About the Naming of the Kimetsu no Yaiba Character Pages.

[Reppuzan]

I've mostly been lurking on the site and skimming through pages, but I noticed that the Kimetsu no Yaiba pages have the character pages named "Last name, First name" in Eastern order rather than Western order.

We should probably rename them back to Western Order (i.e. Tanjirou Kamado) because that's consistent with most of our other Japanese characters (i.e. Ichigo Kurosaki, Izuku Midoriya, and Medaka Kurokami).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To be fair, it's not entirely consistent with what Japanese characters are named like. Though it depends on the verse; Monkey D. Luffy is in example of someone having the surnames first because that's how the Dub treats it. And Himura Kenshi has his name backwards as well, though most people refer to him as Kenshin Himura in the English translations. But this seems fine to me.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Medeus

I don't agree with using Eastern order in most cases aside from times where the official English translations does so.

Going through every anime character on the site would be a pain, but at the least the demon slayers should be manageable.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Fair enough, and yeah; most of the well known still use the western order. So I can agree with this but prefer approval from a few more staff members first.

 

[Newendigo]

O-M-G, El Repulzan is back (For who knows how much).

Also, yeah I do have a similar problem with the naming of the verses, since we're primarly an english/western wiki, then shouldn't we rename the verses if those have an official english name (I.e, change KnY to Demon Slayer)?

 

[Ionliosite]

I obviously disagree with renaming the verse page since that's totally stupid. I'm neutral about the names for the characters, but I would rather have them as they are.

 

[Newendigo]

Why is stupid? We are a english wiki and so our profiles should all follow an english format; name of verses, characters, techniques etc etc.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Why not put both Demon Slayer and Kimetsu No Yaiba? If you search for Kimetsu, the page appears, same for Demon Slayer. Create a link for both

 

[Ionliosite]

Why is stupid? We are a english wiki and so our profiles should all follow an english format; name of verses, characters, techniques etc etc.

Monkey D. Luffy (Post-Timeskip), one of the most important pages of the wiki, has everything about his naming in Japanese, so your point becomes pretty moot with that.

 

[Ionliosite]

Why not put both Demon Slayer and Kimetsu No Yaiba? If you search for Kimetsu, the page appears, same for Demon Slayer. Create a link for both

Yeah, leave the name as it is, and add Demon Slayer as a redirection.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Same thing with Enen no Shouboutai. Fire force my ass

 

[Ionliosite]

Technically speaking, that name isn't even right. The correct spelling is Enn Enn no Shouboutai, but whatever.

 

[M3X_2.0]

I saw "En En No Shouboutai" as well

 

[Newendigo]

Monkey D. Luffy (Post-Timeskip), one of the most important pages of the wiki, has everything about his naming in Japanese, so your point becomes pretty moot with that.

That is just one example of OP, and could be attributed to being such as popular character, and several of his powers/abilities being recognized in the western audience. No one would say a thing about Goku's Kamehameha.

Regarless, the names should defintly be changed.

 

[Ionliosite]

Exactly, Luffy has his Gomu Gomu techniques untranslated, and so does Goku's Kamehameha and Mafuba, so it's not like everything has to be translated.

 

[Newendigo]

Not everything, I said the things that at the very least do have an official translation.

I will ask Ant about the subject and see if he agrees with me.

 

[Ionliosite]

Not everything, I said the things that at the very least do have an official translation.

One Piece does, dude. Doesn't change the fact everything is untranslated.

 

[00potato]

Is this that important? As long as they are recognizable, that is all that matters for the sake of this indexing wiki. We shouldn't waste our time with this.

 

[Ionliosite]

Yeah, this is legit a waste of time.

 

[Reppuzan]

@00potato

Part of being an index is clarity. If you can't find stuff, you can't view it.

The majority of users on this site will type in "Tanjirou" into the search bar before they type in "Kamado" and "Zenitsu" before "Agatsuma".

@M3X

I can write up a redirect pretty easily. But I want the groundwork to be laid first.

 

[Newendigo]

No everything is untranslated, I already mentioned Naruto in which several techniques have both japanese and english names (OP is the same) and is also one of the most popular verses here.

I also said it could be matter of the original being more popular than the translation, at least in certain cases.

 

[Ionliosite]

The majority of users on this site will type in "Tanjirou" into the search bar before they type in "Kamado" and "Zenitsu" before "Agatsuma".

Just add redirects if you think that's a problem.

 

[Ionliosite]

I already mentioned Naruto in which several techniques have both japanese and english names (OP is the same) and is also one of the most popular verses here.

Yeah, which once again proves my point.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ionliosite

The difference is that the English translation still calls the technique "Rasengan" and "Kamehameha" in English even though a direct translation exists. Therefore it would not be helpful to provide the direct translation of the name because that was not how it was localized.

Luffy's name is written "Monkey D. Luffy" in the English translation, as is "Roronoa Zoro", and "Nico Robin". Meanwhile, in the official Demon Slayer translation, their names are written "Tanjirou Kamado", "Zenitsu Agatsuma" and "Inosuke Hashibara".

There's no reason to be needlessly obfuscating when you can just keep everything consistent.

Also, your Fire Force example is flawed, since "þéÄþéÄ" is pronounced "ÒüêÒéôÒüêÒéô", or "en en".

 

[Newendigo]

Yeah, which once again proves my point.

And I already mentioned why that is wrong next.

 

[Ionliosite]

Dude, you argument is so flawed. You're seriously saying Kimetsu no Yaiba should get an special treatment a much more important verse like One Piece doesn't have?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ionliosite

The reason why One Piece's examples are written the way they are is because the people who wrote them ripped the text word-for-word from the One Piece wiki. If I had the time and energy during my time as an admin, I would have completely rewritten all of those examples.

I'm not giving any series "special treatment". I'm trying to make things consistent.

No verse is more important than the other, and your only real arguments against the changes so far are "it's a waste of time", "it's stupid", and "your argument is so flawed".

It's ad hominem without substance.

 

[Ionliosite]

It's not ad hominem. You say you want to make things "consistent", when I can link you many different characters from many different verses that don't follow what your so called "consistency" is looking for. And yes, there are verses more important than others, look at the featured characters and franchise at the top of the wiki and you'll see I'm right. As I said before, I don't care if you rename the characters or not, I'm only against renaming the verse page.

 

[Reppuzan]

Two wrongs don't make a right. If established precedent is wrong, then it's important to break the status quo and improve the pages' clarity by making changes.

And no. Verses can be more trafficked than others but no page deserves to be left in a state of disrepair simply because it isn't "featured" or popular. The only time a verse becomes more "important" is when user tensions over content revisions boil over and create conflict that forces the staff to come down and arbitrate.

If you don't care about renaming the character pages then why are you fighting so hard to keep them the way they are? This is a relatively minor change.

 

[Ionliosite]

I'm not fighting to keep them the way they are tho. I'm fighting this whole "everything must be on English" logic given we're dealing with verses originally made in Japanese, so what it says in the original Japanese is way more important than anything any translation says.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ionliosit

Just because they're originally in Japanese doesn't mean it's always clearer in Japanese.

Does "Kaminari no Kokyu, Ichi no Kata, Hekireki Issen" sound clearer to an English speaker than "Breath of Thunder, First Form, Thunderclap and Flash"?

If we were to stick the former, we might as well render our descriptions in kanji.

 

[00potato]

It doesn't matter whether it is in English really just do what people recognize more. (Sadly this means no crappy JoJo localization but O can live without it.)

 

[Ionliosite]

I don't know if it sounds clearer or not, but that has nothing to do with my point anyways. Also, if I were to make that page, I'll name it "Kaminari no Kokyu, Ichi no Kata, Hekireki Issen" because that's how it originally.

 

[Ionliosite]

If we were to stick the former, we might as well render our descriptions in kanji.

We basically do this for the Masadaverse, so.

 

[Newendigo]

English is more easy when it comes to research purposes. Many users would have problems for searching certain verses with japanese names due to how confusing they are.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ionliosite

Masadaverse names are based off famous German operas that tie into the themes of the attacks and remain untranslated even in the official English release of Dies Irae.

Naming things in Japanese only works if the people reading it have a working knowledge of Japanese in the first place. If they do not, you're doing more harm than good to the clarity of the page.

 

[Ionliosite]

Masadaverse names are based off famous German operas that tie into the themes of the attacks and remain untranslated even in the official English release of Dies Irae.

What are you talking about Dies Irae when I used Kajiri Kamui Kagura as my argument? LOL.

 

[Ionliosite]

English is more easy when it comes to research purposes. Many users would have problems for searching certain verses with japanese names due to how confusing they are.

Literally not our fault they are looking for something without knowing its name.

 

[Newendigo]

Ion@ You should have specified instead of just linking Masadaverse tho.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Ionliosite

They should not have to have problems when searching for things or understanding articles.

The point of an indexing site is clarity and ease of use. If you have neither, what are you trying to do?