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From what I can tell, it was written before even the first LN volume was out, so I don't think it'd be comparable to the Bonus Volume. Still though, I can see where you're coming from.
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Ainz Ooal Gown City Level Downgrades (Part 2 - Electric Boogaloo)
- Thread starter InfiniteSped
- Start date
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Cure Elim's kill radius is 250km+, I think if PDL's effective range was only a couple of kilometers then even he should be ranked low among the dragons, espceially with their teleport blocking type spell.AguilaR101 said:
[A thin, membranous substance expanded and seemed to cover the entire mountain. It was massive, and looked to have an area measured in the kilometers.]
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You might be right but we still have to look at the heat and power?
- Decide how hot the weakest 9th tier spell [Nuclear Blast] is, sait to consume 'space'
- Decide how hot [Vermilion Nova] is which is more powerful in the same tier
- Decide PDL's nuke yield and scale the list above and apply it to durability?
- Decide how hot the weakest 9th tier spell [Nuclear Blast] is, sait to consume 'space'
- Decide how hot [Vermilion Nova] is which is more powerful in the same tier
- Decide PDL's nuke yield and scale the list above and apply it to durability?
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Anyway, since true dragons can use Wild Magic spells with comparable or greater range and power to Ainz's super-tier spells, you can hardly call Creation's feat an outlier. Cure can steal souls from a 250km+ range, PDL can deal much more damage with his wild magic than Ainz's Fallen Down along with having a far greater range, and Ainz is supposed to be not much weaker than Cure.
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Soulbreaker Breath proves that Wild Magic can be >>>>>> Super Tier and equal to WCIs, so scaling PDL's ultimate attack to Ainz seems flawed to me, assuming that feat is even canon in the first place.
Wild Magic soul rip and the nuke spell are very different, don't see why you'd scale the range.
Wild Magic soul rip and the nuke spell are very different, don't see why you'd scale the range.
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Anyway, I'm tired of this discussion at this point, so it's whatever to me.
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From what I could tell, there is no AP feat that would be close to the >50 megaton yield of the lake freezing feat, unless context suggests that this feat:
[This was an ultimate explosion. It stained the world with a blinding white flash. There was a thunderous roar and an eruption of heat. The shockwave it generated blew the land away and the rising dirt and sand formed a mushroom cloud in the air. The lethal area of the superheated pulse was measured in kilometers, and there was no trace of movement within it. As the dust and smoke dispersed, the horrific conditions within were made clear.]
was pretty casual the lake freezing thing might just be an outlier as this one peaks at 800 Kilotons if the description is to be trusted.
[This was an ultimate explosion. It stained the world with a blinding white flash. There was a thunderous roar and an eruption of heat. The shockwave it generated blew the land away and the rising dirt and sand formed a mushroom cloud in the air. The lethal area of the superheated pulse was measured in kilometers, and there was no trace of movement within it. As the dust and smoke dispersed, the horrific conditions within were made clear.]
was pretty casual the lake freezing thing might just be an outlier as this one peaks at 800 Kilotons if the description is to be trusted.
Apeironaxim
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They were thick rainclouds which cast a shadow over the entire village.
However, the strangest feature was that there were no rainclouds apart from the dark clouds covering the village. Simply put, it was as if someone had called out the clouds and placed it above the village. Furthermore, another strange feature appeared.
Whilst the clouds swirled with the village at the epicenter, they also expanded in range at a constant rate. It was as if the sandwiched sky was being invaded by the terrible momentum of the ominous dark clouds.
The dark clouds completely covered the sky, and blue sky could still be seen in the far distance. It was as if the dark clouds were targeting this village. From there, a clamour arose in the village center. The wind carried over a high-pitched sound produced by the lizardmen's vocal chords.
According to the storm calc page would this not be Low 7-B?
However, the strangest feature was that there were no rainclouds apart from the dark clouds covering the village. Simply put, it was as if someone had called out the clouds and placed it above the village. Furthermore, another strange feature appeared.
Whilst the clouds swirled with the village at the epicenter, they also expanded in range at a constant rate. It was as if the sandwiched sky was being invaded by the terrible momentum of the ominous dark clouds.
The dark clouds completely covered the sky, and blue sky could still be seen in the far distance. It was as if the dark clouds were targeting this village. From there, a clamour arose in the village center. The wind carried over a high-pitched sound produced by the lizardmen's vocal chords.
According to the storm calc page would this not be Low 7-B?
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In the anime the storm does look pretty masive.
If someone is able to calc this it might give some good results.
If someone is able to calc this it might give some good results.
Apeironaxim
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Heck, I'm pretty sure just the description of covering most of the sky is enough for Low 7-B
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This is one scene from the anime that shows the storm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SuqiV2KcWk&t=20m55s
And this is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bApGhJxKmrw&t=15m11s
These weather changes were made by a 6th tier spell called Control Weather.
'"...You might not believe me if I say this, but please listen to me. I originally thought that the weather changes from before were the result of the fourth tier spell ÒÇîControl CloudsÒÇì, but I was wrong. ÒÇîControl CloudsÒÇì can control clouds, but it cannot generate cold winds like this. Therefore… this isn't just controlling clouds, but altering the weather. In other words, I think the enemy used a sixth tier spell… ÒÇîControl WeatherÒÇì."
And this is another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bApGhJxKmrw&t=15m11s
These weather changes were made by a 6th tier spell called Control Weather.
'"...You might not believe me if I say this, but please listen to me. I originally thought that the weather changes from before were the result of the fourth tier spell ÒÇîControl CloudsÒÇì, but I was wrong. ÒÇîControl CloudsÒÇì can control clouds, but it cannot generate cold winds like this. Therefore… this isn't just controlling clouds, but altering the weather. In other words, I think the enemy used a sixth tier spell… ÒÇîControl WeatherÒÇì."
Apeironaxim
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I would assume Ainz, since Yuri is a fighter with like, no spells, and Lupus is a cleric
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Crater was probably just added for a more realistic adaptation? I mean, Ainz's level 60 physical nullification blocks anything below crater (unknown size) level physical attacks.
Also Range =/= Power
At-least when it comes to Yggdrasil magic. For example [Nuclear Blast] is weaker than [Vermillion Nova], both in the same tier, one has a range of hundreds of meters+ while the other is just a pillar of flame engulfing the target.
Also Range =/= Power
At-least when it comes to Yggdrasil magic. For example [Nuclear Blast] is weaker than [Vermillion Nova], both in the same tier, one has a range of hundreds of meters+ while the other is just a pillar of flame engulfing the target.
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I honestly think a lot of the mess in feats comes from how we treat feats vs. how Overlord treats its feats; I.E. stuff we'd calc as stupid powerful here are stupid weak in-verse and vice versa.
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Thats is true and it doesnt help that overlord has very few feats to begin with.
That storm feats do look pretty impressive though, if they can be calced they will likely give some pretty good results.
That storm feats do look pretty impressive though, if they can be calced they will likely give some pretty good results.
Apeironaxim
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If we do come to the conclusion Creation shouldn't be used for AP, at the very least Ainz and Co will have Low 7-B
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Control weather is just a 6th tier spell so if it actualy is Low 7-B it might support the 7-B rating.
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["Ahh, yes. For example, there are spells like ÒÇîPerfect IllusionÒÇì which can defy all five senses. And beyond that, there are those who have refined their illusions to the utmost limit, who can use a certain skill once every few days to deceive the world itself."
An illusion that could deceive a world was beyond her capacity to imagine.
"Ah, how exactly does that worldly illusion work?"
"From what I know, it's a spell that lets you rewrite any aspect of the world, I think. Well, simply put, using an illusion like that could even bring the dead back to life?"
"Eh!? You're talking about an illusion, right?"
"Oh yes. An illusion which tricks the world — the ultimate secret of illusions. By deceiving the world itself, an illusion can be made real."] - Volume 12 chapter 3
An illusion that could deceive a world was beyond her capacity to imagine.
"Ah, how exactly does that worldly illusion work?"
"From what I know, it's a spell that lets you rewrite any aspect of the world, I think. Well, simply put, using an illusion like that could even bring the dead back to life?"
"Eh!? You're talking about an illusion, right?"
"Oh yes. An illusion which tricks the world — the ultimate secret of illusions. By deceiving the world itself, an illusion can be made real."] - Volume 12 chapter 3
Apeironaxim
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Not sure if I'm missing something, but how does this contribute to the current discussion?
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Well, wasn't the scale of super tier/Yggdrasil magic being compared to wild magic? Isn't most of the discussion here about range? I just pasted what Ainz said.
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As Muchacho commented above, Tsar's ultimate wild magic and name is like the symbolic manifestation of the Tsar Bomba. The hypothetical battle between Tsar and Shalltear which the author published cannot be considered canon (yet), but Maruyama doesn't release Overlord stuff without making sense to the Overlord universe. The overlord bonus volume released this year is a great example of that.
The fact that Ainz can defeat/greatly harm enemies of that level (Cure Elim/Elder Coffin Dragon Lord), proves that he and the guardians are on the same tier as Tsar's Wild magic. In the bonus volume, it's mentioned that the six remaining true dragon lords each has a special wild magic ability. Tsar, PDL, is a great explosion. The author hasn't changed the rules and magic of the Overlord LN universe in the bonus volume. Only the events has changed (Ainz travelled alone instead of with Nazarick, which affected the story, but not the mechanics of magic in the story).
I vote against downgrade.
The fact that Ainz can defeat/greatly harm enemies of that level (Cure Elim/Elder Coffin Dragon Lord), proves that he and the guardians are on the same tier as Tsar's Wild magic. In the bonus volume, it's mentioned that the six remaining true dragon lords each has a special wild magic ability. Tsar, PDL, is a great explosion. The author hasn't changed the rules and magic of the Overlord LN universe in the bonus volume. Only the events has changed (Ainz travelled alone instead of with Nazarick, which affected the story, but not the mechanics of magic in the story).
I vote against downgrade.
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We're about to make an upgrade thread this is pretty much dead, head over to the general disscussion!
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I agree to downgrade, the only spells with high area are those that do not directly destroy things, Creation, Cure Elim death attack, they all have a gimmick like that, changing environment a bit or killing massive amount of living beings and nothing else.
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Mate this is dead, theres currently an upgrade thread that would move ainz and co up to 6-c again
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This thread should be closed since it was rejected
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This was rejected?
I thought it kind of just peetered out in lieu of upgrade threads being thrown up.
I thought it kind of just peetered out in lieu of upgrade threads being thrown up.
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Well like three people agreed with it that plus the heavy contention and the lack of responses for quite some time, with an upgrade thread currently in the works I assumed this was dead.
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VotesThe pen or the sword said:
Against:11 yobo, one below, apeironaxim, pen or sword, fdrybob, kirby, emperor, deathnoodles, Arkeious, darkwraths, dragonpentling
For:5 infinitesped, bigboi, paul, abdiel, dragoo
I mean, yeah, more people were against it, although we don't really run by majority when it comes to CRTs.
I did try to contact admins who were part of the previous debate and they either declined, didn't take a side here, or didn't respond.
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Well this sucks.
All i can do now is hope they show an actual country busting feat in future volumes so that we can finally shut up the dow- i mean againsters.....
All i can do now is hope they show an actual country busting feat in future volumes so that we can finally shut up the dow- i mean againsters.....
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I doubt they'll bust a continent themselves saying that the author very well could write another scene like the cloud clearing where the energy to accomplish said feat would require country busting power. Humorously we now have a upgrade and downgrade thread at the same time... current theory is they'll both be accepted and cancel each other out resulting in zero tier changes...
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He does sort of have a point on [Creation] But well changing the environment to your advantage should scale to AP, creating lava plains, water or possibly thunderstorms. We don't really have a statement on it not being combat applicable or it's power, only thing he marvelled at was it range.
Going forward I think the author will be more clear on this, Keeno's country or it might have been in the settings all this time but there is [Lifestyle Magic] that isn't combat applicable but then the author went through the effort to state [Destruction Water] didn't belong in that category and was combat applicable. Oh right, the water in the basin as well as what splashed out of it was erased rather than vaporization? Seems like subatomic destruction which would probably give more results than it should for a tier 1 spell, please don't quote me on that
Going forward I think the author will be more clear on this, Keeno's country or it might have been in the settings all this time but there is [Lifestyle Magic] that isn't combat applicable but then the author went through the effort to state [Destruction Water] didn't belong in that category and was combat applicable. Oh right, the water in the basin as well as what splashed out of it was erased rather than vaporization? Seems like subatomic destruction which would probably give more results than it should for a tier 1 spell, please don't quote me on that
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Except he does it with a spell that specifically doesn't scale to other spells in his arsenal, with him mentioning that it even goes overboard. And "we don't have a statement that it's not something" is a slap in the pace to burden of proof.
If he uses a spell that he finds the effects of extremely high, it's a special spell beyond the others and it doesn't use his personal energy and it cannot harm anything on the tier it is put at then there is no reason to consider it anything but Enviremental Damage.
And keeping a wrong rating because the author might make something on this level in the future is just not how things are done.
And that is blatantly erasure of water, not destroying each and every single subatom of it with energy.
If he uses a spell that he finds the effects of extremely high, it's a special spell beyond the others and it doesn't use his personal energy and it cannot harm anything on the tier it is put at then there is no reason to consider it anything but Enviremental Damage.
And keeping a wrong rating because the author might make something on this level in the future is just not how things are done.
And that is blatantly erasure of water, not destroying each and every single subatom of it with energy.
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Hmm, you say it doesn't scale to anyting in his arsenal when there are other feats that scale above it. He mentioned it's range of effect, going 'overboard' he put in the same category as super tier, so my first statement is not wrong.
In YGGDRASIL the spell effect could cover an 'Area', but how big would an 'Area' be in this world? Ainz wanted to find out. If it could cover an entire plain, that would be too big. Similarly, freezing the entire lake was going overboard. Care should be taken when using Super-tier magic
Doesn't really say 'care should be taken when using [Creation] does it for something far above him...Well anyways I wasn't advocating using disproven feats as a base, I was pointing out how things might be clearer in the future.
Also the water part, I did say don't quote me on that but checking this page I see this:
Existence Erasure: is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind.
In YGGDRASIL the spell effect could cover an 'Area', but how big would an 'Area' be in this world? Ainz wanted to find out. If it could cover an entire plain, that would be too big. Similarly, freezing the entire lake was going overboard. Care should be taken when using Super-tier magic
Doesn't really say 'care should be taken when using [Creation] does it for something far above him...Well anyways I wasn't advocating using disproven feats as a base, I was pointing out how things might be clearer in the future.
Also the water part, I did say don't quote me on that but checking this page I see this:
Existence Erasure: is the simple power to remove something from existence, leaving nothing behind, a level of destruction beyond incineration, vaporization, and atomization. Rather than just reducing something to its constituent parts, this ability leaves absolutely nothing behind.
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