Strahd von Zarovich vs Gunvolt: The Land and The Lightning

[The_Smashor]

So, Gunvolt got some fancy-schmancy Mid-Godly regeneration, so I thought why not put him against one of the most iconic villains of my other obsession, Strahd from DND?

Oh, and also this is a fight for the 2nd strongest non-smurf Low 7-B character.

Rules: Speed Equalized if necessary. This is Gunvolt merged with Joule before she was weakened, with Anthem.

The Azure Striker:	The First Vampire:​

Inconclusive:​

 

[Smashtwig]

Uh electricity resist?

Edit: fudge I forgot GV bypasses that

 

[Smashtwig]

Normally I would copy paste the explaination for Prevasion but this madlad bypasses so it's all good. I'll do what I do for my other matches though

Gunvolt (3.1 Megas)
Pros

• His games good guys plz play them
• Mid G Regen wtf
• Joule unironically helps GV survive death spell
• Resists Fell Drain Lightning
• Bypasses Electricity Resistance

Cons

• No resistance of Mind hax, though DnD has Will Saves, which Gunvolt has plenty of

Strahd (4.8 Megas)
Pros

• Wtf how much spells and resistances does he have
• Mid-High Regen
• Bypasses Prevasion entirely

Cons

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

gunvolt does not seem to resist mind hax so strahd via mind hax and resistances lowering

 

[Smashtwig]

Not sure if he’s capable of seeing or even controlling Joule though. However this definitely is a thing.

Mid G Regen still exists

 

[Oleggator]

So, does Gunvolt have ways to incap or he needs to make a hit?

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Not sure if he’s capable of seeing or even controlling Joule though. However this definitely is a thing.

Mid G Regen still exists

regen won`t save him from mind hax

 

[Smashtwig]

Isn’t the win condition, like... death?

 

[Smashtwig]

Tbh I don’t think GV has a win condition, but I don’t think Strahad can put him down either

 

[Dragonstitch]

Isn’t the win condition, like... death?

No you can win by incapacitating them, BFR them, knocking them out, or killing them. Strahd can do 3 of those 4 things.

 

[The_Smashor]

regen won`t save him from mind hax

The Mind Hax is limited, correct? Strahd can't force Gunvolt to do extremely out of character things, like kill himself. It can also be broken out of with will saves, and Gunvolt has enough willpower that he'd be able to at least somewhat resist it (Also Will Saves are Wisdom and Martial Arts is a Wisdom thing in DND thanks to Monk and Gunvolt knows martial arts)

Also, Joule can mindhax over a million Adepts (Even if we assume Japan's population is only 1% Adepts, Joule could theoretically totally control 1,261,262 Adepts. And that's not even factoring that Japan probably has a higher population by the time Gunvolt happens, since it's vaguely in the future). So yeah, I think Joule could do something about Strahd's mindhax.

 

[Dragonstitch]

The Mind Hax is limited, correct? Strahd can't force Gunvolt to do extremely out of character things, like kill himself. It can also be broken out of with will saves, and Gunvolt has enough willpower that he'd be able to at least somewhat resist it (Also Will Saves are Wisdom and Martial Arts is a Wisdom thing in DND thanks to Monk and Gunvolt knows martial arts)

Also, Joule can mindhax over a million Adepts (Even if we assume Japan's population is only 1% Adepts, Joule could theoretically totally control 1,261,262 Adepts. And that's not even factoring that Japan probably has a higher population by the time Gunvolt happens, since it's vaguely in the future). So yeah, I think Joule could do something about Strahd's mindhax.

Gunvolt being able to use Martial Arts does not mean that he has D&D resistances, as well Martial Arts in D&D is a dexterity thing not a wisdom thing.

On top of that Strahd's mindhax should up scales from people that can mind hax a nation worth of people and can make people act out of character.

As well it was pointed out in the Ainz vs Strahd match that Strahd has a resistance to resistance negating which should have a 22 link chain to it. So Gunvolt is negating none of his resistances.

 

[The_Smashor]

On top of that Strahd's mindhax should up scales from people that can mind hax a nation worth of people and can make people act out of character.

Who's mindhax is it and what is the evidence Strahd's dominate, which can only target one person, would scale to them?

Also, population density was a lot lower in the time DND generally is considered to take place in, so mindhaxing a whole nation might be less impressive than Joule.

As well it was pointed out in the Ainz vs Strahd match that Strahd has a resistance to resistance negating which should have a 22 link chain to it. So Gunvolt is negating none of his resistances.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean like

Strahd's main abilities are in the realm of mind manip and death/soul manip, plus the age old "seal you in a crypt that you can't leave, dumbass"

Strahd's mindhax absolutely laughably upscale from the Nilbog, who possesses mindhax that functions against an entire goblin kingdom (potentially can reach up to thousands of individuals, even if such instances are exceedingly rare). Strahd is also comparable to the lowest echelons of Elder Brains who have a mindhax radius of potentially a small country.

 

[Dragonstitch]

Okay it was goblin kingdoms which I got clarification is in the hundreds, maybe low thousands from Nilbog. And Strahd would scale since characters that stahd can easily mind hax those can resist Nilbog's mind hax.

As well it is known that not all the Resistances for D&D Characters are not on there pages.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I can link D&D resistances if you like but it is incomplete, hence not being on pages. Out of the hundreds of books out there the resistances page includes like 2.

 

[The_Smashor]

Okay it was goblin kingdoms which I got clarification is in the hundreds, maybe low thousands from Nilbog. And Strahd would scale since characters that stahd can easily mind hax those can resist Nilbog's mind hax.

As well it is known that not all the Resistances for D&D Characters are not on there pages.

Like I said, Joule's potency is over a million, so she could easily break Gunvolt out of Strahd's mindhax. Laughably upscaling from low thousands is still way below a million.

And a reminder, a million is a lowball.

I can link D&D resistances if you like but it is incomplete, hence not being on pages. Out of the hundreds of books out there the resistances page includes like 2.

Strahd only resists Electricity, resisting it in his 3.5e stat block. He's not immune to electricity on his level, unlike Asimov, who Gunvolt can damage.

How exactly does Strahd resist Resistance Negation, anyways?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't know what you're talking about with Electricity since that wasn't a point I personally made but noted.

Is there any counter to Strahd's other main forms of dealing with people (soul manip/death manip/sealing)? It should also be noted, I feel, in the OP, that Strahd's type 8 is further reliant on the Dark Powers controlling Ravenloft, which should be equivalent to the Raven Queen last I checked.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't know what you're talking about with Electricity since that wasn't a point I personally made but noted.

Is there any counter to Strahd's other main forms of dealing with people (soul manip/death manip/sealing)? It should also be noted, I feel, in the OP, that Strahd's type 8 is further reliant on the Dark Powers controlling Ravenloft, which should be equivalent to the Raven Queen last I checked.

To be clear, I am aware they possess Mid-Godly regen, I'm simply asking if anything stops them from dying to force them to regenerate. It is, on some level, an advantage.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

also wait why is Strahd the strongest Low 7-B or whatever, the abstracts and shit exist

 

[The_Smashor]

I don't know what you're talking about with Electricity since that wasn't a point I personally made but noted.

Is there any counter to Strahd's other main forms of dealing with people (soul manip/death manip/sealing)? It should also be noted, I feel, in the OP, that Strahd's type 8 is further reliant on the Dark Powers controlling Ravenloft, which should be equivalent to the Raven Queen last I checked.

Someone said that Strahd had resistance to Resistance Negation, I thought you were talking about that.

Also, just to mention, Joule both wouldn't and couldn't mindhax Strahd himself, since her mindhax only works on Adepts (Though it would let her protect Gunvolt's mind)

To be clear, I am aware they possess Mid-Godly regen, I'm simply asking if anything stops them from dying to force them to regenerate. It is, on some level, an advantage.

I don't see Strahd's soulhax on his profile, so you'll need to explain to me what it does.

For each of Strahd's deathhaxes (That I can see)

1. With Finger of Death, Gunvolt has enough constitution to endure it and can probably get back up with Mid-Godly regen (He can come back from his soul being killed, so this shouldn't be that hard to come back from). Not to mention Prevasionlol means it might not even hit him to begin with.
2. With Death Spell, Joule coincidentally has the one thing that can counter that, Causality Manipulation. Also, debatably, Mid-Godly would let him come back since (To my knowledge) nothing in DND that you can hit with this spell has regeneration at this level (Though you'll have to tell me weather or not that works)

With sealing, Strahd's only means of doing so are Maze, which dosn't last long enough for an incap and can be escaped if Gunvolt gets lucky; and sealing them in Barovia, except Strahd's curse kinda means the fight's already happening there unless I'm misunderstanding things. Afaik those are Strahd's only two means of sealing somebody.

also wait why is Strahd the strongest Low 7-B or whatever, the abstracts and shit exist

The abstracts have smurf hax (I assume), which bans them from the non-smurf list.

 

[Smashtwig]

I’m pretty sure this is a stomp in Strahd’s favor, but I feel like y’all really underestimating Joule mindhax. Project Muse was country wide, but for all intensive purposes they can likely control the entire world with her. Sumer Ali is basically the world’s only hope against Adepts, so over time-

Wait I’m dumb, her mind control needs to be enhanced either by the Media Tower or Babel to reach far away Adept, nvm

Also Prevasion don’t work here. They have NonPhysical on elementals. I don’t even think GV has anything for Mid High Regen either

 

[The_Smashor]

Wait I’m dumb, her mind control needs to be enhanced either by the Media Tower or Babel to reach far away Adept, nvm

It's more so they enhance the radius, IIRC. Joule herself and drugs (Which they clearly haven't used on her since they're incredibly addictive) are the only way to actually enhance a Septima.

 

[Smashtwig]

That is true, Mind Hax likely don’t work, when I get back on computer I’ll update the points made thing I made up top

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I mean Strahd does resist resistance negation, yes, but I also fail to see how that comes into play with your Joule argument, given that seems to be talking about mindhax?

With all due respect, you can't arbitrarily decide a character from a different verse has enough constitution since that mechanic isn't equatable across verses. Prevasion was also mentioned to be a moot point by someone who I assume is more knowledgeable than me up above. Regarding the other anti-death-hax thing, Strahd resists Causality Manip. Things do have Mid-Godly but it's fine. This does remind me that Strahd actually has Causality Manip, in the form of Wish, which is another win-con I've forgotten about.

Strahd's soul-hax includes Enervation (Statistics Reduction down to 10-C and eventually death via not having the stats to survive) an Bind the Soul (lock someone into a designated area, which then mimics their life- as long as they live, the area lives, when they die, the area dies, etc).

The abstracts aren't smurfs? I don't care much for the list, but it should be known that outside of certain specific individuals (like the recently-made Undying Temple), none of the D&D Low 7-Bs are defaultly smurfs- this trait begins at the 6-Cs. So, Outsiders like Balors and Maruts and such aren't smurfs.

 

[The_Smashor]

I mean Strahd does resist resistance negation, yes, but I also fail to see how that comes into play with your Joule argument, given that seems to be talking about mindhax?

I was talking about Strahd's lightning resistance.

With all due respect, you can't arbitrarily decide a character from a different verse has enough constitution since that mechanic isn't equatable across verses.

Constitution in DND refers to Health, stamina and resistance to extreme heat and cold among other things. It's not that hard to equate.

Regarding the other anti-death-hax thing, Strahd resists Causality Manip.

Him resisting it dosn't matter since it only needs to be used on Gunvolt for him to survive the Death Spell.

This does remind me that Strahd actually has Causality Manip, in the form of Wish, which is another win-con I've forgotten about.

In what way is it in-character for him to use that?

Strahd's soul-hax includes Enervation (Statistics Reduction down to 10-C and eventually death via not having the stats to survive)

Enervation is something that can be dodged (At least in 5e), and as such something that needs to be hit, and as such something Gunvolt can dodge and also ignore with Prevasion.

Bind the Soul (lock someone into a designated area, which then mimics their life- as long as they live, the area lives, when they die, the area dies, etc)

That seems like a thing that would be outright beneficial to use on Gunvolt and can be undone with Joule's Causality Manipulation.

 

[Smashtwig]

something that needs to be hit, and as such something Gunvolt can dodge and also ignore with Prevasion.

Prevasion no worky here bro, NonPhysical

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm still lost regarding the lightning resistance conversation.

It abso-*******-lutely is hard to equate, given Constitution in D&D gives resistance to things like Death Manip and Soul Manip. Much like in a case like, say, Anima, we wouldn't arbitrarily hand out Gnosis values to everyone, we can't just say "eh I think this person has good enough Constitution".

Ah, okay. I misunderstood, then.

I mean. It's just an option he has, I suppose? I'm not saying it's like his go-to ability, I feel I've already documented those decently up above. I'm saying that if all else fails, Wish your problems away for instant results.

Enervation being dodgeable does not guarantee they will manage to do so. I've also forgotten about a couple other soul-oriented abilities, like the fell-draining lightning (which may have interesting implications here, given homeboy is immune to lightning and yet not the soul drain that comes with this particular jolt). Either way, "dodge lmao" is not a good argument, particularly not when people significantly weaker than Strahd have fairly great feats of anti-aimdodge defense. As mentioned now multiple times, Prevasion means nothing here.

...in what way would him being Sealed in, say, some random crypt, be beneficial?

 

[The_Smashor]

I'm still lost regarding the lightning resistance conversation.

Basically, Strahd resists lightning, taking reduced damage from it. He also resists having that resistance negated. However, Gunvolt's resistance negation lets him damage characters who are outright immune to electricity. So basically we're trying to figure out if Gunvolt's resistance negation is potent enough to get past Strahd's resistance to resistance negation.

It abso-*******-lutely is hard to equate, given Constitution in D&D gives resistance to things like Death Manip and Soul Manip. Much like in a case like, say, Anima, we wouldn't arbitrarily hand out Gnosis values to everyone, we can't just say "eh I think this person has good enough Constitution".

If Warhammer Magic, DND Magic and Fate Magic are all considered the same through verse equalization, I feel like verse equalizing the Constitution stat from Dungeons and Dragons is not that unreasonable.

Constitution seems to be something akin to stamina. It's described using words like "Fortitute" and "Endurance", and the DND 5e description of the stat heavily supports this. Not only does it say it measures things like stamina, it also has the following uses according to the PHB: Holding your breath, marching for hours without rest, going without sleep, survive without food or water or drinking large amounts of alcohol. Considering it's also your ability to take hits, it seems fairly consistent.

Gunvolt has considerable stamina. Not only has he survived heat that would dehydrate a normal human in minutes completely unaffected, he also should be in the same ballpark as Blade, who under Berserk Trigger was hunting Copen for possibly days with such an insane obsession I seriously doubt she stopped for rest or meals and even when she was snapped out of her mind control, she was capable of fighting off characters close to her level at most a few hours later.

I mean. It's just an option he has, I suppose? I'm not saying it's like his go-to ability, I feel I've already documented those decently up above. I'm saying that if all else fails, Wish your problems away for instant results.

Strahd only has Limited Wish, which is much more, well, limited. It basically can just replicate spells he dosn't know (Spells getting weaker the farther they get from wizard and sorcerer), remove harmful effects on him (Which Gunvolt dosn't have), and produce an effect on the same level.

While "Effect on the same level" is very open ended, I seriously doubt whoever the DM of versus debating is will let Strahd negate Tarrasque immortality with a 7th level spell.

Enervation being dodgeable does not guarantee they will manage to do so. I've also forgotten about a couple other soul-oriented abilities, like the fell-draining lightning (which may have interesting implications here, given homeboy is immune to lightning and yet not the soul drain that comes with this particular jolt). Either way, "dodge lmao" is not a good argument, particularly not when people significantly weaker than Strahd have fairly great feats of anti-aimdodge defense. As mentioned now multiple times, Prevasion means nothing here.

Gunvolt's soul can regenerate from complete destruction (That's literally what Mid-Godly is), so Strahd can kill and absorb it all he wants, it's not gonna stop Gunvolt at all.

...in what way would him being Sealed in, say, some random crypt, be beneficial?

I seem to have misinterpreted the ability. However, the spell states that the area in question needs to have a defined boarder. Having looked at some of what DND considers "Borders", Strahd's only real option seemingly would be to seal Gunvolt in Barovia. Someplace that Strahd can never leave. Can you see how this may be ineffective BFR?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

That... doesn't matter. If he doesn't have feats of overcoming resistance to resistance negation, the extent of the damage resisted by other characters is immaterial. This is hardly a major point, since Gunvolt is going to be damaging Strahd regardless and this merely lessens the blow, but still.

They aren't, though, lol. Warhammer magic is Aethyr Manipulation, D&D magic is a mixture of Reality Warping and Subjective Reality, and I have no godly idea what Fate manip is. If the mechanics are specific, then they don't get equalized. You don't get to give your verse all of the resistances possessed by D&D characters arbitrarily by saying "I feel they have enough Constitution despite this not being an ability in their verse". So no. Absolutely not. This isn't even an argument, you are actively trying to give the character abilities they objectively don't have.

...? Enervation is soul-based, sure, but that's not what kills you about it. What kills you is the statistics it is affecting that are getting reduced to 0 (thus, dead, since you can't function while, say, brain-dead). Like your body may well be alive, but it is incapable of functioning.

Absolutely not lol. Like I said, some random crypt suffices. He isn't restricted to just saying "Barovia", as the spell states it merely has to have a defined border.

 

[The_Smashor]

You don't get to give your verse all of the resistances possessed by D&D characters arbitrarily by saying "I feel they have enough Constitution despite this not being an ability in their verse". So no. Absolutely not. This isn't even an argument, you are actively trying to give the character abilities they objectively don't have.

By your logic, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma are concepts exclusive to Dungeons and Dragons.

Constitution is an actual thing that exists in the real world. It's defined as: "the physical makeup of the individual especially with respect to the health, strength, and appearance of the body"

 

[Mr. Bambu]

By my logic you can't just arbitrarily copy in-verse abilities. Constitution in the real world doesn't grant me resistance to Soul Manipulation. The phrase as it is in the real world does not reflect how it is used mechanically in D&D.

Nice, by the way.

 

[Smashtwig]

Hm, so from what I'm gathering, verse = doesn't work for DnD stats? Constitution just gets converted into the bajillion resistances the character has?

Also I just realized it Bambu and I haven't seen you in a bit since FCOC wassup g

 

[The_Smashor]

By my logic you can't just arbitrarily copy in-verse abilities. Constitution in the real world doesn't grant me resistance to Soul Manipulation. The phrase as it is in the real world does not reflect how it is used mechanically in D&D.

Nice, by the way.

Well, do any of Strahd's spells that force con saves actually threaten Gunvolt all that much?

Also, thanks, my character in Curse of Strahd is actually an Atrificer.

 

[deonment]

question, how does touching people with elemental intangibility let you touch literal electrons which is what prevasion is?

 

[Antoniofer]

Stradh's spells: touch of fatigue, chill touch, blindness/deafness, ray of exhaustion and cloudkill are the ones that force a Con save.

 

[The_Smashor]

Stradh's spells: touch of fatigue, chill touch, blindness/deafness, ray of exhaustion and cloudkill are the ones that force a Con save.

• Touch of Fatigue only makes Gunvolt fatigued, and only lasts at most 54 seconds if Strahd channels his literal strongest magic into the spell, plus it specifically can be dodged or blocked with sufficient armor.
• Chill Touch isn't all that threatening in either it's 3.5e or 5e versions, and still can be dodged
• Blindness/Deafness is an actual threat (Espesially since it was permanent in 3.5e, who thought that was a good idea?), but Gunvolt does have Joule to "see" or "hear" for him, and it can be argued that Mid-Godly regen could negate it, and also Joule's causality stuff means Strahd can't take much advantage of it.
• Ray of Exhaustion can be really bad for Gunvolt, since it just immediately exhausts him, but once again it can be dodged and once again Joule's causality manipulation can undo it.
• Since Gunvolt is as strong as Strahd, Cloudkill would only reduce his constitution, which according to Bambu he dosn't even have to begin with so it literally does nothing.

So yeah, the constitution spells don't matter much because Joule can just hit the undo button.

By the way, would Strahd have a chance at all with speed unequalized? For the sake of the list, of course.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well, do any of Strahd's spells that force con saves actually threaten Gunvolt all that much?

Also, thanks, my character in Curse of Strahd is actually an Atrificer.

I don't think any of the ones that are my significant win-cons do, no. I still would rather avoid the misconceptions you've spread here, though, that Constitution in the real world somehow gives resistance to all the things Constitution as a statistic in D&D gives resistance to.

I mean, again, don't care about the list, but Strahd objectively shouldn't be there. It should be one of the abstracts, like your standard Pit Fiend, or maybe a Vestige like Kas the Bloody Handed.

 

[The_Smashor]

I see.

Honestly the thread isn't the most organized in the world. I should know, I made it.

 

[The_Smashor]

Bump