Acausality type 1 for MCU Dormammu

[Greenshifter]

Ok? If I called you incompetent, don't try and sound all serious and get your panties in a bunch, be an adult and continue addressing the argument. I even put it in red text to let you know I was joking.

Dude just don’t call people incompetent, the red could just be bolding so not exactly clear. If I didn’t know Umineko I wouldn’t even have gotten the “joke”.

For everyone else commenting on the red truth thing: Wouldn’t it being put in red be the exact opposite of a joke?

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah we don't assume that but in the movie we were told that dark dimension exists outside time then their is a reason for it and anyway the assumption you are making is much worse as it has no evidence to back it

Again my assumption is literally “Strange used an ability he has”. You’re still making a bigger assumption since you’re giving a power to explain an event happening, while I’m using a given power to explain it.

 

[azontr]

Dude just don’t call people incompetent, the red could just be bolding so not exactly clear. If I didn’t know Umineko I wouldn’t even have gotten the “joke”.

I don't understand why your taking such offense. After all, whatever is spoken in red is the absolute undeniable truth, so you shouldn't take such offense to the mere truth, even if it is a joke.

 

[azontr]

Again my assumption is literally “Strange used an ability he has”. You’re still making a bigger assumption since you’re giving a power to explain an event happening, while I’m using a given power to explain it.

You seem to be riding the argument that, "my assumption makes more sense than evidence, so it has to be the truth." But yeah, no. That isn't how arguments work. You can't just keep using assumptions instead of providing actual evidence to prove strange used an ability to counter to presented evidence. As per, knox's 8th, it is forbbiden to resolve a case without clues that are presented.

 

[Greenshifter]

Dude if there was actual evidence that contradicted my interpretation I would have conceded a long time ago. The thing is that my interpretation can work perfectly with how the scene plays out + supporting statement and so can yours. I think Rez even agrees with that sentiment that it’s assumption vs assumption rather than direct evidence vs assumption.

 

[Eficiente]

Why the scene clearly explains strange is actually not forgetting the pain from his previous deaths and suffering

As said before subconscious trauma is what we don't know if it's kept, we already know he's not forgetting the pain and doing so and keep doing that isn't beyond what a human can do.

 

[azontr]

As said before subconscious trauma is what we don't know if it's kept, we already know he's not forgetting the pain and doing so and keep doing that isn't beyond what a human can do.

Can humans remeber past trauma if time itself is literally reversed? If they can, seems all of humanity is acausal type 1.

 

[Rez]

As said before subconscious trauma is what we don't know if it's kept, we already know he's not forgetting the pain and doing so and keep doing that isn't beyond what a human can do.

I mean in that scene strange literally says he is fine with eternally suffering if that's what it takes to stop Dormammu and Dormammu also implies Strange is keeping his trauma when he says but you will suffer

 

[Rez]

Here is the entirety of dialogue
Dormammu:you cannot do this forever
Strange: actually I can this is how things are now you and me trapped in this moment endlessly
Dormammu:then you will spent eternity dying
Strange:yes but everyone on earth will live
Dormammu:but you will suffer
Strange: Pain's an old friend

 

[Rez]

. I think Rez even agrees with that sentiment that it’s assumption vs assumption rather than direct evidence vs assumption.

I don't dark dimension is outside of time which means even if the bargain thing didn't work the infinite loop would have stopped Dormammu since earth and Dark dimension don't share the same space time
Strange: actually I can this is how things are now you and me trapped in this moment endlessly
Dormammu:then you will spent eternity dying
Strange:yes but everyone on earth will live

 

[Eficiente]

The loop does that unless stopped by Strange, "he's doing it" isn't "wrong" but doesn't give him the agency you're implying he has, otherwise he would have infinite stamina and some high AF resistance to pain.

 

[Dalesean027]

otherwise he would have infinite stamina and some high AF resistance to pain.

Okay and? That would just be the case nothing more and only ofc while he's looping with the literally Time Stone and that's why Supernatural Willpower was suggested

 

[Loyd]

i get what you mean and can see what people would interpret with his supernatural willpower justification tho

 

[Rez]

The loop does that unless stopped by Strange, "he's doing it" isn't "wrong" but doesn't give him the agency you're implying he has, otherwise he would have infinite stamina and some high AF resistance to pain.

Time is being reverted so the stamina part is irrelevant and strange clearly says in the movie that he is experiencing the pain and Dormammu even implys strange is keeping the trauma of each death I already quoted that part above so his supernatural Willpower is justified

 

[Rez]

If you still disagree just remove it I am getting tired of arguing here

 

[Nico-v11]

This is pretty clear cut. Strange experiences death numerous times, so many times in fact that an extra-dimensional being who has lived for millions of years got tired of being looped in time more than Strange dying himself.

If that’s not Supernatural willpower then I don’t know what is. An hour of this would have been like 50+ deaths going by how quickly he dies. I’m sure Dorm definitely lasted quite a while too so simple deduction leaves Strange experiencing MANY deaths.

Strange feels pain, suffers, repeats, and surpasses. This is a heroic moment within the story and that is the implication.

 

[Dalesean027]

This is pretty clear cut. Strange experiences death numerous times, so many times in fact that an extra-dimensional being who has lived for millions of years got tired of being looped in time more than Strange dying himself.

If that’s not Supernatural willpower then I don’t know what is. An hour of this would have been like 50+ deaths going by how quickly he dies. I’m sure Dorm definitely lasted quite a while too so simple deduction leaves Strange experiencing MANY deaths.

Strange feels pain, suffers, repeats, and surpasses. This is a heroic moment within the story and that is the implication.

Literally just this

 

[Antvasima]

@Eficiente

Should I open the Doctor Strange profile page so you can edit it, or have you changed your mind?

Also, isn't it likely that the time gem is what allowed Strange to remember past time loops, rather than it being a quality of himself?

 

[Eficiente]

Yes but to change the wording used, same with Dormammu.

I still believe that Strange shouldn't even have the power and same with Dorm as he just has Extrasensory Per., but I'm done to go over that.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will unlock the two pages. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[Eficiente]

It's done, this thread can be locked.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.