Ainz Ooal Gown City Level Downgrades (Part 2 - Electric Boogaloo)

[Moritzva]

Alright, let me ask this-

What are, in simple terms, the suggestions/changes proposed by either side?

This thread has gone on for a while, and things have been muddled.

What tier do we plan on downgrading them to?

 

[Hit_The_Badass]

Country level Ainz!

 

[FDrybob]

I'm not sure that many people remember. I sure don't. This thread was dead for a while, then we had an upgrade thread, and now this thread revived.

 

[Antvasima]

Can somebody remind us what needs to be done here with a summary?

 

[OpMasada]

From the looks of it, OP: City level feat is inconsistent with other feats, so possible downgrade to multi-city block level

Those against: There are no inconsistencies.

Can anyone link me the upgrade thread?

 

[DeathNoodles]

Can anyone link me the upgrade thread?

Upgrade thread

The upgrade is based on accepted calculations by the way.

 

[Antvasima]

That isn't a very informative summary.

 

[Moritzva]

Now, I'd like to point this out- The OP didn't exactly suggest a tier for Overlord to be downgraded to, nor evidence and an argument for it. So, if there is no actual option presented besides City Level for a downgrade, there is only argument at all for City Level Ainz, and Island Level Ainz, no?

So I think this is decisively in favor of keeping things City Level, and to take this to the upgrade thread. It's impossible to downgrade a verse without an argument of what to downgrade it to.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So should I close this thread then?

 

[InfiniteSped]

I did propose an 8A due to nuclear blast.

Or just 8C by scaling from the Lich

 

[Moritzva]

Scaling to Lich seems outright absurd.

The nuclear blast was never used, to my knowledge, so that's purely speculation.

This should be closed.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Nuclear Blast was used in volume 13 to blow away the buildings around him.

 

[Heavens_Feel]

I agree with the downgrade, but to what needs to be determined.

 

[Moritzva]

Nuclear Blast was used in volume 13 to blow away the buildings around him.

I must of missed it.

Even then, Nuclear Blast is regarded as a weaker/low-end spell compared to other 9th Levels. To use a weaker, low end spell as the high end for the entire verse is downright strange.

I firmly disagree with this downgrade. 8-A Overlord is far more absurd for a verse with Tier 6 and 7 feats than any Tier 7 Overlord.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Only actual quantifiable combat spell, at least for an estimate. I'd take it over moving clouds and freezing water, but I don't even care at this point.

 

[Moritzva]

Only actual quantifiable combat spell, at least for an estimate. I'd take it over moving clouds and freezing water, but I don't even care at this point.

Moving clouds is a popular feat for a reason. Not many people attack each other by tossing clouds at eachother- it's still calcable ans acceptable.

7-B Overlord should stay. A verse with plenty of Tier 7 and 6 feats should most certainly not go to Tier 8- I agree with Tier 6 Overlord far more than this.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Yeah, I'm sure those islands shake in fear when they see the clouds coming.

 

[Heavens_Feel]

Moving clouds is a "popular feat" because it inflates statistics and peoples favourite verses. It gets you laughed at in any other versus battleboards (for good reason)

@infinitesped did you drop Overlord or something? Or just don't care to pursue this thread further

@Moritva that is largely irrelevent. I don't care what tier the feats are if they're not applicable to AP then ditto.

 

[Moritzva]

Yeah, I'm sure those islands shake in fear when they see the clouds coming.

Cloud feats can be absurd. Don't diss the clouds, man.

The point is; we have far, far more feats and support for Tiers 7-6 than Tier 8, and taking the low-end for a verse such as Overlord with so few feats is just darn sad.

We are not scaling to Lich.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Pretty sure OBD, the granddaddy of batrleboards, started cloud feats being a thing so about it getting you laughed out of other battle boards...

 

[InfiniteSped]

Yeah, I'm sure those islands shake in fear when they see the clouds coming.

Cloud feats can be absurd. Don't diss the clouds, man.
The point is; we have far, far more feats and support for Tiers 7-6 than Tier 8, and taking the low-end for a verse such as Overlord with so few feats is just darn sad.

We are not scaling to Lich.

Yes, very absurd. Glad you agree . . .

 

[Heavens_Feel]

@cal I don't know what you're basing your information off of but im telling you for a fact right now, OBD despises the cloud shit. especially the moving cloud shit.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Huh. Alright then. I'll give you that then. I humbly and unironically apologize.

 

[Moritzva]

Okay.

Actually, I'm going to ignore if OBD gives a shit about clouds.

Because we're not OBD and we don't rate tiers based on publicity and how well we're seem.

If you want to re-evaluate cloud feats, make a thread for them. It is an accepted rule that cloud feats can and will be used. I may not be a huge fan, but they are there. If you wish to change that, make a thread. Not here.

Until then, any argument that relies on dismissing cloud feats via being cloud feats is downright not acceptable for an official CRT.

 

[Moritzva]

Cloud feats can be absurd. Don't diss the clouds, man.
The point is; we have far, far more feats and support for Tiers 7-6 than Tier 8, and taking the low-end for a verse such as Overlord with so few feats is just darn sad.

We are not scaling to Lich.

Yes, very absurd. Glad you agree . . .

Making vague comments isn't an argument. If you dislike cloud feats, make a CRT. In fact, it'll likely be bigger than a CRT. But until you get cloud feats tossed out the window site-wide, there is no downgrade to be had.

 

[Antvasima]

I am also very uneasy with scaling AP from making rain or moving clouds, but other staff members seem to disagree with me.

 

[Heavens_Feel]

it's as if the ability itself has no correlation to how powerful a move can be. Kind of a massive oversight especially considering this is Overlord's mechanics.

Also Ignoring the obvious fact that the author doesn't intend for this to be a application of power or strength, literally because it's stated to be non combative and actual combat spells are a few thousand times weaker. cough outlier.

I don't need to make a crt for the cloud wank, It's debunkable enough with thorough knowledge of overlords mechanics, and other things.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I will unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can send me a message later if you need my help.

 

[Moritzva]

I am also very uneasy with scaling AP from making rain or moving clouds, but other staff members seem to disagree with me.

I'm going to be honest- if not for my general lack of experience with calcing and feats, I would be all for supporting a large-scale changing of cloud feats.

But, until then? When feats are made, and those feats are valid, we use them. This feat is a cloud feat. Make cloud feats invalid and we have a case.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

So an issue with the cloud feats, should they not also fall under environmental destruction just like Creation due to being specifically for changing the weather?

 

[Moritzva]

it's as if the ability itself has no correlation to how powerful a move can be. Kind of a massive oversight especially considering this is Overlord's mechanics.

Could you describe Overlord's mechanics and how the effects/ability of a spell don't reflect how powerful a spell's effects/abilities are? Since that seems quite odd, to simply assume non-combat spells are stronger than combat spells in potency, and that the effects of a spell do not determine how strong a spell is.

Also Ignoring the obvious fact that the author doesn't intend for this to be a application of power or strength, literally because it's stated to be non combative and actual combat spells are a few thousand times weaker. cough outlier.

Obvious fact? I'd like proof on the author obviously intending it to not be a show of Ainz's strength in any way.

I don't need to make a crt for the cloud wank, It's debunkable enough with thorough knowledge of overlords mechanics, and other things.

Then do it. List 'other things' and make a thread tossing cloud feats in the dust. I really want you to do it- I don't like cloud feats. So do it, please.

 

[Heavens_Feel]

I will also point out, that overlord is not your typical dragon ball naruto shonen that has linear power levels, each spell has their own level of power and that does not change from user to user.

for example, Ainz using a 3rd tier fodder spell is no stronger then some human who also used the same spell. What the important of this you ask? it's that each spell has a independent level of strength regardless of the user and regardless of other spells. Meaning you can't say the cloud feat is city level, then everything else is also city level.

Truthfully overlord doesn't really work well at all with the vsb rating system.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Spells do get stronger depending on the caster though. Fluder's fireball was way stronger than normal ones, for example.

 

[Moritzva]

So an issue with the cloud feats, should they not also fall under environmental destruction just like Creation due to being specifically for changing the weather?

Overlord is an odd verse. For one, you have Ainz performing elaborate and extravagant non-combat feats simply to show off how damn awesome and powerful he is, all while using a fraction of his power. Really, we've never seen Ainz fight a battle dead seriously- never have we seen him utilize The Staff of Ainz Ooal Gown, even against Shalltear.

As well, Overlord is a verse that critically lacks feats as a whole. There's just... not much, with how casually Ainz does basically everything.

Given how Ainz uses a lot of these spells to show off how incredible he is, and how much he can do, alongside there being multiple of these 'outliers', and how the verse lacks feats? I support no downgrade, whatsoever.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

In Ainz vs Shalltear, her MR which negs low tier spells couldn't neg a Level 1 spell from Ainz due to his ability as a caster. Clearly the better you are as a Caster, the stronger your spells are in comparison to fodder.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Ainz used the staff in the Bonus Volume

 

[Moritzva]

Ainz used the staff in the Bonus Volume

In a bonus volume, yes.

I never understood why he didn't smite Shalltear with it.

 

[InfiniteSped]

Too dangerous to bring it out of the base.

 

[Moritzva]

Too dangerous to bring it out of the base.

I'd argue that the possibility of Ainz dying, which he recognized, would be even more dangerous.

...but then again, Ainz cares more about the guild than himself, so fair enough.

 

[InfiniteSped]

He wanted to prove himself and all that, he even took off the resurrection ring. He could have just ganged up on her with a ton of NPCs and Mercenaries if winning was the only thing in mind.