open-source content available online, free to access and displays the actual stats of the game (albeit only in 3.5 edition). "An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies." "Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn). Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's successful critical hit (either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend's failed save, and so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell resistance (if any) applies."

Unwilling targets get resistances to saves.

It isn't. In-game everyone resists everything. The purpose is actually pretty fair- it allows high-level characters to quickly deal with low-level threats without wasting time beating them to death individually. Just cloudkill or move on. Or whatever. Resistances mean you can't just hax each other to death while on the same level as your opponent. And saying a lot of it has no narrative purpose isn't entirely true. Devils are abstract because the Outer Planes are maleable universes, and can be altered with will, Demons are born from sins because loldemons.jpg (obvious answer is obvious), so on and so forth.

Have a grudge all you like. But that's the reality of D&D. They made it strong. Oh well.

 

[Apeironaxim]

What's the vote count?

 

[DragonEmperor23]

Strahd fra

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I was talking about Ainz using wish to gain knowledge on how to defeat Strahd, not to use wish directly on Strahd. Resisting wish is also unironically a thing in Overlord, hence why when Ainz realizes that super tier magic/hax won't work, he won't attempt to use wish directly on Strahd, as it would be another Shalltear situation. So if he's looking to find the location he needs to nuke to kill Strahd, couldn't he pop a wish to gain knowledge on how to defeat him, since there is no direct interaction with Strahd himself?

 

[Moritzva]

D&D lul.

I need Bambu to give a quick post on just how stupid D&D is, for all my friends who doubt it would be above building level.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Dargoo

Well resisting the wish itself isn't a thing, it's just that the effect of the wish can be canceled if said effect is countered by a stronger item. So you can't resist the wish in its entirety, just specific effects that have limitations.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Also, I believe I've asked this before, but aren't all DnD resistances based on chance? Isn't that different than being unaffected by an ability in general?

 

[Moritzva]

Also, I believe I've asked this before, but aren't all DnD resistances based on chance? Isn't that different than being unaffected by an ability in general?

If you ever end up asking yourself "But wait, that's not exactly how it works in D&D?", chances are that's exactly how it works on VsBattlesWiki.

Bambu could probably just say random shit about 7-D D&D and nobody would bat an eye.

 

[Yobo_Blue]

TBH, no one will care about DND unless they start threatening spots in the "Strongest for Every Tier Threads"

 

[Yobo_Blue]

And by threaten, I mean hardcore demolish Masadaverse style

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, resisting a great range of powers is not special from DnD, several tabletop games including Anima, The Shadow of the Demon Lord, Exalted and more can resist to anything; is not like tabletop characters are special and can resist to anything, is more like nothing is quite special and all powers can be resisted.

You may argue that Zarovich can resist to Aizen magic, but it also work the other way around, Ainz can also resist to its magic (or any power than force a salvation throw), and considering the intelligence and charm of Ainz, he could have a fair chance.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I sense a little bit of hostility from Pixel and Assault, and politely ask for you guys to tone it down. If you disagree with how we treat Dungeons and Dragons, then this thread is not the best place to discuss it at length. Until then, the resistances function as Bambu claimed they are. I was mostly just asking for clarification (probably for the second time) in regards to how we treat the resistances on site if they're chance-based.

Keep in mind DnD is a very fluid verse that varies from dungeon master to dungeon master. There will be some headscratchers no matter what direction we take the ratings and hax in.

 

[Moritzva]

If I'm coming off that way, I'm sorry. I honestly can't argue that D&D is being mistreated, partially because I don't have a clue in the world and I'm just assuming it's all as Bambu says. Bambu is a rational person, and there's no reason to doubt it.

It won't stop me from making jokes at it's expense, though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Also, I believe I've asked this before, but aren't all DnD resistances based on chance? Isn't that different than being unaffected by an ability in general?

Yes and no.

The "chance" is purely game mechanics and not the only method of resisting. In theory, yes, a 9-B can lolnope 2-A mindhax because they got two twenties in a row.

However, we on the wiki use the actually concrete method of resistance- "Taking 10" is a thing in D&D canonically presented as an alternative to ensure resisting lower-tier abilities. The premise is you automatically take a ten (average) roll then just add your own actual resistances to that. Hence why we consider DC 11 baseline resistance and scale up from there.