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About Makima's downgrade.

Fixxed said:
Same with you, we all discussed this Thread and based only with a headcanon lol.
Click to expand...
Nope, things that you're saying earlier is just a totally headcanon. Different than me that have basis for it.

Fixxed said:
I say, You can try to calc other character to support MHS makima&MHS denji case by case.
Although if Makima MHS and gunfiend Subsonic

Denji is comparable to gunfiend which one have SubSonic speed, and in chapter 95 makima comparable to denji which it makima having Subsonic speed atbest for now
Click to expand...
So you're trying to be burdening of proof? The calc method is indeed one of the important methods for determining statistics but at this time we use scaling as the most appropriate method because their fight was offscreen. You're just repeating the same argument over and over again. In fact, it doesn't make more sense if you cap Denji at that level. I mean if both of them is comparable to one characters, and it has been proven they are also comparable in onscreen battle it more wise to cap them in a same league. That's how scaling works. Makima is able to defeat the Gun Devil who has MHS speed, and Denji who also defeats the Gun Fiend which was originally the Gun Devil, they end up having a comparable speed and therefore they are capable of exchange attacks.

Thought for Denji, the speed is still unclear but for Makima it should be. If you reread Makima completely excelled at the battle, indeed Makima had previously died like her head was slashed but that was because he did it on purpose. The proof is that at the end of the battle, Makima won hands down by being able to take the heart of the Chainsawman. Unfortunately, he was even hit by Denji's trap and instead reduced his defense, leaving a large opening to attack.

For me, Makima is indeed MHS here, just because in chapter 96 Makima died with Denji doesn't mean she has an inferior speed. It was more like a form of ignorance of Makima towards his opponent's attacks because she was immortal, just like in the earlier case.
 
I'm not talking about chapter 96 btw, i talking about chapter 96 which one makima and denji exchange blows
 
Are u know what's my point?

If makima have MHS speed, she can easily outspeed denji which one denji only sub Sonic speed
 
Fixxed said:
I'm not talking about chapter 96 btw, i talking about chapter 96 which one makima and denji exchange blows
Click to expand...
I just reffering to one of chapters that shows Makima lose to him by PIS. Thought it should be clear, unless you want to keep denial and said "calc it to make it reliable" while the material that we had disscused here are different lol.
 
EinelRendezvous said:
I just reffering to one of chapters that shows Makima lose to him by PIS. Thought it should be clear, unless you want to keep denial and said "calc it to make it reliable" while the material that we had disscused here are different lol.
Click to expand...
"Calc it to make it reliable" refer to fiend gun vs denji
 
Fixxed said:
Are u know what's my point?

If makima have MHS speed, she can easily outspeed denji which one denji only sub Sonic speed
Click to expand...
And are you know about my point too? In the end of battle with the Chainsawman, Makima is the winner. Troughout the battle Makima's attack capable to outspeed Denji's one, it shows how Makima is more superior than him in the middle of battle. It also shows that Denji can't react her movement attacks. And in the end Makima is the winner.

In the battle it actually show how superior Makima is than the Chainsawman, you're saying like Makima having a comparable one or even inferior because in the previous panel her head is cutted by Denji. In the end Makima is far superior than him, so it should be prove my point.
 
EinelRendezvous said:
And are you know about my point too? In the end of battle with the Chainsawman, Makima is the winner. Troughout the battle Makima's attack capable to outspeed Denji's one, it shows how Makima is more superior than him in the middle of battle. It also shows that Denji can't react her movement attacks. And in the end Makima is the winner.

In the battle it actually show how superior Makima is than the Chainsawman, you're saying like Makima having a comparable one or even inferior because in the previous panel her head is cutted by Denji. In the end Makima is far superior than him, so it should be prove my point.
Click to expand...
EinelRendezvous said:
The conclusion should be like the same as the thread says. Thought if we continue this it will be only ad-infinitum type of argument by opponent. Up to you now.
Click to expand...
Still reply? okay...
Click to expand...
Gun fiend and denji only having sub Sonic speed,

And IF makima having MHS speed, she can easily Blitz denji in chapter 95
 
So you don't have any new argument left? I see, as I thought this disscusion will only be ad-infinitum type of argument by the opponent. Troughout the middle of battle and in the end, Makima actually capable to blitzing Denji and make him can't react her movement. I also prove it on above, the scans is actually clear.

It should be closed then.
 
That's not how it work lol, gap sub Sonic to MHS is big

Anyway my argument is still same

Waiting other member to calc Csm verse for supporting Makima MHS
 
Ok I won't continue argue about this to you since you're denialing about this and didn't understand about your opponent point. Even thought the opponent has bring the evidences for their claim, you keep denial.

🤔👌
 
Don't Blame your opponent btw, that's not good .

Again again and again, you must be have real Feats about makima speed, don't only use a Assumption. that's not how this site work
 
Fixxed said:
Don't Blame your opponent btw, that's not good .
Click to expand...
Well you can't also saying the same argument that have been debunked. Just like how you said that's not how the site work. I don't blame you but that's the fact thought.
Fixxed said:
Again again and again, you must be have real Feats about makima speed, don't only use a Assumption. that's not how this site work
Click to expand...
At the top, one of the reasons you are become opponent from this is because "if Makima has MHS speed then she should be able to blitz Denji". Which I have argued and prove it Makima could against it, with evidence from the manga directly, when the fight takes place especially towards the climax Makima is superior to Denji even to the point of making Denji unable to react to her attacks. This leaves Makima as the winner. This means that Makima is able to blitz Denji, on the other hand I want you to prove that at that time Makima had an inferior speed. Just because at the beginning of the fight they look comparable doesn't mean it can last until the end, this is evident with Makima who immediately excels in the middle of the fight and wins hands down at the end to take the heart of Chainsawman or Pochita.

You keep saying like "that's not how this site work" just how an expert do. Even though the arguments you put out come from wilder assumptions than mine.

Irony.
 
EinelRendezvous said:
The conclusion should be like the same as the thread says. Thought if we continue this it will be only ad-infinitum type of argument by opponent. Up to you now.
Click to expand...
EinelRendezvous said:
Ok I won't continue argue about this to you since you're denialing about this and didn't understand about your opponent point. Even thought the opponent has bring the evidences for their claim, you keep denial.

🤔👌
Click to expand...
Such be a hypocrite, if you need continue your argue, don't say "Up to you"
If you need to stop "Don't reply my comment again"



Back to Topic


Like i say, you must have a calc character to supporting MHS makima, i totally agree MHS makima if have 3-4 supporting feats. Not just a Assumption
 
Fixxed said:
Such be a hypocrite, if you need continue your argue, don't say "Up to you"
Click to expand...
Actually I'm referring to Antvasima to take over this thread and evaluate it as he wants instead of referring to you. Isn't that obvious? Although until now the evaluation has not taken place.
Fixxed said:
Back to Topic


Like i say, you must have a calc character to supporting MHS makima, i totally agree MHS makima if have 3-4 supporting feats. Not just a Assumption
Click to expand...
Bruh. You don't get how scaling works, are you? And you just keep burdening of proof right now. I been debunking your argument since very beginning with reliable scans from manga. Okay if that is what you want, I will provide 3-4 argument with scans that will prove it consistent and debunking your argument again since the very beginning. if I recall it back rightly:

Your arguments as an opponent:
1. Makima can't be MHS because herself died by a bullets from a gun.
2. Makima can't be MHS because herself can't blitz Denji in the final battle and comparable to him in the beginning.
3. Denji is only subsonic and not even close to MHS because Denji couldn't blitz Makima's army including Reze.
4. Makima's fight with the Gun Devil was offscreen even thought Makima didn't exchange attacks Makima could defeat him by having herself died time by time like a decoy because she is immortal so that feats couldn't be considered as an attack speed feats.

Totally that all are your arguments since the very beginning. The counter argument for that:

1. Makima who was killed by a bullet cannot be considered an anti-feats because Makima doesn't care if she was shot and dead. This is recognized by Makima that shooting her will be pointless. Rather making an assumption her speed was inferior than the bullet, it becomes a form of ignorance because she is immortal.

2. Actually, if you say that Makima, who is comparable to Denji in the beginning of battle, can be considered as anti-feats. In fact, it is known wrong. From the previous chapter after Denji was formed. Makima wanted to trade blows against Denji personally and kill him, this means that Makima can deliberately get rid of attacks from Denji, she just want to trade blows with him. So an anti-feats that you said earlier is a form of a misconception. And it has been proven in the end of battle with the Chainsawman, where it shows that Makima is able to blitz Denji and make she as the winner. Troughout the battle Makima's attack capable to outspeed Denji's one, it shows how Makima is more superior than him in the middle of battle. It also shows that Denji can't react her movement attacks. And in the end Makima is the winner. It's an evidences that Makima capable to blitz Denji and far superior than him.

3. In fact, Denji was able to blitzed all of them and almost defeat the entire team of Makima. Even takes it to the point where Makima herself needs to step in. The panels you brought earlier where it shows Denji get stomped by many people of Makima's guys are only a handful of panels which can create a misunderstandings. In the first part of the fight Denji was able to overcome many of his opponents, even though he still was bothered by many of them including Reze, Denji was still able to provide a good resistance to them. Indeed there's a scene where Denji at that time was stomped by many people including Reze, but that's because Denji's attention was distracted by Reze after countering her. But at the end of the fight Denji managed to overcome everything and proceeds to attack Makima. Although he was considered weaker at that time, but the end of the fight was won by Denji. I don't see this as anti feats.

4. The basis of this MHS Makima, even though the battle was offscreen is focused to her technique. Since Makima is the one that control it and has mind manipulation feats, we can consider that their stats especially in sense (speed) are corresponding one to each other. The result of the battle shows that Makima wins in the end, it means her attack will need a speed that comparable to her enemy. If not how can she defeat him in the first place? Or even hit him? It's a simple logic. And Makima, who died in the first part could not be categorized as anti-feats. Since Makima was intentionally want to be killed and the attack from Gun Devil did not even make Makima budge. From the start Makima had been waiting for Gun Devil also at that time Makima was preparing her technique, that's why I said She was intentionally want to be killed because she was preparing her technique and she is immortal. Makima's expression was still smiling arrogantly even after getting killed. To assume Makima at the time had inferior speed was absurd. In the last part after the technique is active it is shown that Gun Devil reacts to Makima's attack and faces upwards. We better assume that Makima's attack has an attack speed that is comparable to or faster than the Gun Devil because in the end Makima has defeated him. If we assume that Gun Devil doesn't attack Makima again after killing her for the first time and letting Makima to killing him it also doesn't make sense because Gun Devil has a mission to kill Makima from existence.

All of that are a supporting argument and feats for Makima. And it has been proving as a consistent one.
 
Last edited:
EinelRendezvous said:
Actually I'm referring to Antvasima to take over this thread and evaluate it as he wants instead of referring to you. Isn't that obvious? Although until now the evaluation has not taken place.

Bruh. You don't get how scaling works, are you? And you just keep burdening of proof right now. I been debunking your argument since very beginning with reliable scans from manga. Okay if that is what you want, I will provide 3-4 argument with scans that will prove it consistent and debunking your argument again since the very beginning. if I recall it back rightly:

Your arguments as an opponent:
1. Makima can't be MHS because herself died by a bullets from a gun.
2. Makima can't be MHS because herself can't blitz Denji in the final battle and comparable to him in the beginning.
3. Denji is only subsonic and not even close to MHS because Denji couldn't blitz Makima's army including Reze.
4. Makima's fight with the Gun Devil was offscreen even thought Makima didn't exchange attacks Makima could defeat him by having herself died time by time like a decoy because she is immortal so that feats couldn't be considered as an attack speed feats.

Totally that all are your arguments since the very beginning. The counter argument for that:

1. Makima who was killed by a bullet cannot be considered an anti-feats because Makima doesn't care if she was shot and dead. This is recognized by Makima that shooting her will be pointless. Rather making an assumption her speed was inferior than the bullet, it becomes a form of ignorance because she is immortal.

2. Actually, if you say that Makima, who is comparable to Denji in the beginning of battle, can be considered as anti-feats. In fact, it is known wrong. From the previous chapter after Denji was formed. Makima wanted to trade blows against Denji personally and kill him, this means that Makima can deliberately get rid of attacks from Denji, she just want to trade blows with him. So an anti-feats that you said earlier is a form of a misconception. And it has been proven in the end of battle with the Chainsawman, where it shows that Makima is able to blitz Denji and make she as the winner. Troughout the battle Makima's attack capable to outspeed Denji's one, it shows how Makima is more superior than him in the middle of battle. It also shows that Denji can't react her movement attacks. And in the end Makima is the winner. It's an evidences that Makima capable to blitz Denji and far superior than him.

3. In fact, Denji was able to blitzed all of them and almost defeat the entire team of Makima. Even takes it to the point where Makima herself needs to step in. The panels you brought earlier where it shows Denji get stomped by many people of Makima's guys are only a handful of panels which can create a misunderstandings. In the first part of the fight Denji was able to overcome many of his opponents, even though he still was bothered by many of them including Reze, Denji was still able to provide a good resistance to them. Indeed there's a scene where Denji at that time was stomped by many people including Reze, but that's because Denji's attention was distracted by Reze after countering her. But at the end of the fight Denji managed to overcome everything and proceeds to attack Makima. Although he was considered weaker at that time, but the end of the fight was won by Denji. I don't see this as anti feats.

4. The basis of this MHS Makima, even though the battle was offscreen is focused to her technique. Since Makima is the one that control it and has mind manipulation feats, we can consider that their stats especially in sense (speed) are corresponding one to each other. The result of the battle shows that Makima wins in the end, it means her attack will need a speed that comparable to her enemy. If not how can she defeat him in the first place? Or even hit him? It's a simple logic. And Makima, who died in the first part could not be categorized as anti-feats. Since Makima was intentionally want to be killed and the attack from Gun Devil did not even make Makima budge. From the start Makima had been waiting for Gun Devil also at that time Makima was preparing her technique, that's why I said She was intentionally want to be killed because she was preparing her technique and she is immortal. Makima's expression was still smiling arrogantly even after getting killed. To assume Makima at the time had inferior speed was absurd. In the last part after the technique is active it is shown that Gun Devil reacts to Makima's attack and faces upwards. We better assume that Makima's attack has an attack speed that is comparable to or faster than the Gun Devil because in the end Makima has defeated him. If we assume that Gun Devil doesn't attack Makima again after killing her for the first time and letting Makima to killing him it also doesn't make sense because Gun Devil has a mission to kill Makima from existence.

All of that are a supporting argument and feats for Makima. And it has been proving as a consistent one.
Click to expand...
1. ... this is the big anti feats if makima can't react MHS speed
2.thats not a Blitz, you know the difference between sub Sonic vs MHS speed? Use your logic dude
3. Makima smiling, that's not changing anything if makima can't react Gun devil attack. Give the proof if makima not dead again, again, and again after fought gun devil. < Actually we don't have this, because the battle is offscreen. That's why you must Throw this feats to Basket. And change reason to MHS makima.
4. Same with no 3^
 
Not too sure what’s going on, but as OP proved above Makima outspends denji plenty of times.

In her fight with the gun devil she is comparable to him, infact their fight is more Makima favored than anything. We already see that she can track him, and the activates her ability to kill it. Pretty clear that she can react to, and kill the gun devil. By the scans we can’t tell how the fight went of course, but to the sudden fade to black I wouldn’t be surprised if she just oneshot it.

what’s the assumption being made that proves makima can’t react to gun devil? Because she, literally standing still activating an attack, didn’t dodge bullets?
 
Comicgyal said:
Not too sure what’s going on, but as OP proved above Makima outspends denji plenty of times.

In her fight with the gun devil she is comparable to him, infact their fight is more Makima favored than anything. We already see that she can track him, and the activates her ability to kill it. Pretty clear that she can react to, and kill the gun devil. By the scans we can’t tell how the fight went of course, but to the sudden fade to black I wouldn’t be surprised if she just oneshot it.

what’s the assumption being made that proves makima can’t react to gun devil? Because she, literally standing still activating an attack, didn’t dodge bullets?
Click to expand...
-Track refers to Enhanced Senses/ Awareness
- yeah, you'right, check my Above comment, she Still death because power attack
 
But that’s not a good argument. Makima was just standing there while charging up her attack, that’s not an anti feat at all. It would be anti feat if the gun devil shot Makima, while she was actively trying to avoid his bullets. That wasn’t the case.

If anything the fact that she killed it, and trapped it inside Aki just proves that she scales above it. Your argument isn’t very sound.
 
Fixxed said:
1. ... this is the big anti feats if makima can't react MHS speed
Click to expand...
Is not an anti feats, you can read right? Makima doesn't care about being killed by bullets.
Fixxed said:
2.thats not a Blitz, you know the difference between sub Sonic vs MHS speed? Use your logic dude
Click to expand...
That's an outspeed feats where Makima vastly superior than him, indeed it's not a totally blitz because both of them are comparable to the Gun Devil. I don't get it why Denji still cap at subsonic while he has shows many feats that can outspeed such as bullet, even thought his fight with the Gun Fiend is yet being calculated by use common sense Denji's speed should be above subsonic even trascending supersonic. Since he can outspeed bullets from the Gun Fiend.
Fixxed said:
3. Makima smiling, that's not changing anything if makima can't react Gun devil attack. Give the proof if makima not dead again, again, and again after fought gun devil. < Actually we don't have this, because the battle is offscreen. That's why you must Throw this feats to Basket. And change reason to MHS makima.
Click to expand...
Why must I give a proof? You here need to prove things that you claim. I have prove many times for my argument while your argument are based off misconception. Also things that what I'm talking is about Denji that capable to blitzing and overcome the Makima's army. You're blunder right now and shows how denial are you.
Fixxed said:
4. Same with no 3^
Click to expand...
That won't change anything, your sense of judgement is kinda wacky.
 
Comicgyal said:
But that’s not a good argument. Makima was just standing there while charging up her attack, that’s not an anti feat at all. It would be anti feat if the gun devil shot Makima, while she was actively trying to avoid his bullets. That wasn’t the case.

If anything the fact that she killed it, and trapped it inside Aki just proves that she scales above it. Your argument isn’t very sound.
Click to expand...
Yep, I don't know why he still thinking that Makima's first death at the beginning of battle can be considered as an antifeats. Even thought I have provide many scans to debunk it. Guess it will be ad-infinitum fallacy and burden of proof from the opponent. I'm not blaim him but it's the fact based on how he perform his argument.
 
Comicgyal said:
But that’s not a good argument. Makima was just standing there while charging up her attack, that’s not an anti feat at all. It would be anti feat if the gun devil shot Makima, while she was actively trying to avoid his bullets. That wasn’t the case.

If anything the fact that she killed it, and trapped it inside Aki just proves that she scales above it. Your argument isn’t very sound.
Click to expand...
Sure? Give me a reason why makima have high hypersonic first from other character. You can't jump from Sub Sonic to MHS only with "Standing there, Keep smile arrogant,Etc" that's not a argument too

The important thing is,the battle is offscreen, Although in here no one have CSM databook? Probably Gun devil get explained In databook
 
EinelRendezvous said:
Yep, I don't know why he still thinking that Makima's first death at the beginning of battle can be considered as an antifeats. Even thought I have provide many scans to debunk it. Guess it will be ad-infinitum fallacy and burden of proof from the opponent. I'm not blaim him but it's the fact based on how he perform his argument.
Click to expand...
Oh wow...

EinelRendezvous said:
Is not an anti feats, you can read right? Makima doesn't care about being killed by bullets.

That's an outspeed feats where Makima vastly superior than him, indeed it's not a totally blitz because both of them are comparable to the Gun Devil. I don't get it why Denji still cap at subsonic while he has shows many feats that can outspeed such as bullet, even thought his fight with the Gun Fiend is yet being calculated by use common sense Denji's speed should be above subsonic even trascending supersonic. Since he can outspeed bullets from the Gun Fiend.

.
Click to expand...
That's only get rating far higher "sub Sonic far Higher" not be MHS rating


EinelRendezvous said:
Is not an anti feats, you can read right? Makima doesn't care about being killed by bullets.

That's an outspeed feats where Makima vastly superior than him, indeed it's not a totally blitz because both of them are comparable to the Gun Devil. I don't get it why Denji still cap at subsonic while he has shows many feats that can outspeed such as bullet, even thought his fight with the Gun Fiend is yet being calculated by use common sense Denji's speed should be above subsonic even trascending supersonic. Since he can outspeed bullets from the Gun Fiend.

Why must I give a proof? You here need to prove things that you claim. I have prove many times for my argument while your argument are based off misconception. Also things that what I'm talking is about Denji that capable to blitzing and overcome the Makima's army. You're blunder right now and shows how denial are you.
Click to expand...
THAT'S BECAUSE YOU TRY TO UP MAKIMA TO MHS ONLY WITH A ASSUMPTION, Yeah she win fought again devil gun. but proof it If makima really getting MHS speed in here. Because the battle is offscreen.that's why i still Denying that's feat.

Although i say again again again


You must be have calc other character to supporting Makima MHS speed,

I have completely reread again, You can use scene darkness devil Blitz other character. And makima can shot first attack to him. But for second attack she got attacked first. (Chapter 64-66)
 
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