Harbinger of Roaring vs Horseman of Conquest | Roaring Knight vs Makima (Deltarune vs Chainsaw Man)

[Random-Helper323]

Typically, for a fight to be a stomp the losing party has to have no wincons at all.

 

[Qurbonboev]

This doesn't now mean Makima auto wins, it just means Knight has to travel close

No, it means autowin for Makima

Makima's perception and clairvoyance becomes useable in this,

And she uses them and with new knowledge understands that she needs to run. Is there any reason for her to stay in her place(where she can be killed) instead of teleporting for hundred of kilometres?

 

[Arkenis]

No, it means autowin for Makima

It does not.

And she uses them and with new knowledge understands that she needs to run. Is there any reason for her to stay in her place(where she can be killed) instead of teleporting for hundred of kilometres?

No. Which makes this a fight where their mentality matters. Still besides the Gun Devil, I can't think of a time where she kept running away from a fight, but if you remember that tell us. Otherwise, she'd stay around the area. All Knight needs is getting in close, Makima still has to run down her minions and hax to see which works, which is precisely what she did on Gun Devil and Pochita.

 

[Qurbonboev]

No

Then it's autowin.

Still besides the Gun Devil, I can't think of a time where she kept running away from a fight, but if you remember that tell us

Knight is stronger than 100% Gun Devil, and actually can kill Makima. She isn't staying at same place

 

[Arkenis]

Knight is stronger than 100% Gun Devil, and actually can kill Makima. She isn't staying at same place

Show a time when she decided to flee hundreds of km like you said. I only think she'd stay around and use her minions or people as fodder until one of her hax works.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Show a time when she decided to flee hundreds of km like you said. I only think she'd stay around and use her minions or people as fodder until one of her hax works.

How much she actually did flee though?

 

[Qurbonboev]

only think she'd stay around and use her minions or people as fodder until one of her hax works.

And by stay around you mean what exactly? She won't try to get away from Knight actively if Knight is hundred of meters away from her or what?
And can you list her best haxes again, so I could analyse them all?

 

[Arkenis]

How much she actually did flee though?

What? Can you just show when she's done it.

And by stay around you mean what exactly? She won't try to get away from Knight actively if Knight is hundred of meters away from her or what?
And can you list her best haxes again, so I could analyse them all?

Within SBA range. And you can go up a couple comments I listed a couple things she could use as win cons that Knight doesn't resist but also could avoid.

 

[Qurbonboev]

What? Can you just show when she's done it.

You said she was running away from fight with Gun devil. I am asking by how much she ran away from Gun.

Within SBA range

Why tf she would care about sum SBA?
I am asking only one thing: "Knight charges towards her from 4 km. Would she try to run away before she in range of Knight magic(let's say 100 meters) or not?" Essentially, it's only relevant question here

 

[Arkenis]

You said she was running away from fight with Gun devil. I am asking by how much she ran away from Gun.

I did? She didn't run away though, she just started out far away.

I am asking only one thing: "Knight charges towards her from 4 km. Would she try to run away before she in range of Knight magic(let's say 100 meters) or not?" Essentially, it's only relevant question here

Because she has no reason to go further away, she can always operate within that distance and be fine. This is why I am asking you when has she run away? If you can't provide that, then I see no reason Makima wouldn't keep to SBA distance.

 

[Qurbonboev]

I did? She didn't run away though, she just started out far away.

You did say that she was running away from Gun.

Still besides the Gun Devil, I can't think of a time where she kept running away from a fight

Because she has no reason to go further away, she can always operate within that distance and be fine

So she wouldn't try to run away from Knight or I misinterpreting you here?

 

[Arkenis]

So she wouldn't try to run away from Knight or I misinterpreting you here?

Not by hundreds of km. Only beyond what she knows about Knight.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Not by hundreds of km. Only beyond what she knows about Knight.

So she knows that Knight range is 100 m. Will she just TP by 2-3 kilometres or not?

 

[Arkenis]

So she knows that Knight range is 100 m. Will she just TP by 2-3 kilometres or not?

She could just jump around or tp yeah.

 

[Qurbonboev]

She could just jump around or tp yeah.

And she would use it, I assume, since there no reasons at all for her to engage dangerous opponent like Knight in close range. Knight isn't Pochita

 

[Arkenis]

And she would use it, I assume, since there no reasons at all for her to engage dangerous opponent like Knight in close range. Knight isn't Pochita

She kept her distance with Pochita and let her minions fight him. Would go the same way here.

 

[Qurbonboev]

She kept her distance with Pochita and let her minions fight him. Would go the same way here.

How much distance she would keep here?

 

[Arkenis]

How much distance she would keep here?

Anything above 100m since she knows that's his max range

 

[Qurbonboev]

Anything above 100m since she knows that's his max range

Bruh. So she starts from 4 km, and whenever Knight tries to approach her, she would just teleport away from her. How tf its not a stomp in your opinion?

 

[Arkenis]

Bruh. So she starts from 4 km, and whenever Knight tries to approach her, she would just teleport away from her. How tf its not a stomp in your opinion?

Makima's win cons are potentially summoning a devil that can incap or kill Knight. Requires her to use up her arsenal as Knight mows it all down and potentially pick one that'll work 100%. Knight merely needs to get in range and TK her, soul attack her, or reg neg her. Teleporting doesn't make it a stomp, it makes Knight's win cons harder to hit while Makima's having to use up her minions until she finally picks one that works.

 

[Qurbonboev]

Knight merely needs to get in range and TK her, soul attack her, or reg neg her

It wouldn't be impossible to her to get in range. Makima would always TP faster than Knight would be able to find and close distance.

Makima's having to use up her minions until she finally picks one that works.

She is perfectly capable of summoning minions in current 100 m range, bruh

 

[Arkenis]

It wouldn't be impossible to her to get in range. Makima would always TP faster than Knight would be able to find and close distance.

You're not controlling her lol, Makima's very nonchalant and chill, she could just not tp and try something else like dodge or just walk away while her devils fight.

She is perfectly capable of summoning minions in current 100 m range, bruh

Can you reread what I'm saying cuz this isn't a response at all.

 

[Qurbonboev]

You're not controlling her lol, Makima's very nonchalant and chill, she could just not tp and try something else like dodge or just walk away while her devils fight.

"Character A could give a change for Character B to win, so it's not stomp in this condition"

Typically, for a fight to be a stomp the losing party has to have no wincons at all.

I would prefer to close this matchup for being mismatch. And even if isn't mismatch, it's already 4 pages deep, without much progress (so new user input would be unlikely). So I would prefer to start this matchup somewhere in the future, if it isn't stomp

 

[Arkenis]

"Character A could give a change for Character B to win, so it's not stomp in this condition"

And my other issue was the range? Because, again you're manipulation of the match's rules make it so Knight knows what Makima's abilities and that she can summon. You then argued Knight would use Class G TK to pin her down and THEN Knight also has soul hax which all of you argued would work.

Nothing changes for speed of Makima and her minions at all, they remain at same level they were before. But there is still a problem of this:
Main feat for scaling is Katana Man sword dash. Quanxi can blitz Katana Man. Makima can blitz Quanxi and her group. Since Quanxi and Katana Man(and they peers in speed) are inferior in speed to Makima, they would remain inferior in speed to Makima(and subsequently Knight). Summons, who can scale directly to Makima/outspeed her, would have equal speed to Knight/outspeed Knight. But number of such summons is very limited. Besides things like 1000 year spear would be too weak to do anything to Knight.
Seemingly Hell Demon is main viable wincon.


She doesn't know exact abilities, but knows about them being potentially very dangerous. Knight can produce danmaku in ridiculous amounts, so she would be able to kill most summons and with TK maintain distance between her and minions.
If Hell Devil come close but Knight managed to notice it, TK+Teleportation+Shapeshifting(actively used for dodging)+Danmaku would stop attempt at BFR.
So Makima would need to actively distract Knight with minions, and try to blitz/sneak attack her with dangerous summons(like Hell). All while under danmaku and TK, that folds her like a paper.

Remember this? How you acknowledge and most do, that Makima's summons are practically meaningless because they'll be overwhelmed and one shot by 7B danmaku? And how Makima would need to distract Knight "All while under danmaku and TK, that folds her like a paper."

Plain and simple, you're way is 99% a stomp, my idea of SBA range automatically allows both to fight how they'd fight, leaving the win cons both viable whereas yours limits Makima even doing anything. Now she can actually devise a plan in time before Knight gets too close, set up proper defenses and distractions instead of having to do it "All while under danmaku and TK, that folds her like a paper."

Judging by profile, both of them require some time and setup(creating halo or summoning lower lifeforms), which obviously wouldn't be possible if she is squashed by class G telekinesis.

Or how you acknowledge she requires time to set stuff up? At SBA range, she actually has time whereas in your range limit she doesn't.

 

[Qurbonboev]

And my other issue was the range? Because, again you're manipulation of the match's rules make it so Knight knows what Makima's abilities and that she can summon.

Knight doesn't know minions abilities.

Plain and simple, you're way is 99% a stomp, my idea of SBA range automatically allows both to fight how they'd fight,

If my conditions are 99%, yours are 100% stomp. Character wincons shouldn't depend on whims of opponent in a such degree.

Or how you acknowledge she requires time to set stuff up? At SBA range, she actually has time whereas in your range limit she doesn't.

Some thing require time, some not(like summoning devil hunters).

Regardless, I have said above that I don't want to continue matchup in such a situation

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

what's going bruh

 

[Qurbonboev]

what's going bruh

Plain and simple, you're way is 99% a stomp, my idea of SBA range automatically allows both to fight how they'd fight

We accidentally turned Knight into worse version of Sans. She mauls Makima 99% of the time if fight starts inside Knight range(hundreds of meters). Supporters be saying that putting range at anything other than SBA is unfair and manipulative, so we should use 4 km range. Knight technically does have chance in that scenario, if Makima became dumb and doesn't teleport from someone who can oneshot her with ease. So match still would remain stomp in that case.
If you any good matchups for the Knight, I would hear you(and yes, she does have both physical and spiritual duraneg)

 

[Thunderman101]

bump

 

[Qurbonboev]

bump

Wdym bump. This matchup was decides to be abandoned dje to mismatch.
(Btw, goated PFP)

 

[Thunderman101]

Wdym bump. This matchup was decides to be abandoned dje to mismatch.
(Btw, goated PFP)

thanks, and my bad