- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #241
bump
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Kimetsu no Yaiba Speed
- Thread starter Insert_creative_name_here_12
- Start date
- Status
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #244
You're welcome to but I don't even know if they care about this.
- 11,099
- 4,323
What's the discussion here?
- 11,099
- 4,323
Who has a fever btw
- 11,099
- 4,323
Well I agree with the OP. Using 343 m/s seems like the "hiding calculation" section Calc Stacking to me. Basically pretending that it's not a calculation when it's just stacking feats. Let alone the value might not even be accurate (I don't know about that though, since I am not knowledgeable about this verse).
I suggest we use 34.3 m/s, Subsonic speed, if the characters in the feat are indeed invisible to the naked eye.
I suggest we use 34.3 m/s, Subsonic speed, if the characters in the feat are indeed invisible to the naked eye.
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #250
The character in question can actually be percieved and reacted to by a normal human mid attack. Tanjirou (a character who completely outpaced said demon) later has trouble with speed of sound attacks. The justification for using that speed for the demon was also debunked since normal demons can be killed or fought off by normal humans.Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
The verse is MHS due to a couple things that I'll address in another reply.
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #251
About the MHS rating, it primarily comes from two demons and a calc, Zou Hakuten and Kaigaku.
Zou Hakuten's electricity manipulation is 8C in energy (though I was told that is no longer a criteria for lightning speed), and restricts the movements of its targets when flowing through them and is lightning shaped.
Kaigaku's electricity is lighting shaped, is said to produce heat though it has no visible effects on the human body and is conductive.
The calc in question is of a character cutting 10,000 clay fish very quickly.
There are a few anti feats that disprove these though along with an issue with this other calc.
1. Kanroji (a character who regularly dodged Zou Hakuten's electricity) was tagged by a sonic attack and is later unable to touch a demon who's power relies on playing an instrument to change the area.
2. Sanemi (superior to Kanroji) fought Kokushibo (a demon far superior to Zou Hakuten) and attempts to tag him with a gun shot from a couple feet away and was surprisined Kokushibo blocked it.
About that calc it assumes the fish were destroyed with 500-10,000 slashes for some reason even though the character who performed said feat was said to have attack range beyond his sword.
Zou Hakuten's electricity manipulation is 8C in energy (though I was told that is no longer a criteria for lightning speed), and restricts the movements of its targets when flowing through them and is lightning shaped.
Kaigaku's electricity is lighting shaped, is said to produce heat though it has no visible effects on the human body and is conductive.
The calc in question is of a character cutting 10,000 clay fish very quickly.
There are a few anti feats that disprove these though along with an issue with this other calc.
1. Kanroji (a character who regularly dodged Zou Hakuten's electricity) was tagged by a sonic attack and is later unable to touch a demon who's power relies on playing an instrument to change the area.
2. Sanemi (superior to Kanroji) fought Kokushibo (a demon far superior to Zou Hakuten) and attempts to tag him with a gun shot from a couple feet away and was surprisined Kokushibo blocked it.
About that calc it assumes the fish were destroyed with 500-10,000 slashes for some reason even though the character who performed said feat was said to have attack range beyond his sword.
- 11,099
- 4,323
If an electricity is over 8-C it travels at lightning speed, according to our Lightning Feats page.
- 14,409
- 1,692
Seems fine for now to me
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #255
Assuming there are anti feats or it isn't treated as anything fast?Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
- 11,099
- 4,323
Well if there are contradictory evidence that it isn't electricity/lightning then of course it cannot be used.
- 14,409
- 1,692
Can any of the anti feats be linked
- 2,336
- 1,442
So we can redo the Swamp Demon calc with subsonic speed. FTE speed was demonstrated by an injured Tanjiro who feels a lot of pain by just walking here. FTE speed was also demonstrated by Tanjiro during his training in the anime; note that the author was intimately involved in the anime adaption process so it would count as secondary cano. The civilian reacting sounds like a mild case of Talking Is a Free Actio; just because characters are having lengthy conversations or dropping an exposition dump doesn't mean that a FTL fight is actually subsonic. An injured Tanjiro had trouble with a combo of Spatial Manipulation + sound attacks coming from different directions, otherwise Tanjiro said that he would've been able to rush the demon if he wasn't injured. Exceptional people can fight a normal demon without Breathing techniques, and a demon strong enough to use Blood Demon Arts is not considered a normal demon.
To address the alleged anti-feats mentioned:
Mitsuri Kanroji was caught off guard through a surprise AoE sound attack while in mid-air; she thought the demon would simply die if she cuts his head. She was unable to touch a demon who plays a music instrument to conduct Spatial Manipulation... like teleporting her away when she gets close, this does not mean that the demon can only manipulate the environment at sound speed.
Sanemi wasn't using a normal gun but using a shotgun specifically made from Nichirin metal; Tanjiro said that the gun smells like a Nichirin sword and Sanemi used the shotgun to block Kokushibo's sword slash (which would not be slowed down by normal material). Nichirin metal gains various special properties based on the owner and his Breathing technique, so we can conclude that the shotgun fires at a much faster speed than a normal shotgun. Likewise, arguing that Relativistic Bleach characters should have their speed downgraded because they use guns and lightning is not a good argument.
The reasoning behind the number of slashes was already given and accepted; all the bisected fish shown have a uniform cross-section that indicates a cut directly from above, this does not allow for many fish to be cut at a time regardless of the attack range.
To address the alleged anti-feats mentioned:
Mitsuri Kanroji was caught off guard through a surprise AoE sound attack while in mid-air; she thought the demon would simply die if she cuts his head. She was unable to touch a demon who plays a music instrument to conduct Spatial Manipulation... like teleporting her away when she gets close, this does not mean that the demon can only manipulate the environment at sound speed.
Sanemi wasn't using a normal gun but using a shotgun specifically made from Nichirin metal; Tanjiro said that the gun smells like a Nichirin sword and Sanemi used the shotgun to block Kokushibo's sword slash (which would not be slowed down by normal material). Nichirin metal gains various special properties based on the owner and his Breathing technique, so we can conclude that the shotgun fires at a much faster speed than a normal shotgun. Likewise, arguing that Relativistic Bleach characters should have their speed downgraded because they use guns and lightning is not a good argument.
The reasoning behind the number of slashes was already given and accepted; all the bisected fish shown have a uniform cross-section that indicates a cut directly from above, this does not allow for many fish to be cut at a time regardless of the attack range.
- 4,458
- 4,524
https://********.org/chapter/328219/8
https://********.org/chapter/320401/7
https://********.org/chapter/434461/19 (Not sure if we consider being able to cut through liightning bolts with a metal weapon with no signs of conduction as an anti feat so you might just discount this one if you want)
https://********.org/chapter/320401/7
https://********.org/chapter/434461/19 (Not sure if we consider being able to cut through liightning bolts with a metal weapon with no signs of conduction as an anti feat so you might just discount this one if you want)
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #261
The swamp demon doesn't scale to Tanjirou (except in reaction speed) and was percieved mid attack by a normal human. Tanjirou pre training reacts to demon lunging at him and didn't even mention it's speed but physical strength.
Kanroji unironically got hit with an attack that is like 100x slower than her. Even if she was surprised it's pretty dumb to get hit with something like that when she's looking at said attack head on.
An ability that relies on an instrument being played would logically be speed of sound since the instrument has to produce noise for the effect to occur.
Assuming the gun has far higher speed is baseless, it is never noted to be faster than normal and all we can conclude is it is durable. The gun itself might not even be nichirin since Tanjirou didn't comment on the smell till after it fired and it didn't even change colo when Sanemi held it
Tanjirou himself also got hit with a sonic attack when fighting the emotion clones.
If Bleach characters didn't have sevral statements to back up their speed yeah it would be an anti feat. Things like Cero being called light, Aschwalen light, a character who uses light to attack and so on.
Demon Slayer has one character who could have real lightning and a questionable calc along with 3 instances of characters getting tagged or stopped with speed of sound attacks and Sanemi thinking he could hit Kokushibo with a gun.
How do the fish having similar slashes prevent them from being cut at a time? The page right after his range noted to have increased even shows the cuts were'nt all the same.
Kanroji unironically got hit with an attack that is like 100x slower than her. Even if she was surprised it's pretty dumb to get hit with something like that when she's looking at said attack head on.
An ability that relies on an instrument being played would logically be speed of sound since the instrument has to produce noise for the effect to occur.
Assuming the gun has far higher speed is baseless, it is never noted to be faster than normal and all we can conclude is it is durable. The gun itself might not even be nichirin since Tanjirou didn't comment on the smell till after it fired and it didn't even change colo when Sanemi held it
Tanjirou himself also got hit with a sonic attack when fighting the emotion clones.
If Bleach characters didn't have sevral statements to back up their speed yeah it would be an anti feat. Things like Cero being called light, Aschwalen light, a character who uses light to attack and so on.
Demon Slayer has one character who could have real lightning and a questionable calc along with 3 instances of characters getting tagged or stopped with speed of sound attacks and Sanemi thinking he could hit Kokushibo with a gun.
How do the fish having similar slashes prevent them from being cut at a time? The page right after his range noted to have increased even shows the cuts were'nt all the same.
- 2,336
- 1,442
Reaction speed is the ability to make a single movement in a timeframe, but the ability to dodge multiple attacks is called combat speed.Insert creative name here 12 said:
Refer to how talking is a free action.Insert creative name here 12 said:
Tanjirou pre training reacts to demon lunging at him and didn't even mention it's speed but physical strength.
Tanjiro never mentioned the Temple Demon's speed but just his physical strength? Making really poor arguments discourages discussion and gives the impression that you are arguing for the sake of argument.
Kanroji unironically got hit with an attack that is like 100x slower than her. Even if she was surprised it's pretty dumb to get hit with something like that when she's looking at said attack head on.
You are acting like she was attempting to dodge a projectile like an arrow or a bullet, but she was basically rushing into a wall of sound. As far as I know, air is for all intents and purposes invisible for human eyes, and it doesn't turn visible just because it has vibration.
An ability that relies on an instrument being played would logically be speed of sound since the instrument has to produce noise for the effect to occur.
Non-sequitur. The ability can be activated by stroking her biwa, and noise being produced can be a result of the ability being used.
Assuming the gun has far higher speed is baseless, it is never noted to be faster than normal and all we can conclude is it is durable. The gun itself might not even be nichirin since Tanjirou didn't comment on the smell till after it fired and it didn't even change colo when Sanemi held it
Likewise, we can say that guns, missiles, and lightning being faster than normal in Bleach is baseless because "it is never noted to be faster". The speed feats implies that the non-normal gun shoots faster than normal, it doesn't have to be explicitly stated. It is nice that you think guns intended for commercial sale in KnY are immensely stronger than boulders. Tanjiro noted that the gun smells like a Nichirin sword; how does the timing of the observation affect the validity of his statement? Nichirin swords don't instantly change colors or properties as soon as they have a new user.
Tanjirou himself also got hit with a sonic attack when fighting the emotion clones.
Same situation with Mitsuri; he wasn't dodging a projectile like an arrow or bullet, but he was rushing into an AoE wall of sound mid-air.
If Bleach characters didn't have sevral statements to back up their speed yeah it would be an anti feat. Things like Cero being called light, Aschwalen light, a character who uses light to attack and so on.
Good thing KnY has speed feats and non-normal guns aren't an anti-feat.
How do the fish having similar slashes prevent them from being cut at a time? The page right after his range noted to have increased even shows the cuts were'nt all the same.
The cuts being uniform roundel slices heavily restricts the number of fish killed per swing; it can be much more efficient to cut through a group of fish regardless of the cross-section produced. Don't know what you are talking about; point out where the cut angle wasn't the same in the panel you are talking about, and the approximate degree difference between the cross section.
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #263
Yeah the demons couldn't consistently react to him and were repeatedly outpaced.
The scenes I'm referring to have nothing to with talking though. The demon attempts to attack and the dude percieved him twice and even able to start moving before the demon could finish it's attack.
That was my bad. I forgot that he commented it was fast, but my point still stands that a normal human can fight a low level demon in combat.
How did she rush into a wall of sound? She attacked him, got warned and then got blasted. It wasn't like she ran towards him while he was charging the attack and even still it would take quite some time (in her perception) for the attack to actually cast.
You say that but the sound of her biwa comes before space shifts so it is literally occuring at the speed of sound.
Nichirin blades are color changing they do change colors when held by a person. The fact that the gun didn't change when held by Sanemi makes the gun itself being nichirin iffy. Tanjirou noted the smell when a bullet was fired so it implys the bullets are nichirin not the gun. I already said that Bleachc characters have several statements of things being light that it can go against their anti feats and I even gave examples. When you mentioned a gun I hope you're not referring to Stark shooting Ceros cause those are explicitly referred to as light in a data book.
Why do you keep saying that? The sound attack wasn't being launched and they just ran into it. In Tanjirou's case he attacked the demon by bisecting it then got hit with the blast and couldn't react. In that same fight he gets blasted before he can even attack.
It really doesn't and that's the issue. All you've got is Zou Hakuten's attacks but then Kanroji who can keep up with him get's stopped by speed of sound attacks and Sanemi thinks a gun is effectve against Kokushibo.
The page after Gyokko notes Tokitou's range and speed increased. The fish are shown to be cut unevenly.
The scenes I'm referring to have nothing to with talking though. The demon attempts to attack and the dude percieved him twice and even able to start moving before the demon could finish it's attack.
That was my bad. I forgot that he commented it was fast, but my point still stands that a normal human can fight a low level demon in combat.
How did she rush into a wall of sound? She attacked him, got warned and then got blasted. It wasn't like she ran towards him while he was charging the attack and even still it would take quite some time (in her perception) for the attack to actually cast.
You say that but the sound of her biwa comes before space shifts so it is literally occuring at the speed of sound.
Nichirin blades are color changing they do change colors when held by a person. The fact that the gun didn't change when held by Sanemi makes the gun itself being nichirin iffy. Tanjirou noted the smell when a bullet was fired so it implys the bullets are nichirin not the gun. I already said that Bleachc characters have several statements of things being light that it can go against their anti feats and I even gave examples. When you mentioned a gun I hope you're not referring to Stark shooting Ceros cause those are explicitly referred to as light in a data book.
Why do you keep saying that? The sound attack wasn't being launched and they just ran into it. In Tanjirou's case he attacked the demon by bisecting it then got hit with the blast and couldn't react. In that same fight he gets blasted before he can even attack.
It really doesn't and that's the issue. All you've got is Zou Hakuten's attacks but then Kanroji who can keep up with him get's stopped by speed of sound attacks and Sanemi thinks a gun is effectve against Kokushibo.
The page after Gyokko notes Tokitou's range and speed increased. The fish are shown to be cut unevenly.
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #266
bump
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #267
bump. Shadow do you have any rebuttals?
- 2,336
- 1,442
I don't deny that Tanjiro outpaced the Swamp Demon, however the Swamp Demon dodged consecutive attacks from Tanjiro which is combat speed.
The civilian screamed to convey to the audience that he is scared; a very mild example for Talking is a Free Action. A classic example of the trope in NGE
A demon capable of using Blood Demon Arts is not a low-level demon. Exceptional humans can fight a demon without Breathing techniques. Kokushibou was a skilled samurai, but he was helpless as an unnamed demon wiped out his entire samurai encampment, but Himejima who naturally has superhuman strength managed to punch through the head of a demon until sunset.
Nothing indicates Mitsuri was expecting an invisible AoE sound attack; she was mid-air and beheaded the demon.
You say that Dragon Ball characters are MFTL+, but for us audience the punches and sound effects resulting from the punches landing are simultaneous, therefore Dragon Ball characters are actually subsonic. Please nerf.
The sword Tanjiro borrowed for the Final Selection did not change to black, even though three swords Tanjiro owned turned to black. When Giyuu was looking for a sword to borrow he was searching for a blue-colored sword since it works best for Water Breathing; he didn't pick a random sword and have it change color. Tanjiro said that the *gun* smells like a Nichirin blade; he did not say the bullets coming out of the gun are made from Nichirin; that he made the comment after Genya fired does not affect this fact. I am talking about instances in Bleach such as when a character uses reality warping to create guns and rocket launchers against a relativistic character; imagine considering this an argument to downgrade the speed of Bleach.
Tanjiro didn't dodge a sound attack after he said that his body is numb and he was slowly crawling on the ground, so we need to change the entire scaling of the verse? The advantages of Zou Hauken's sound attacks is that they are invisible and have a large AoE; being caught by surprise while falling mid-air doesn't constitute an anti-feat.
"All you've got is Zou Hakuten's" more with the absurd downplays. What is amusing is that you mention a MHS / MHS+ feat in the following paragraph.
The panel shows two fish with a roundel slice, just like every single fish shown. How does this imply that Muichiro was maximizing the number of fish he cuts with each swing as he cuts through 100+ fish per swing?
The civilian screamed to convey to the audience that he is scared; a very mild example for Talking is a Free Action. A classic example of the trope in NGE
A demon capable of using Blood Demon Arts is not a low-level demon. Exceptional humans can fight a demon without Breathing techniques. Kokushibou was a skilled samurai, but he was helpless as an unnamed demon wiped out his entire samurai encampment, but Himejima who naturally has superhuman strength managed to punch through the head of a demon until sunset.
Nothing indicates Mitsuri was expecting an invisible AoE sound attack; she was mid-air and beheaded the demon.
You say that Dragon Ball characters are MFTL+, but for us audience the punches and sound effects resulting from the punches landing are simultaneous, therefore Dragon Ball characters are actually subsonic. Please nerf.
The sword Tanjiro borrowed for the Final Selection did not change to black, even though three swords Tanjiro owned turned to black. When Giyuu was looking for a sword to borrow he was searching for a blue-colored sword since it works best for Water Breathing; he didn't pick a random sword and have it change color. Tanjiro said that the *gun* smells like a Nichirin blade; he did not say the bullets coming out of the gun are made from Nichirin; that he made the comment after Genya fired does not affect this fact. I am talking about instances in Bleach such as when a character uses reality warping to create guns and rocket launchers against a relativistic character; imagine considering this an argument to downgrade the speed of Bleach.
Tanjiro didn't dodge a sound attack after he said that his body is numb and he was slowly crawling on the ground, so we need to change the entire scaling of the verse? The advantages of Zou Hauken's sound attacks is that they are invisible and have a large AoE; being caught by surprise while falling mid-air doesn't constitute an anti-feat.
"All you've got is Zou Hakuten's" more with the absurd downplays. What is amusing is that you mention a MHS / MHS+ feat in the following paragraph.
The panel shows two fish with a roundel slice, just like every single fish shown. How does this imply that Muichiro was maximizing the number of fish he cuts with each swing as he cuts through 100+ fish per swing?
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #270
The swamp demon dodged properly a total of one time. In every other attempt he lost limbs or suffered damage.
He still percieved the demon mid attack twice so it isn't fte.
Tanjirou wasn't ridiculously exceptional before his training and could tag the temple demon, the swamp demon isn't fte so perhaps it's an outlier.
Kanroji couldn't even finish beheading him before the attack was cast and was explicitly warned it wouldn't work and saw him prepping his attack while trying to behead him.
Dragon ball characters actually have various feats that contradict speed that such as kid Goku dodging lightning, Goku crossing half of Namek in a second, Buu being a threat to the universe because he could fly around and blow stuff up beyond light speed, Beerus traveling to another solar system with ease and probably more stuff I'm forgetting.
Giyuu never specified what color he wanted. The fact that Tanjirou was a water breath user and has a black blade shows not all of them are optimized for their breath, especially since they get their own sword after they train and pass final selection. So that one instance vs several light statements? That isn't enough.
Tanjirou attempts to attack the flying emotion clone and gets blasted before he can, Tanjirou bisects that demon and then is immediatly tagged by that same sound attack before he can do anything again.
You conveniently ignored what I said huh? The page right after what you showed has fish cut differently. Heck the page you posted proves my point in the upper left panel some fish are cut between their gills and pectoral fins while others are seperated from below the pectoral fins.
He still percieved the demon mid attack twice so it isn't fte.
Tanjirou wasn't ridiculously exceptional before his training and could tag the temple demon, the swamp demon isn't fte so perhaps it's an outlier.
Kanroji couldn't even finish beheading him before the attack was cast and was explicitly warned it wouldn't work and saw him prepping his attack while trying to behead him.
Dragon ball characters actually have various feats that contradict speed that such as kid Goku dodging lightning, Goku crossing half of Namek in a second, Buu being a threat to the universe because he could fly around and blow stuff up beyond light speed, Beerus traveling to another solar system with ease and probably more stuff I'm forgetting.
Giyuu never specified what color he wanted. The fact that Tanjirou was a water breath user and has a black blade shows not all of them are optimized for their breath, especially since they get their own sword after they train and pass final selection. So that one instance vs several light statements? That isn't enough.
Tanjirou attempts to attack the flying emotion clone and gets blasted before he can, Tanjirou bisects that demon and then is immediatly tagged by that same sound attack before he can do anything again.
You conveniently ignored what I said huh? The page right after what you showed has fish cut differently. Heck the page you posted proves my point in the upper left panel some fish are cut between their gills and pectoral fins while others are seperated from below the pectoral fins.
- 167,862
- 76,484
You should also ask the staff members listed in the Kimetsu no Yaiba verse page to comment here.
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #274
No conclusions have been reached yet since I'm guessing Shadow still has more to say. Thanks for the list I'll contact them when we've reached a conclusion.
- 2,336
- 1,442
The Swamp Demon dodged multiple attacks in succession as shown here or here, which is combat speed.
And characters often perceive things they normally couldn't for narrative purpose while Talking is a Free Action (in this case, to show that the civilian is scared); in the NGE example I provided, humans perceived and discussed an attack too fast for relativistic reactions mid-attack.
When the Temple Demon got more serious he moved FTE and Tanjiro couldn't tag him, and Tanjiro was helpless despite the Temple Demon still toying with him. Needless to say, the Swamp Demon is a lot more superior.
And since the nature of the attack was a surprise for her (since it is invisible with large AoE), it does not constitute an anti-feat.
I don't think most people would actually consider sound effects in Dragon Ball punches and kicks to be a type of anti-feats; they are simply examples of The Coconut Effect, where not portraying these sounds unrealistically would annoy the audience and break their immersion (even though they are unrealistic). Same thing with the audience being shown the biwa sounds and effects simultaneously; otherwise Mitsuri states that Nakime can control the Fortress as if it is her own body, indicating the control is at a speed similar to her reactions. Also, there are plenty of legit subsonic anti-feats in Dragon Ball Super alone.
There are people still arguing that Dragon Ball characters before Super are below light speed, claiming that the only evidence for lightspeed is a statement that managed to surpass the speed of sound and light, and a WoG that overwhelming Goku and Frieza with his light-speed attacks. But I've never seen sound effects being considered a subsonic anti-feat for Dragon Ball characters.
Nichirin swords don't change color after the first time. Tanjiro is a special case since he was always most suited to use Dance of the Fire God so his sword was black like Yoriichi's, and we are not talking about newbie Demon Slayers who just passed the Final Selection, but ones with experience and have interacted with the pillars previously and they can learn the Breathing techniques the best suits them (Water Breathing was said to be the most common because it is easy to learn for beginners, so learning multiple Breathing techniques is not uncommo). Giyuu wanted a blade used by a Water Breathing user, and as Kyojuro explained blue works best for Water Breathing, so the logical conclusion is that he was looking for a blue blade. It shows that non-normal weapons can be implies to be faster than normal weapons based on the context.
Tanjiro is grabbed and being flown upwards, and therefore toward the sound attack, which is not an anti-feat. The previous sound attack made Tanjiro's body numb and he was crawling slowly when he got 'tagged'.
We are talking about difference in angle of the cross-section, which directly affects the number of fish that he is able to cut per slash, since he have only cut the fish directly below him which only applies to a fraction of the fish at a time. Slight lateral difference is not relevant.
And characters often perceive things they normally couldn't for narrative purpose while Talking is a Free Action (in this case, to show that the civilian is scared); in the NGE example I provided, humans perceived and discussed an attack too fast for relativistic reactions mid-attack.
When the Temple Demon got more serious he moved FTE and Tanjiro couldn't tag him, and Tanjiro was helpless despite the Temple Demon still toying with him. Needless to say, the Swamp Demon is a lot more superior.
And since the nature of the attack was a surprise for her (since it is invisible with large AoE), it does not constitute an anti-feat.
I don't think most people would actually consider sound effects in Dragon Ball punches and kicks to be a type of anti-feats; they are simply examples of The Coconut Effect, where not portraying these sounds unrealistically would annoy the audience and break their immersion (even though they are unrealistic). Same thing with the audience being shown the biwa sounds and effects simultaneously; otherwise Mitsuri states that Nakime can control the Fortress as if it is her own body, indicating the control is at a speed similar to her reactions. Also, there are plenty of legit subsonic anti-feats in Dragon Ball Super alone.
There are people still arguing that Dragon Ball characters before Super are below light speed, claiming that the only evidence for lightspeed is a statement that managed to surpass the speed of sound and light, and a WoG that overwhelming Goku and Frieza with his light-speed attacks. But I've never seen sound effects being considered a subsonic anti-feat for Dragon Ball characters.
Nichirin swords don't change color after the first time. Tanjiro is a special case since he was always most suited to use Dance of the Fire God so his sword was black like Yoriichi's, and we are not talking about newbie Demon Slayers who just passed the Final Selection, but ones with experience and have interacted with the pillars previously and they can learn the Breathing techniques the best suits them (Water Breathing was said to be the most common because it is easy to learn for beginners, so learning multiple Breathing techniques is not uncommo). Giyuu wanted a blade used by a Water Breathing user, and as Kyojuro explained blue works best for Water Breathing, so the logical conclusion is that he was looking for a blue blade. It shows that non-normal weapons can be implies to be faster than normal weapons based on the context.
Tanjiro is grabbed and being flown upwards, and therefore toward the sound attack, which is not an anti-feat. The previous sound attack made Tanjiro's body numb and he was crawling slowly when he got 'tagged'.
We are talking about difference in angle of the cross-section, which directly affects the number of fish that he is able to cut per slash, since he have only cut the fish directly below him which only applies to a fraction of the fish at a time. Slight lateral difference is not relevant.
- 4,932
- 1,662
- Thread starter
- #277
The second scene you posted is anime only so it's just one dodge vs multiple times of failing to dodge properly.
We as the viewer know the guy is scared. The author doesn't need two different panels to show us that. The swamp demon also has no fte feats or higher so therefore him being percieved by a human fits.
Once again anime only scene, he's never portrayed that fast in the manga.
It very much is an anti feat since he launched it in time with her completing her attack. She's supposedly over 100x times faster than him.
Dragon ball super is known to be inconsistent. Dragon Ball itself has numerous feats that dbs characters scale from.
I already said the difference. DB characters have a statemnt in a guide iirc of relatavistic Goku, to prove any DB character is light speed you just have to prove they're 800,000 times kid Goku who could dodge lightning. I even gave evidence in the form of Buu being a threat to the universe.
Yoriichi's blade was black? Wasn't it stated to be red? What context implies it's faster? Genya can't even use a breathing form so he wouldn't even change the color of a nichirin weapon since the color is based on the form you're compatible with.
Tanjirou wasn't getting flown towards the attack it's the equivalent of getting your arm grabbed and getting punched while looking the person who grabbed you. If the attack was far slower than him he should've been able to complete his attack in time. So wait you're saying this numb and weakened Tanjirou is still fast enough to keep up with the emotion clones?
You said the fish were uniformly cut and I'm saying they weren't because in one of those panels you can literally see them cut differently like all that remains of some is chunk of the body severed from the tail and head.
We as the viewer know the guy is scared. The author doesn't need two different panels to show us that. The swamp demon also has no fte feats or higher so therefore him being percieved by a human fits.
Once again anime only scene, he's never portrayed that fast in the manga.
It very much is an anti feat since he launched it in time with her completing her attack. She's supposedly over 100x times faster than him.
Dragon ball super is known to be inconsistent. Dragon Ball itself has numerous feats that dbs characters scale from.
I already said the difference. DB characters have a statemnt in a guide iirc of relatavistic Goku, to prove any DB character is light speed you just have to prove they're 800,000 times kid Goku who could dodge lightning. I even gave evidence in the form of Buu being a threat to the universe.
Yoriichi's blade was black? Wasn't it stated to be red? What context implies it's faster? Genya can't even use a breathing form so he wouldn't even change the color of a nichirin weapon since the color is based on the form you're compatible with.
Tanjirou wasn't getting flown towards the attack it's the equivalent of getting your arm grabbed and getting punched while looking the person who grabbed you. If the attack was far slower than him he should've been able to complete his attack in time. So wait you're saying this numb and weakened Tanjirou is still fast enough to keep up with the emotion clones?
You said the fish were uniformly cut and I'm saying they weren't because in one of those panels you can literally see them cut differently like all that remains of some is chunk of the body severed from the tail and head.
- 2,336
- 1,442
Sent them invites on their message walls.
As explained previously, the anime adaption was overseen by the author, which makes it secondary canon (Gotōge-san is involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process. I was in constant contact with Gotōge-san throughout production. They actually have a great deal of trust in ufotable, so it was less about requesting changes and more about giving them useful advice to make the best work possible. In my opinion, it was a great working relationship.). And the manga panel still shows dodging multiple attacks in succession. To add another manga FTE feat, Genya's mother was a newly-transformed demon, and she slashed five of his siblings and jumped to the ceiling in front of him before he can perceive it (and considering demons usually go after their loved ones first, she probably haven't eaten anyone yet).
Many instances of 'Talking is a Free Action' are unnecessary but are just for emphasis. The Swamp Demon has FTE feats by virtue of fighting Tanjiro and Nezuko.
Zou Hakuten has comparable speed and Mitsuri could counter a punch attack for example, however Mitsuri was thinking of retreating as soon as she beheads him and lands on the ground, however a slower invisible AoE attack hit her after she beheads him and before she lands on the ground. For you to claim an outlier, an event has to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent, however the event here is perfectly coherent.
Dragon Ball is believed to be MFTL based on multipliers, but there are only a few questionable Relativistic/FTL feats and statements we can scale from before Super (also, Kid Goku dodging lightning is anime-only filler). If you believe that subsonic antifeats can be excused if there are various superior feats (i.e. lightning feats), then wouldn't it follow that we take the superior feats and agree to disagree on the existence of low outliers?
If you are insistent on denying something extremely obvious for some reason, Genya's page in the databook states that the gun is made from Nichiri. Breathing techniques can be used to make Nichirin swords stronger, extended slash range, create shockwaves, create illusions, etc. Considering that vastly lesser demons to Kokushibo can casually slice through Nichirin swords it is absolutely implied that Sanemi made the gun stronger when he blocked his slash with the gun, and considering that massively slower demons to Kokushibo can block the bullets it is absolutely implied that Sanemi made the bullets faster. Likewise, it is implied that Gremmy made his guns and missile launchers fast like his other attacks even though it is not stated.
Nichirin swords and Demon Slayers existed long before the organization learned about Breathing techniques; the different sword forms of the Flame/Water/Wind/Stone/Lightning Pillars were likely made to fit the different properties of the Nichirin blade, and when Yoriichi helped them modify the Breath of the Sun into a new Breathing system (since most of them can't use the Breath of the Sun) they modified it to fit their strengths and therefore the sword forms they are best with.
Yoriichi had a black sword that turned red whenever he fights, Kokuchibu also stated that he thought only Breath of the Sun uesrs are capable of changing the color of their sword into red. The supposed successor to the Breath of Flame (meaning he should have learned it) mentioned that a Nichirin sword won't change color for him because he needs to further improve his sword skills first, so theoretically Genya (who wanted to be a Pillar) should get a color change if his combat skills are good enough; the color change seems to be a mix of elements, such as personality (since there is a "what color suits you" flowchart in the databook) and combat style compatibility and Breathing technique compatibility.
If Tanjiro was getting flown upwards, and the sound attack was flying downwards, then Tanjiro was flying toward the attack. Therefore there is no contradiction, especially since Tanjiro described Urogi's flight speed to be fast. A numb and weakened Tanjiro, who is crawling and trying to get energy to get up, would need a lot less effort to swing his arm than he would need to stand up and run.
I said the cross-section was uniform at the shape of roundel slices, the angle of cross-section to be more specific which is what is relevant for the number of slashes. The only 'chunks' I can see looks like a tail wagged away from the screen and a fish head turned away from screen, and even if they were chunks they have the same restrictive cross-section angle which means that Muichiro was inefficient in his cutting and increased the number of slashes.
As explained previously, the anime adaption was overseen by the author, which makes it secondary canon (Gotōge-san is involved in checking over the scenarios, character designs, settings, and overall they are intimately involved in the anime adaptation process. I was in constant contact with Gotōge-san throughout production. They actually have a great deal of trust in ufotable, so it was less about requesting changes and more about giving them useful advice to make the best work possible. In my opinion, it was a great working relationship.). And the manga panel still shows dodging multiple attacks in succession. To add another manga FTE feat, Genya's mother was a newly-transformed demon, and she slashed five of his siblings and jumped to the ceiling in front of him before he can perceive it (and considering demons usually go after their loved ones first, she probably haven't eaten anyone yet).
Many instances of 'Talking is a Free Action' are unnecessary but are just for emphasis. The Swamp Demon has FTE feats by virtue of fighting Tanjiro and Nezuko.
Zou Hakuten has comparable speed and Mitsuri could counter a punch attack for example, however Mitsuri was thinking of retreating as soon as she beheads him and lands on the ground, however a slower invisible AoE attack hit her after she beheads him and before she lands on the ground. For you to claim an outlier, an event has to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent, however the event here is perfectly coherent.
Dragon Ball is believed to be MFTL based on multipliers, but there are only a few questionable Relativistic/FTL feats and statements we can scale from before Super (also, Kid Goku dodging lightning is anime-only filler). If you believe that subsonic antifeats can be excused if there are various superior feats (i.e. lightning feats), then wouldn't it follow that we take the superior feats and agree to disagree on the existence of low outliers?
If you are insistent on denying something extremely obvious for some reason, Genya's page in the databook states that the gun is made from Nichiri. Breathing techniques can be used to make Nichirin swords stronger, extended slash range, create shockwaves, create illusions, etc. Considering that vastly lesser demons to Kokushibo can casually slice through Nichirin swords it is absolutely implied that Sanemi made the gun stronger when he blocked his slash with the gun, and considering that massively slower demons to Kokushibo can block the bullets it is absolutely implied that Sanemi made the bullets faster. Likewise, it is implied that Gremmy made his guns and missile launchers fast like his other attacks even though it is not stated.
Nichirin swords and Demon Slayers existed long before the organization learned about Breathing techniques; the different sword forms of the Flame/Water/Wind/Stone/Lightning Pillars were likely made to fit the different properties of the Nichirin blade, and when Yoriichi helped them modify the Breath of the Sun into a new Breathing system (since most of them can't use the Breath of the Sun) they modified it to fit their strengths and therefore the sword forms they are best with.
Yoriichi had a black sword that turned red whenever he fights, Kokuchibu also stated that he thought only Breath of the Sun uesrs are capable of changing the color of their sword into red. The supposed successor to the Breath of Flame (meaning he should have learned it) mentioned that a Nichirin sword won't change color for him because he needs to further improve his sword skills first, so theoretically Genya (who wanted to be a Pillar) should get a color change if his combat skills are good enough; the color change seems to be a mix of elements, such as personality (since there is a "what color suits you" flowchart in the databook) and combat style compatibility and Breathing technique compatibility.
If Tanjiro was getting flown upwards, and the sound attack was flying downwards, then Tanjiro was flying toward the attack. Therefore there is no contradiction, especially since Tanjiro described Urogi's flight speed to be fast. A numb and weakened Tanjiro, who is crawling and trying to get energy to get up, would need a lot less effort to swing his arm than he would need to stand up and run.
I said the cross-section was uniform at the shape of roundel slices, the angle of cross-section to be more specific which is what is relevant for the number of slashes. The only 'chunks' I can see looks like a tail wagged away from the screen and a fish head turned away from screen, and even if they were chunks they have the same restrictive cross-section angle which means that Muichiro was inefficient in his cutting and increased the number of slashes.
- 7,095
- 3,855
Ok what is going on here?
- Status
Similar threads
