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Acnologia vs Ainz
- Thread starter Raito_Utopia
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@Akr a lot of your post is either agreeing with with me or answering the questions I asked.
"So it's in character for Ainz to use TGOALID if nothing else works?"
Yes.
Nothing wrong I just asked a question and you answered.
" I don't think you're interpreting SBA correctly. This is not a fight to the death. It says that if a character has to, they will kill."
If an enemy is strong enough to be on his level, he almost always goes to kill them period. Immediately tries to kill.
I didn't say what Ainz wouldn't or would do that all I did in that specific part was restate a part of SBA.
"My argument was that if Ainz wouldn't fight someone that ignores all of his attacks and becomes stronger by eating them, instead of revealing his trump card."
Except he wouldn't. Ainz would teleport away, apply a crap ton of buffs, come back, and The Goal of All Life is Death his ass.
Again I don't know what I said was wrong here. I specifically say IF he wouldn't so I'm implying he wouldn't do that and you agree with me by saying he wouldn't so I don't know why you put an except when what you said was the same as what I said.
"fighting someone who could ignore immunity to death magic."
Citation please. Magic resistance does not equate to Death Manipulation.
Right before this I say that Acno would become stronger and learn his magics by eating Ainz's normal magics and that Ainz does not know if Acno would be able to eat Ainz's TGOALID and learn that ability which is where the part you qouted comes from.
"How the fight would go in this scenario is Acno BFRs Ainz to the human world, "
Would never happen since Ainz would never let Acnologia get a hit in since he's a dragon; Dragons in Yggdrassil, even ones the size of small rooms, can be anywhere between level 90 to max level. Because Acnologia is a large dragon, he'd immediately take him seriously.
Acno doesn't need to hit Ainz to BFR him, his BFR is ranged and isn't dodgeable.
"Ainz teleports somewhere else to learn about Acno and Acno wins since Ainz left"
That's not how that works dude. BFR only works in a specific amount of time; here I'll even quote it from the SBA Page. "removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR)", so Ainz teleporting away for like 2 days will not make him lose at all.
Again I'm not sure if I made this clear enough but multiple times I put an IF and I was using that to imply that I don't know what Ainz would or how long he would be gone in character.
"If it is in his nature to blindly throw all of his attacks at an enemy that would visibly make the enemy stronger and then throw his ultimate move at the enemy ignoring that he doesn't know if this will also make the enemy stronger, then yeah Ainz would win this."
Your argument is completely banking on the fact that Ainz teleporting away = instant loss when it isn't. Ainz can literally spend 3 days preparing far away from Acnologia and come back and he'd still won't BFR-Lose. Also, he doesn't need to use his ultimate move as Acnologia doesn't resist any of Ainz's other Death Manipulation spells. Magic Resistance =/= Death Resistance.
See above for why I wouldn't know it only takes Ainz 3 days to prepare for unknown enemies. Again I didn't say it was Acno's BFR for why Ainz would lose but that Ainz himself would leave and learn more about the enemy. He would need to use his ultimate move as TGOALID is the only spell that ignores immunity to death magic. You said it yourself Death Manipulation "Spells". Acno would completely be able to ignore any normal death manip spells as he is immune to magic. If you argue that is NLF, not only is there Death Magic in Fairy Tail but Zeref is a genius with it and he still doesn't think he can beat Acno in a fight. If any of Zeref's attacks could just kill Acno on touch then Zeref wouldn't have spent years making an army to fight him.
"So it's in character for Ainz to use TGOALID if nothing else works?"
Yes.
Nothing wrong I just asked a question and you answered.
" I don't think you're interpreting SBA correctly. This is not a fight to the death. It says that if a character has to, they will kill."
If an enemy is strong enough to be on his level, he almost always goes to kill them period. Immediately tries to kill.
I didn't say what Ainz wouldn't or would do that all I did in that specific part was restate a part of SBA.
"My argument was that if Ainz wouldn't fight someone that ignores all of his attacks and becomes stronger by eating them, instead of revealing his trump card."
Except he wouldn't. Ainz would teleport away, apply a crap ton of buffs, come back, and The Goal of All Life is Death his ass.
Again I don't know what I said was wrong here. I specifically say IF he wouldn't so I'm implying he wouldn't do that and you agree with me by saying he wouldn't so I don't know why you put an except when what you said was the same as what I said.
"fighting someone who could ignore immunity to death magic."
Citation please. Magic resistance does not equate to Death Manipulation.
Right before this I say that Acno would become stronger and learn his magics by eating Ainz's normal magics and that Ainz does not know if Acno would be able to eat Ainz's TGOALID and learn that ability which is where the part you qouted comes from.
"How the fight would go in this scenario is Acno BFRs Ainz to the human world, "
Would never happen since Ainz would never let Acnologia get a hit in since he's a dragon; Dragons in Yggdrassil, even ones the size of small rooms, can be anywhere between level 90 to max level. Because Acnologia is a large dragon, he'd immediately take him seriously.
Acno doesn't need to hit Ainz to BFR him, his BFR is ranged and isn't dodgeable.
"Ainz teleports somewhere else to learn about Acno and Acno wins since Ainz left"
That's not how that works dude. BFR only works in a specific amount of time; here I'll even quote it from the SBA Page. "removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR)", so Ainz teleporting away for like 2 days will not make him lose at all.
Again I'm not sure if I made this clear enough but multiple times I put an IF and I was using that to imply that I don't know what Ainz would or how long he would be gone in character.
"If it is in his nature to blindly throw all of his attacks at an enemy that would visibly make the enemy stronger and then throw his ultimate move at the enemy ignoring that he doesn't know if this will also make the enemy stronger, then yeah Ainz would win this."
Your argument is completely banking on the fact that Ainz teleporting away = instant loss when it isn't. Ainz can literally spend 3 days preparing far away from Acnologia and come back and he'd still won't BFR-Lose. Also, he doesn't need to use his ultimate move as Acnologia doesn't resist any of Ainz's other Death Manipulation spells. Magic Resistance =/= Death Resistance.
See above for why I wouldn't know it only takes Ainz 3 days to prepare for unknown enemies. Again I didn't say it was Acno's BFR for why Ainz would lose but that Ainz himself would leave and learn more about the enemy. He would need to use his ultimate move as TGOALID is the only spell that ignores immunity to death magic. You said it yourself Death Manipulation "Spells". Acno would completely be able to ignore any normal death manip spells as he is immune to magic. If you argue that is NLF, not only is there Death Magic in Fairy Tail but Zeref is a genius with it and he still doesn't think he can beat Acno in a fight. If any of Zeref's attacks could just kill Acno on touch then Zeref wouldn't have spent years making an army to fight him.
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@Jugg
I don't know much about Ainz's character and everyone else up to that point was saying he was overly cautious and overestimates his opponents. That was the way I had set up the scenario, if what you're saying is correct and Ainz would try TGOALID on Acno because he's experimental then yeah Ainz would win.
I don't know much about Ainz's character and everyone else up to that point was saying he was overly cautious and overestimates his opponents. That was the way I had set up the scenario, if what you're saying is correct and Ainz would try TGOALID on Acno because he's experimental then yeah Ainz would win.
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@DragonEmperor23
Im too lazy to find a quote from the novels directly rigtht now so I'll quote something from the Overlord Wikipage on his character, its been there for around 2 years now.
"Since Ainz prioritizes knowledge as an utmost importance to him, he also likes to participate in doing random experiments"
But yes Ainz is very experimental and loves to find out how things work. He is still very cautious and not really overestimating per say...hes just way more likely to overestimate rather than underestimate (he hasn't done that once to an opponent). Hes all about information gathering. (An example I remember right now is something pretty strange and kind of funny, he wanted to see if he had brainwashed a priest into believing a different god from the one he worshipped at the time, if he would still have his priestly powers even if he didn't believe in his original god anymore, these type of things happen all the time in battles too, reminds you hes a hardcore gamer at heart still.)
Im too lazy to find a quote from the novels directly rigtht now so I'll quote something from the Overlord Wikipage on his character, its been there for around 2 years now.
"Since Ainz prioritizes knowledge as an utmost importance to him, he also likes to participate in doing random experiments"
But yes Ainz is very experimental and loves to find out how things work. He is still very cautious and not really overestimating per say...hes just way more likely to overestimate rather than underestimate (he hasn't done that once to an opponent). Hes all about information gathering. (An example I remember right now is something pretty strange and kind of funny, he wanted to see if he had brainwashed a priest into believing a different god from the one he worshipped at the time, if he would still have his priestly powers even if he didn't believe in his original god anymore, these type of things happen all the time in battles too, reminds you hes a hardcore gamer at heart still.)
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@Jugger47
So in this situation where Ainz meets a dragon and every spell that he uses on the dragon fails. The dragon even eats the spells and gains the power of those spells that Ainz threw at him. To top it off, when Ainz stops time the dragon isn't effected by it. Would Ainz still use TGOALID or would he think that the dragon might eat that too and gain the power to ignore immunity to death magic and leave the battlefield?
So in this situation where Ainz meets a dragon and every spell that he uses on the dragon fails. The dragon even eats the spells and gains the power of those spells that Ainz threw at him. To top it off, when Ainz stops time the dragon isn't effected by it. Would Ainz still use TGOALID or would he think that the dragon might eat that too and gain the power to ignore immunity to death magic and leave the battlefield?
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@DragonEmperor23
This isn't all that uncommon from the game he played, there were immunities against elemental and death magic all the time in that world.(Just being undead would make a person immune to instant death effects) He would assume that Acno is just immune to those spells and would use the one thing he knows negates immunities/resistances, TGOALID. This is only under SBA Rule: State of mind: In character, but willing to kill.
In complete character Ainz would most defiently not want to kill Acno as he has an Obession with collecting special, and rare people and things. But since SBA dictate the characters are willing to kill, he would relucatantly indeed use TGOALID and kill Acno. Or if Acno was not willing to stop trying to kill Ainz he would also kill him, (without spoiling who/what this happened in the novels, it was very sad)
This isn't all that uncommon from the game he played, there were immunities against elemental and death magic all the time in that world.(Just being undead would make a person immune to instant death effects) He would assume that Acno is just immune to those spells and would use the one thing he knows negates immunities/resistances, TGOALID. This is only under SBA Rule: State of mind: In character, but willing to kill.
In complete character Ainz would most defiently not want to kill Acno as he has an Obession with collecting special, and rare people and things. But since SBA dictate the characters are willing to kill, he would relucatantly indeed use TGOALID and kill Acno. Or if Acno was not willing to stop trying to kill Ainz he would also kill him, (without spoiling who/what this happened in the novels, it was very sad)
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If TGOALID doesn't work, Ainz would determine that Acnologia is a massive threat and is a full on raid-boss level monster and would then go to Nazarick and use all the World Items to destroy Acnologia as that much power is too much to mess around with.
World-Items in the game of Yggdrassil are items that basically say "**** balance" and can basically do anything; that's why it's called World Items. At this point, Acnologia's Magic Resistance is utterly useless since the World items act less like Magic and more like Reality Warpers. Ainz could easily give this World Item to a summon he makes and boom, Acnologia is dead period. This thing makes TGOALID look like a children's toy by how utterly broken it is.
World-Items in the game of Yggdrassil are items that basically say "**** balance" and can basically do anything; that's why it's called World Items. At this point, Acnologia's Magic Resistance is utterly useless since the World items act less like Magic and more like Reality Warpers. Ainz could easily give this World Item to a summon he makes and boom, Acnologia is dead period. This thing makes TGOALID look like a children's toy by how utterly broken it is.
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Alright, so I agree that Ainz would beat Acno easily. The only thing I didn't know was how long Ainz would research him but knowning now that he kills anything that would be a threat like Acno it doesn't matter. Would it be considered easy enough to be a stomp? True, Acno isn't effected by the time stop or the normal magics. But on the other hand there are probably multiple world items that can oneshot Acno. I think it would be a stomp since there isn't a single way Acno can beat Ainz.
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@DragonEmperor23
Well Acno just would have to land a good blow or two and that would be it, but Ainz with greater teleportation is just too much mobility, So sort of a stomp.
So tally is
Acnologia -1
Ainz Ooal Gown - 12(added DragonEmperor23 )
Inconslusive 3
Oh and aren't we past grace period already? The tally was the same just one less Ainz vote, its been over 24 hours by now.
Well Acno just would have to land a good blow or two and that would be it, but Ainz with greater teleportation is just too much mobility, So sort of a stomp.
So tally is
Acnologia -1
Ainz Ooal Gown - 12(added DragonEmperor23 )
Inconslusive 3
Oh and aren't we past grace period already? The tally was the same just one less Ainz vote, its been over 24 hours by now.
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I know Acno could kill him if he hit him, but that would never happen. Speed is equalized so Ainz could just dodge all of his attacks with teleporting.
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This thread continued a lot while I was sleeping, aizenishere I wasnt trying to ignore ainz capabilities to win, I was debating on whether the reasoning given for him to win was valid or even in character as this match is not bloodlusted, and despite what Jugger says I would never think ainz would try something so blatantly dangerous just for experimentation.
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If he need to going into melee how did he overcome Despair Aura?Akreious said:
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There wouldn't be any melee in this match. Human Acno is going to BFR Ainz to the Dragon Acno who usually fights in the sky firing down magic at his opponents.
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Okay. Why there human form pic?
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So he's only dragon form or what?
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Well then my question is the same... how did he'll overcome Despair Aura in melee?
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....Did you even see the shalltear vs Ainz fight in season 1? He went admiting to himself that it would be much safer for his guardians to handle shalltear but he went alone....What did he say?OpMasada said:
(Demiurge and Albedo Arguing when Ainz left to fight Shalltear)
"Why did you let Ainz go!?"-Demiurge
"Lord Ainz said he wanted to defeat shalltear himself"-Albedo
"What!?"-Demiurge
"I felt determination from him"-Albedo
(Ainz Engaging Shalltear)"I'm so stupid, I know there are better ways of handling this.. (END SCENE)"
The two main reasons Ainz did not receive aid from his Gaurdians is because he didn't want to see them fight each other and he wanted to know who would win between them alone. That last part is insanely dangerious experimentation on his part. So not only does his character on the wiki say he likes to experiment but he even has feats, dangerous ones, shalltear was defiently a opponent that could kill Ainz and he knew it.
So yes, case in point, he would most absolutely use TGOALID after witnessing Acno resist his magic. Because as far as his knowledge goes, nothing at all should be able to survive it.
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Seeing the TGoALiD arguments above got me wondering, Zeref gets his death magic from his Curse of Ankhseram (he kept pissing off the death god) which can't kill Acno by his own admission. This same curse also prevents the accursed from dying but Zeref's death magic was able to kill someone else who also had this curse (Mavis) while he wasn't killed by hers. If Zeref is able to kill the unkillable with his death magic but still can't kill Acno, could it not be argued Acno could shrug off even TGoALiD amped death magic?
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>this same curse also prevents the accursed from dying
Nah, it's just give you some variation of immortality.
Nah, it's just give you some variation of immortality.
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@Marad
I just said Dragon Acno doesn't go into melee so despair aura doesn't matter. The pic is Human Acno and the first thing Human Acno does is BFR people out of the ravines. So Dragon Acno would be fighting Ainz. This doesn't change that Ainz wins but Despair Aura is not the reason why that happens.
I just said Dragon Acno doesn't go into melee so despair aura doesn't matter. The pic is Human Acno and the first thing Human Acno does is BFR people out of the ravines. So Dragon Acno would be fighting Ainz. This doesn't change that Ainz wins but Despair Aura is not the reason why that happens.
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The problem isn't who wins, everyone agrees it's Ainz. The problem is that this is a stomp match and those don't get added. Acno's only advantage in this fight is that he hits harder physically. Not only will this not matter because Ainz can use teleport to dodge, but he has an extra life so even if he dies once he will come back and kill Acno. This is a stomp because there is literally no way Acnologia could win this unless Ainz sat down and told Acno to destroy his whole body with a breath attack twice. Again, stomp matches are not added.
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@DragonEmperor23
Eh I don't agree, If Acno has the power to kill which he does and has to make Ainz use his trump card TGOAILD, to kill him, I defiently would not consider this a stomp.
I think the fact that this discussion dragged on for so long only gives more merit to the fact that it wasn't a stomp in the first place.
Eh I don't agree, If Acno has the power to kill which he does and has to make Ainz use his trump card TGOAILD, to kill him, I defiently would not consider this a stomp.
I think the fact that this discussion dragged on for so long only gives more merit to the fact that it wasn't a stomp in the first place.
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That one enemy has the ability to kill the other doesn't make it not a stomp. Then any match with a higher tier vs a lower tier could never be a stomp because the higher tier could kill the lower tier. You have to look at what's actually possible. Could Acno kill Ainz if Acno hit him? Yes Would Acno ever hit Ainz? Absolutely not. It's not even like Ainz only has TGOAILD to kill Acno with, as mentioned above Ainz had a bunch of different world items that could easily one shot Acno whereas Acno has no way to beat Ainz. Ainz doesn't have a singular trump card, he has a whole deck made out of trump cards and Acnologia has nothing. A stomp match is one where it is impossible for an opponent to win in any way and that is exactly what it is. Even if Acno was bloodlusted there still wouldn't be a single thing he could do to Ainz. The only reason this discussion is so long is because some people are either voting for Acno and argueing with others on the mechanics of his powers or because they disagree on what the definition of a stomp is. This is definitely a stomp.
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@DragonEmperor23
I think if IKazi was still here he would still argue that Ainz would lose lol. Point is, its not unanimous that this is a stomp no matter what you or I think. But like I said I don't think it s a stomp at all. Acno is resistant to all the regular spells that ainz would use first and has the stopping power to kill Ainz. He would cause Ainz to either retreat at first or use his trump card.
100% Not a stomp to me in the slightest.
I think if IKazi was still here he would still argue that Ainz would lose lol. Point is, its not unanimous that this is a stomp no matter what you or I think. But like I said I don't think it s a stomp at all. Acno is resistant to all the regular spells that ainz would use first and has the stopping power to kill Ainz. He would cause Ainz to either retreat at first or use his trump card.
100% Not a stomp to me in the slightest.
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@DragonEmperor23
Lol if you think this is a stomp look at the Madara vs Ainz thread.
50 Meters apart, speed equalized, opponent has no resistance that is viable and its instant death, was still accepted. This is far from that.
Lol if you think this is a stomp look at the Madara vs Ainz thread.
50 Meters apart, speed equalized, opponent has no resistance that is viable and its instant death, was still accepted. This is far from that.
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