About Sora's (Kingdom Hearts) Existence Erasure

[Ogbunabali]

Well I just found out that we're treating the spell "Warp" as Existence Erasure. I'm really interested where this comes from.

On his profile it's given this description

"A spell that allows Sora to generate a spatial anomaly that sucks enemies in and erases them from existence."

And, to my knowledge, there is no fluff associated for this power, so I'm curious for the source of this description.

It should be noted that the literal translation for this spell is "Dezone". Which is comprised of the prefix "De", which can stand for privation, removal, separation, negation, descent, etc. And "zone" for which the definition is

"an area or stretch of land having a particular characteristic, purpose, or use, or subject to particular restrictions."

So the literal meaning of the spell is removal (De) of an area (zone). Not to mention that it has striking similarities with a spell from another franchise of the same company, funny enough called Warp as well, that has the same effect and acts in the same way, and it's BFR.

I would like to see the source of the description on his profile that says it's EE, because to me it seems like it should clearly be BFR.

 

[TartaChocholate]

Hmm, if Dezone is taking cues from its Final Fantasy variant then it is indeed BFR.

I mean, in FF it's translated as Warp, X-Zone, Remove and many things, but it's always about sending enemies to another dimension. In japanese it is indeed, Dezone, as you say,

Kingdom Hearts's Warp

Final Fantasy Warp

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

That sounds like BFR to me as well. But I'm not a Kingdom Hearts guy, so I'll let the others who know talk it out.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yeah it seems like BFR

 

[Bobsican]

It´s to be noted that while the name and main usage of a move is obviously a rip-off from FF, in Kingdom Hearts the usage can vary.

Meaning that the description in the original language should also be mentioned.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes but erased from existence can also mean BFR and everything else points too it

 

[Ogbunabali]

Yes but where does that description come from. I don't remember that fluff for Warp, which is why I asked for a source on that in the OP.

 

[Sumguyonvswiki2]

I can't thank the admins enough for soras upgrade make sure he doesn't get downgraded for me because my boy will keep getting stronger in the future with new keyblades and forms coming to the game

 

[TheSpeedster96]

BBS outright states that Warp erases the target from existence.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Hmm it would be nice to get the Japanese description as well of that.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

I also want to note that Warpinator[1] is stated to eliminate the closest enemy, and it's basically a lesser version of Warp. It doesn't make any reference to BFRing someone.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

What. Erased from existence would equate to Existence Erasure, we would literally only treat this as such if said BFR leads to an area that erases you which takes far more assumptions that standard Existence Erasure and the second postulation wouldn't be supported in canon at all, we have more reason to treat it as Existence Erasure than BFR with the current info brought to refute this.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Hmm it would be nice to get the Japanese description as well of that.

You likely aren't going to get it, the English translation suffices and name changes of techniques are of common place in RPGs, just noting this if you want to say the description is translated inaccurately or something like that.

There is more pointing against it being mere BFR. "Dezone" is literally just a name and about as credible as claiming it's BFR as Boros destroying stars with Collapsing Star Roaring Cannon. Even if we take the name as a possibility, the idea they are removed from the premise through erasure wouldn't even be incorrect to assume here when there's context showing it erases.

Final Fantasy is of a similar origin, but that doesn't automatically mean BFR just because it's treated that way in Final Fantasy. Where as the Final Fantasy application is straightforward of teleportation, Kingdom Hearts doesn't give such an interpretation so how both work in series would already give problems to say they have the absolute same properties even further.

tl;dr it is quite simply an easy Existence Erasure

 

[Bobsican]

Inverted Tempest makes sense.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

That does say "wipe" rather than "it erased" the target from existence, but that will be semantics.


Wait it say "potentially" in that very scan implying there is a chance to wipe the enemy. Has there been gameplay videos on how this ability works?

 

[TheSpeedster96]

Yes, you can see them on YouTube. I've played BBS, and iicr, it works everytime.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Okay I would like to see this ability to see if the description matches with what is shown from this ability @Speedster.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

@Hammer Terra using Warp

 

[HammerStrikes219]

@Hammer Terra using Warp

Unfortunately I did not see the Warp ability and its name being showcase in that particular timeframe.

 

[Bobsican]

@Hammer Terra using Warp

Timestamp?

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yes but where does that description come from. I don't remember that fluff for Warp, which is why I asked for a source on that in the OP.

It seems there is a gif from a different KH game that show this warp in action: https://www.khwiki.com/File:Warp_KHRECOM.gif

 

[Bobsican]

@Hammer Terra using Warp

Timestamp?

20:30

 

[HammerStrikes219]

@Hammer Terra using Warp

Timestamp?

20:30

Apparently the gif I shown here is different from the BBS's one. It show more than one enemy being affected by this it seems.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Sorry, I thought that I put the timestamp in. It's around 20:30 mark.

I do have a question. According to the wiki, in BBS, it is possible to upgrade the warp ability it seems: https://www.khwiki.com/Warp

Yet in that very same instance, we see the warp being used to affect multiple enemies at once.

Does this mean what we have see is a lvl 1 warp in that video?

 

[TheSpeedster96]

The game mechanics for Warp are different between CoM and BBS, but that doesn't disprove them being the same ability.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

The game mechanics for Warp are different between CoM and BBS, but that doesn't disprove them being the same ability.

Except one thing. The very same page being linked used a Gif to demonstrate that the warp can be used to on multiple enemies and using game mechanics isn't allowed here for specific reasons unless lore backs up the said ability in question. Game Mechanics

Also it seems it is possible for the warp to be upgraded in BBS.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

What? You realize that the game mechanics of Warp from CoM to BBS actually is different right? Using Warp erases all enemies on screen and drops EXP, no items. BBS switches it and has no EXP and has item drops. It's literally a mechanic switch.

 

[HST_Master]

Warp simply has different mechanics in each game. Same as other Magic like Aero (In one game it's a gust of wind directly casted on another, in another it's a barrier, in another it's a projectile)

And yes iirc Warp affects more enemies the higher the level in BBS. In CoM Warpinator affects only one and Warp affects all.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Warp simply has different mechanics in each game. Same as other Magic like Aero (In one game it's a gust of wind directly casted on another, in another it's a barrier, in another it's a projectile)

And yes iirc Warp affects more enemies the higher the level in BBS. In CoM Warpinator affects only one and Warp affects all.

Different mechanics while it is the same ability as stated by Speedster.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

Okay, so how dows that disprove the end result being the enemy is erased? The example you used of Aero had a complete change from a barrier that reduced damage to only wind manip, while Warp in both games has the same end result.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

What? You realize that the game mechanics of Warp from CoM to BBS actually is different right? Using Warp erases all enemies on screen and drops EXP, no items. BBS switches it and has no EXP and has item drops. It's literally a mechanic switch.

Yeah I know. At this point, it will be redundant to state this fact though.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Okay, so how dows that disprove the end result being the enemy is erased? The example you used of Aero had a complete change from a barrier that reduced damage to only wind manip, while Warp in both games has the same end result.

It disprove that the Warp can target a single enemy since it seems to be able to affect multiple enemies as well.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

Hmm. Alright.

 

[HST_Master]

Okay, so how dows that disprove the end result being the enemy is erased? The example you used of Aero had a complete change from a barrier that reduced damage to only wind manip, while Warp in both games has the same end result.

I'm not against it being EE, I only pointed out that other games have had abilities be the same but have a different mechanic.

 

[TheSpeedster96]

Yeah I know, and you are right.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Tbh the warp ability does seem to be a combination of BFR and Existence Erasure I think given the visuals for the wrap ability and description justifying that.

 

[Ogbunabali]

snip

No, not really. The same way how Boros's Collapsing Star Canon was mistranslated to mean that he can destroy a star, Warp can be mistranslated as well. So the English is not enough and original Japanese description is definitely needed.

 

[Inverted_Tempest]

Asking for translations seems incredibly unnecessary as a way to undermine the English scan. We don't start asking for scans of everything in Japanese just because something was changed upon translation, or else that would literally make any JRPG revision tedious and annoying to try to get everything we can in Japanese and seems like more a hustle than what's necessary.

Boros's thing was a fanlation regardless IIRC or some Blu-Ray guide that wouldn't have the same realistic effort of translation of something official, it really isn't the same case.

You can look at the literal animation Speedster supplied and literally everyone else is agreeing Existence Erasure is fine here + BFR. The only one who seems against it now is you for not the sharpest of reasons at this point.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Asking for translations seems incredibly unnecessary as a way to undermine the English scan. We don't start asking for scans of everything in Japanese just because something was changed upon translation, or else that would literally make any JRPG revision tedious and annoying to try to get everything we can in Japanese and seems like more a hustle than what's necessary.

This. So much this.

This is honestly a really big pet peeve of mine and I think this should have a thread to address this.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Bump