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About Touhou Project Canon
- Thread starter Saikou_The_Lewd_King
- Start date
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- touhou project
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- #42
@Andy Reimu matching Yorihime was with the Spell Card Rules. So it doesn't count towards powerscaling (Skills, yes).
"The other multitudes of doujinshi, anime, games and music videos not handled by ZUN are the second tier canon and should be disregarded unless otherwise stated, and believe me there are a lot of them."
Even if it says to disregard it unless noted, you shouldn't add Fanon in, period, even if it's noted so.
"The other multitudes of doujinshi, anime, games and music videos not handled by ZUN are the second tier canon and should be disregarded unless otherwise stated, and believe me there are a lot of them."
Even if it says to disregard it unless noted, you shouldn't add Fanon in, period, even if it's noted so.
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Touhou 5
Stage 3 Alice: Static BG - probably means no MFTL+ movement speed; fairies (or dolls) can create reflecting barrier that completely protect Lolice. Interesting... Lolice has her own pocket dimension here...
Stage EXTRA: BG looks like we flying through space (probalby Grimoire allows Lolice to get her MFTL+ speed); her bullets became homing ones; overall... all that Grimoire did... make her a little more durable and a lot of faster (both her and especialy her projectiles).
Basicaly nothing notable except that Grimoire boost Lolice speed... Still, I think we should keep Lolice and Alice separated.
Stage 3 Alice: Static BG - probably means no MFTL+ movement speed; fairies (or dolls) can create reflecting barrier that completely protect Lolice. Interesting... Lolice has her own pocket dimension here...
Stage EXTRA: BG looks like we flying through space (probalby Grimoire allows Lolice to get her MFTL+ speed); her bullets became homing ones; overall... all that Grimoire did... make her a little more durable and a lot of faster (both her and especialy her projectiles).
Basicaly nothing notable except that Grimoire boost Lolice speed... Still, I think we should keep Lolice and Alice separated.
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- Thread starter
- #44
Again, Alice scales to the PCs in Stage 3. Even before the fairies comes in she still tanks shots from them, and is able to keep up.
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She is quite frail though. Even with her barriers you kill her five times faster compared to Shinki or her EXTRA. And she is slowpoke during Stage 3 compared to Stage EXTRA.Saikou The Lewd King said:
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- #46
Still not enough to warrant a Key imo.
Being 10 times slower than MFTL+ is sitll MFTL+. Fives times weaker than Solar System is still Solar System.
Being 10 times slower than MFTL+ is sitll MFTL+. Fives times weaker than Solar System is still Solar System.
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I doubt that Solar System Alice is funny... PC-98 Alice is insanely durable compared to Win Alice... And unskilled... And overall ineffective. Well, PC-98 Alice overall stronger but aside her speed... She all Unknown... So I still say... No composite Alice...Saikou The Lewd King said:
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- #48
Unskilled and Ineffective can be blamed on her young age at the time.
Also, Alice's legit only feats in Window is being superior to fodder, and the only two non-spell card major feats in Windows are most likely casual. So you can't say she is more durable than Windows Alice.
Basically, if Lolice do scales to stuff like Moon or Planet back in PC-98, it should affect her current self, since Zun stated they were the same person, and I doubt she weakened over time.
Also, Alice's legit only feats in Window is being superior to fodder, and the only two non-spell card major feats in Windows are most likely casual. So you can't say she is more durable than Windows Alice.
Basically, if Lolice do scales to stuff like Moon or Planet back in PC-98, it should affect her current self, since Zun stated they were the same person, and I doubt she weakened over time.
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So let's see... If we assume that all four characters are not retconned completely...
It means that Marisa's Large Planet level is not outlier.
Reimu is probably has at least Star level AP...
Lolice could be sitting from Planet to Solar System level durability (though her AP is vague as hell since she was unskilled) => Alice Margatroid is durable as TANK and can literaly tank Master Sparks like nothing.
Yuuka should be at least Planet level too...
It means that Marisa's Large Planet level is not outlier.
Reimu is probably has at least Star level AP...
Lolice could be sitting from Planet to Solar System level durability (though her AP is vague as hell since she was unskilled) => Alice Margatroid is durable as TANK and can literaly tank Master Sparks like nothing.
Yuuka should be at least Planet level too...
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I agree to the first point and I agree to renaming it to Touhou Project.
About the idea of fusing PC-98 and Windows era: As you said ZUN wrote they should be ignored like derivative works and contradictions exist.
As such powerscaling any of the PC-98 stats to current ones is already doubtable in general, as ZUN doesn't care for the contradictions between canons, so that powerscaling logic quite possibly isn't consistent between them either way.
Also as the touhou wiki writes PC-98 being canon to the windows era or not is one of the biggest questions and debates in the fanbase.
If the general fanbase can not agree to it, or in other words if it is really that ambiguous, I would not simply go with the interpretation that it is canon. As long as it is ambiguous, which it is given that ZUN just never gave a clear yes on it being canon (which in my opinion also shows that he makes a distinction), it is best to just keep the profiles the most secure state and that is with PC-98 and Windows stats noted separately.
About the idea of fusing PC-98 and Windows era: As you said ZUN wrote they should be ignored like derivative works and contradictions exist.
As such powerscaling any of the PC-98 stats to current ones is already doubtable in general, as ZUN doesn't care for the contradictions between canons, so that powerscaling logic quite possibly isn't consistent between them either way.
Also as the touhou wiki writes PC-98 being canon to the windows era or not is one of the biggest questions and debates in the fanbase.
If the general fanbase can not agree to it, or in other words if it is really that ambiguous, I would not simply go with the interpretation that it is canon. As long as it is ambiguous, which it is given that ZUN just never gave a clear yes on it being canon (which in my opinion also shows that he makes a distinction), it is best to just keep the profiles the most secure state and that is with PC-98 and Windows stats noted separately.
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- #52
Well even if we don't uses the stats, the verse page soutright claims that ZUN said it's an alternate universe, which is downright false (As the closets he has said to that claims you CAN ignore it, but not that you SHOULD)
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- #54
Fixed everything that needed fixing.
Although, since I kinda talked about it and since the main subject seems pretty much done here, the PC-98 Yin Yang orbs were stated to absorbs the user's power to then releases it. Wouldn't that mean that pretty much any feats with it would scales to the user's "normal" attacks?
Although, since I kinda talked about it and since the main subject seems pretty much done here, the PC-98 Yin Yang orbs were stated to absorbs the user's power to then releases it. Wouldn't that mean that pretty much any feats with it would scales to the user's "normal" attacks?
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I don't think the normal functionality of the orb outright releases as much power every shot as when they explode, if that is what you want to say. If it absorbs the users powers and then releases it its like a batterie of sorts and while the batterie can only release a small amount of energy at once normally, when exploding it can release all of it.
For short I doubt Reimu can spam Solar system busters with every shot, such a thing would likely deplete all her energy at once or something.
Edit: Oh, but if the thread is finished I should probably close it before we get to a bunch of other statistics discussion unrelated to the thread again.
For short I doubt Reimu can spam Solar system busters with every shot, such a thing would likely deplete all her energy at once or something.
Edit: Oh, but if the thread is finished I should probably close it before we get to a bunch of other statistics discussion unrelated to the thread again.
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- #56
Well, to be fair the whole point of the games is to spam a billion attacks on the enemy until they are dead, even then they survive. Even if it doesn't scale to her normal attacks, it shouldn't really be limited to simply using the Yin Yang orbs (As Moon to Solar System would be too much of a gap for simply accumulating power over time)
Eh, I guess so, but it would avoid just making tons of different Touhou threads (Since I already made 2 in a short span of time)
Eh, I guess so, but it would avoid just making tons of different Touhou threads (Since I already made 2 in a short span of time)
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Should the Touhou category be renamed Touhou Project?
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- #58
Probably, but I guess we would have to rename the Category in each of the pages?
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I can make a request for Kav's bot to rename the category.
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- #60
Yeah, that may be better.
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I made the request.
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Poor-poor Shinki... All alone. Could we send her fanon daughter? =)Saikou The Lewd King said:
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- #64
@Ant Seems like it has, unless anyone else has objections.
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- #67
The category rename request is still pending, but other than that, it has been taken care of.
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- #69
Well fellow user Promestein did so, the request is still pending I guess.
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