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Abeloth and Luke upgrade

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As for this calculatio, the calculation itself seems to be correct, thus The Ones would definitely scale to this.

By extension, Grandmaster Luke and Abeloth would scale as well, although that is with their Force Augmentation abilities only, and not their actual physical strength.

  • Now what about Darth Krayt?
 
Even if they need to amplify their physical strength with the Force, Luke broke Abeloth's ribs which proves their Striking Strength can be equal to their AP.
 
Was Abeloth actively concentrating her Force Powers to create a barrier, and did Luke break through said barrier to break Abeloth's ribs?

Keep in mind that the Jedi/Sith need to actively concentrate in order to use their full force abilities. It isn't a passive ability that is already there from the start.

If Luke's physical strength actually matched his AP, all of the lightsaber duels that are fought by Luke would have been ended instantly due to the sheer difference in AP. However, there are multiple people who are not even close to Luke's power in terms of the Force, and they managed to hold their own.
 
Abeloth doesn't need to actively concentrate her Force powers, she is literally made of Force.

Lightsabers are amped the more powerful the Jedi who wields them. This is basic.
 
Abeloth doesn't need to actively concentrate her Force powers, she is literally made of Force.

  • And Luke (who scales to the other Jedi/Sith, albeit slightly stronger) broke Abeloth's ribs. If a character with Class GJ physical strength broke her ribs, this would mean that Abeloth's durability would directly scale.
    • Luke's major lightsaber duels were against: Palpatine (after resurrection), Lumiya, and Ben Solo (Darth Caedus). I would like to note that Darth Caedus directly matched Grandmaster Luke, and held his own against him. Jaina Solo also directly matched Darth Caedus, and actually defeated him in a lightsaber duel, meaning Jaina Solo scales to Darth Caedus, in turn, scales to Grandmaster Luke in terms of physical strength.
      • The biggest kicker here is that none of the Jedi/Sith I listed were that much stronger physically compared to the Jedi of old, who were only able to match General Grievous physically.
Lightsabers are amped the more powerful the Jedi who wields them. This is basic.

  • And plenty of Jedi/Sith have dueled with Luke via lightsabers and managed to hold their own against him. Those Jedi are not shown to be vastly stronger (physically) compared to the Jedi from back then (Anakin, Dooku, etc).
My main point is that if Luke's physical strength matched the power of his Force Abilities, there would not even be a lightsaber duel because the opponent's lightsabers would not even be effective against him, and all of the duels that Luke faced would have ended instantly. However, Luke managed to duel several Jedi/Sith during his time as a grandmaster, and those duels lasted for a lengthy period of time.
 
Why do you use the term "Class GJ" if noboy uses it anymore?

Regardless, neither of the characters you listed scale to Luke at his absolute peak, which is when he faced Abeloth.
 
The idea that a Force User's Striking Strength would be so pathetic compared to their AP is asinine. If it was, why would they even bother using lightsabers in the first place?
 
As I have stated before, for a Force User to utilize the full power of their AP/Durability, said user needs to actively focus on maintaining their Force Power, whether it would be related to their max AP, or barrier (durability).

Basically, in a lightsaber duel, said Jedi/Sith are actively focusing on their duel,

  • For example, while a character who is rated Multi-Solar System in terms of durability can take a blow who has Multi-Solar System level AP, Luke (and by extent, the rest of the Jedi/Sith) would need to actively put up a Force Barrier in order to endure those attacks.
    • It's also the reason why blaster bolts are fatal to Jedi (despite them being only Small Building level), as well as Grievous matching various Jedi/Sith in terms of physical combat. If the Jedi/Sith really scaled to their Force Powers in terms of physical strength, blaster bolts would do nothing and they would literally stomp all the things they encounter with pure physical strength anyways.
 
"As I have stated before, for a Force User to utilize the full power of their AP/Durability, said user needs to actively focus on maintaining their Force Power, whether it would be related to their max AP, or barrier (durability).

Basically, in a lightsaber duel, said Jedi/Sith are actively focusing on their duel"

I'm pretty sure that's not true. A Jedi / Sith wouldn't even ever need to use a Lightsaber if it didn't scale to their AP.

Blaster Bolts AREN'T lethal to the most powerful Jedi and Sith who actually scale to the best feats.
 
The Everlasting said:
The idea that a Force User's Striking Strength would be so pathetic compared to their AP is asinine. If it was, why would they even bother using lightsabers in the first place?
Click to expand...
Well, Lightsabers are listed at Town level because Obi-wan damaged Grievous.
 
 
I'm pretty sure that's not true. A Jedi / Sith wouldn't even ever need to use a Lightsaber if it didn't scale to their AP.

  • As I stated before, to fully maximize their AP with the Force, all Jedi/Sith need to fully concentrate at that moment in order to do so. Their AP is not passively there, especially in the middle of a duel where their focus is on dueling, and not maximizing their Force Power. Let me give you a couple examples.
    • Grievous vs Anakin/Obi-Wan (also other Jedi). Note that Grievous was well-known as a Jedi-killer despite his maximum feat only yielding Building level at most. Grievous would not even be a threat at all if the physical strength of the Jedi matched their Force capabilities here.
    • Mandalore the Ultimate vs Darth Malak. Even with Malak's Force Augmented physical capabilites, Mandalore (non-force sensitive) managed to beat down Malak, and was a challenge for Revan in terms of physical combat.
    • Boba Fett was also a well-known Bounty Hunter where his equipment and weaponery was able to hurt, and even kill Jedi despite being a non-force sensitive.
    • Why are Luke Skywalker and Abeloth the exceptions to this rule when all of the Jedi/Sith require their utmost concentration to maximize their usage of the Force? Basically, unless said Jedi actively creates a barrier/uses a Force ability, their AP/Durability isn't going to passively be there.
Blaster Bolts AREN'T lethal to the most powerful Jedi and Sith who actually scale to the best feats.

  • Are you sure about this? When has there been an instance where a Jedi/Sith directly tanks a blaster bolt, and has not taken serious damage from it? In fact, almost all of the Jedi/Sith tend to either block, or deflect back blaster bolts with their lightsaber, specifically because those bolts will be deadly if they make contact.
  • The Jedi Massacre back in the Revenge Of The Sith showed us that almost all of the Jedi were massacred when the Clone Troopers betrayed and attacked them with blaster bolts. If their passive durability actually matched their AP with Force Augmentation (which requires the Jedi/Sith to fully concentrate to take advantage of instead of being passively there), that Jedi massacre would not have happened because none of the Clone Troopers' weapons would not work.
There is also the example with Kasim being killed by a temple collapsing on him, as well as Mace Windu being killed only after when he was thrown off Palpatine's building. If their passive durability matched the AP from their Force abilities, the two incidents above would not do anything to them, let alone kill them.
 
"As I stated before, to fully maximize their AP with the Force, all Jedi/Sith need to fully concentrate at that moment in order to do so. Their AP is not passively there, especially in the middle of a duel where their focus is on dueling, and not maximizing their Force Power. Let me give you a couple examples."

This makes literally 0 sense. Why would they even duel if they could just one-shot each other. And if Force Amplification exists, why wouldn't they amplify their powers?

As for your examples... That just means that EU Griveous is strong, not the other way around. Same with Mandalore. Bobba Fett never killed a High 6-A Jedi to my knowledge, and he abuses tech, fail to see how that's a low-end.

Luke broke Abeloth's ribs, that proves that their Striking Strength scales.

As for Blasters... Both Thor, Spawn and Wonder Woman block or dodge bullets on multiple occasions, should we downgrade their durability to Wall level? No.
 
I am not sure about the last two calculations, but the last time I checked, the calcer assumed the speed of the moving ship to be a certain speed (without directly measuring said speed of ship), and based the speed of the characters involved using the speed of that ship. That is considered calc stacking.
 
Both calcs were accepted by the OBD and not considered calc stacking. And if the ships have a stated / known max speed, we can use that. That is not calc stacking.
 
Also, the Jedi Massacre involved nameless fodder Jedi who don't scale to the good feats. Don't act as if any smuck with a Lightsaber scales to a godly avatar of the Dark Side. That's the equivalent of using a Superboy feat to disprove Superman Prime 1,000,000.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Also, the Jedi Massacre involved nameless fodder Jedi who don't scale to the good feats. Don't act as if any smuck with a Lightsaber scales to a godly avatar of the Dark Side. That's the equivalent of using a Superboy feat to disprove Superman Prime 1,000,000.
Click to expand...

What I am pointing out here is that a Jedi's passive durability is not going to be the same as their AP when actively using their Force abilities. Said durability need to be actively maintained via Force Barrier, etc. They are not going to be using their full capabilities with the Force when they are currently dueling w/lightsabers, etc.

Since both Luke and Abeloth utilize the force similar to the rest of the Jedi/Sith, it stands to reason that their durability with the Force needs to be actively maintained instead of just being passively there. Luke breaking Abeloth's ribs =/= Luke having Multi-Solar System level Striking Strength if Abeloth wasn't actively maintaining said Force Barrier to protect herself when Luke's attack landed.
 
They were fighting, why wouldn't that barrier be up?
 
Lina, your logic literally says that the Jedi wouldn't actively amplify their durability when fighting in a life or death battle.

Excuse me, but that is asinine.

And once again, you DO know that Abeloth is literally made of the Force, right? She's the literal embodiment of the Imbalance between Light Side and Dark Side.

And the argument that they wouldn't be able to maintain durability when dueling with Lighstabers is completely dishonest, it totally ignores that Jedi are capable of multitasking with the Force powers. Secondly, if that were true, nothing is stoping a Sith from using a Force Push / Lightning mid duel and one-shotting the Jedi who is currently focused on dueling.
 
Either we say Jedi rarely, if ever, amp their durability in combat or literally every Force user from the weakest of Padawans to Yoda himself are like Wall level. There's literally no reason for them to constantly deflect blaster bolts if they could just no-sell them, no reason for Luke to not just physically mandhandle Jabba himself, no reason for anyone to act anything like they do normally.

I don't know where the idea lightsabers are amped by more powerful Force users came from either. The thing that amps lightsabers is the crystal inside of it, not its user. If the lightsaber is amped by its user then you're saying a Force user as strong as a Jedi Master can only amp their lightsaber enough to take a solid minute to cut through a door.
 
Promestein said:
They were fighting, why wouldn't that barrier be up?
Click to expand...

Because for their max durability with the Force to come into play here, said Jedi needs to actively concentrate on keeping up that barrier up, which means that they won't be fighting/dueling or anything else for that matter.

If they are dueling at that moment, they are not going to be actively concentrating on maintaining that barrier. Again, the whole barrier thing is not going to be passively active.
 
@Lina

That makes no sense. Jedi can make multiple things with the Force, you know? They can perfectly fight and amp their durability, if that's the case.
 
The Force acts a bit different from what you might expect it to act, but that is what Chaos (who is the main guy on Star Wars) told me about this subject.

If your case about this topic is true, this would mean that Darth Malak, as well as all the Jedi/Sith would passively have Multi-Continent level Striking Strength as well as durability, but then they regularly have issues with physically contending with opponents w/much less AP as well as having issues w/attacks much weaker what their durability with the Force suggests.
 
"The Force acts a bit different from what you might expect it to act, but that is what Chaos (who is the main guy on Star Wars) told me about this subject."

Then you are not acting on your own knowledge but rather repeating what someone else said. Ever and I disagree with your assessment and we've pointed out why.

Pretty sure the truth is not nearly as absolute as you're making it out there. Please understand that the High 6-A feats onwards are Top Tier stuff.
 
Ever and I disagree with your assessment and we've pointed out why..

And I have responded to those assessments.

You still have not provided an explanation how General Grievous is able to match Jedi Council members despite Grievous having a vastly lower AP/Striking Strength than what you are implying.
 
General Grevous?, The robot with 4 lightsabers?, Wouldn't he go in the oulier spot since he's a robot with no Force powers.
 
@Griffin

Grievous is a Jedi Killer whose literal sole purpose of existence (Both in and out of universe) is to kill Jedi.
 
I never denied what Grevous was I just said he lacks Force powers at lest in the movie he was in.

I know that, that would mean that made a robot capable of Killing Jedi! Why don't they make more
 
@Griffin

Sorry if I didn't get my point across. I meant that it wouldn't be an outlier for him as it's the centerpoint of his character.

Probably because they'd be expensive as hell. Grievous is a cyborg anyhow.
 
Alright then I understand, it just when you grow up only on the movies they don't give you much to go on. I know he's a threat and he even fought Obi Wan but the guy looks like he's dying every tim he's on camera.

I don't mind him being that high it just they should have went more into his background in the movie as they just call him a cowered. I know is because they don't have much time but at least they could have told us what he was made out off.

I'm not going to argue against it but I just needed more info about Grevous since it isn't much on him in the movie except for his fight with Obi Wan.
 
Also expensive? Please, they built two death stars and all those star destroyers. I'm sure the could make 4 more Grevoses espessually if their that good and could slay Jedi. OvO
 
I only know the movies so I just needed to know but if he's op in the cartoons then I'm not going to argue.

@Cropfist didn't the movies come first? That means he was boosted in the other media not nerfed in the movies.

Anyway I apologise for derailing this thread.
 
Cropfist said:
He first appeared in the 2003 series, and, well....just look at this.
Click to expand...
The link isn't working for me, just tell me what the series is and I go check it out.

Don't want to stay on this subject and drag this thread on.
 
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