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Even the Main Series games are parallel timelines between each other lol.
So it's one of themEven the Main Series games are parallel timelines between each other lol.
Its one of the main game timelines, masters brock is the same as one of the game's brockIt doesen't work like that, is just another timeline and nuff else.
Alternate timelines can have the same version of the character, so?Its one of the main game timelines, masters brock is the same as one of the game's brock
So you agreeAlternate timelines can have the same version of the character, so?
No, because is an alternate timeline lolSo you agree
The whole main series games has multiple alternate timelines, there isnt even a main timelineNo, because is an alternate timeline lol
Yeah, like I said, theres no main timeline, brock exists in possibly one of the timelines of main games, but who knows whatProof? Because even B2W2 cartridges are counted as different timelines from BW ones.
That's just the premise of MD yeah. It's litteraly the same amount of proof as Xeno Goku being an alt timeline Goku.I only came on the thread because I was mentioned on the thread. This was actually shared on the last thread, but you overlooked it for whatever reason. They directly imply in the official Nintendo Power guide for Red/Blue Rescue Team that the world of trainers (from the games) is the same as the human world, which is a canonically different universe from the Pokemon-only world in the Mystery Dungeon game series (albeit same cosmology obviously).
It's very clearly in reference to the games as well considering the caption beneath the heading literally mentions "previous games" in it. There's no argument about one-sided canonicity either like you tried claiming in the last thread for other details because this is just straight up from a Nintendo publication in general. I see literally no reason for Mystery Dungeon not to be canon given the multiple implications and intentions that seem to intrinsically tie it to the main canon.
You do realize by admitting the validity of this point, you indirectly concede on this argument, right? If the world of trainers (previous games like FireRed and Crystal) is the same as the human world, then it's just an alternate universe to it. I don't mean alternate universe in the sense of "not in the same canon," I mean that it's like just another universe in Pokémon's cosmology.That's just the premise of MD yeah.
If Xeno Goku has a statement where a company like Toei comes out and confirms they're in the same cosmology as a different universe but it's not accepted, then that sounds more like a DB problem you should fix on a different CRT. This is proof by example nonetheless.It's litteraly the same amount of proof as Xeno Goku being an alt timeline Goku.
This comes from an official Nintendo publication where a section is describing the relationship between the games and Mystery Dungeon, so it meets the idea here.Proof of canon needs to come either from clear wog or already-confirmedtobecanon works.
That's a non-argument. We've established that there are countless if not infinitely present timelines in the franchise before this thread. In a multiverse where worlds are literally born out of the differences between them, seeing one that's different from the norm shouldn't be a shocker at all.Also the fact that most of its lore is contradicting a big part of what's established doesn't help.
It's not what the scan implies at all.You do realize by admitting the validity of this point, you indirectly concede on this argument, right? If the world of trainers (previous games like FireRed and Crystal) is the same as the human world, then it's just an alternate universe to it. I don't mean alternate universe in the sense of "not in the same canon," I mean that it's like just another universe in Pokémon's cosmology.
The game portrays canon db as a timeline among many. Like a lot of spin offs.If Xeno Goku has a statement where a company like Toei comes out and confirms they're in the same cosmology as a different universe but it's not accepted, then that sounds more like a DB problem you should fix on a different CRT. This is proof by example nonetheless.
That's not what I see in the scans. It's just MD explaining how it works inside of its own lore.This comes from an official Nintendo publication where a section is describing the relationship between the games and Mystery Dungeon, so it meets the idea here.
Seeing a multiversal constant role being drastically changed is a problem. We should definitely stop excusing our own errors under the idea that "multiverse=all errors are legit"That's a non-argument. We've already established that there are countless if not infinitely present timelines in the franchise before this thread. In a multiverse where worlds are literally born out of the differences between them, seeing one that's far different from the norm shouldn't be a shocker at all.
This is once again false. There is an outright reference to Mystery Dungeon's existence from Shauntal in Pokemon Masters, something being proposed to be added in the canon here too. And before you try to use the argument "it's just a book!!!!" (because that's predictable for you to say), you have to remember the way that humans stumbling in the world find themselves in disbelief from the fact there truly is only a world of Pokemon. So no, the connection isn't one-sided like you are trying to mislead others into believing. Also, Hyrule Warriors is accepted as being part of Zelda's canon, but it's just in another dimension, much like Mystery Dungeon. Thank you for proving your standards are just ludicrously high and that by the site's own logic, it should be canon.It's not what the scan implies at all.
It just says that in MD own personnal lore, the trainers are in another universe.
That's no different from a lot of non canon spin off like Hyrule Warriors.
Okay, that's a one-sided canonicity. That's inherently different from Mystery Dungeon's case. Thank you for explaining why your example is objectively a false equivalence.The game portrays canon db as a timeline among many. Like a lot of spin offs.
DM doing it is no different.
Also I already explained how saying "it's so unique no verse can compare" is litteraly just asking all inventions to be validated.
Why would that be the case? Even ignoring what I just shared above, it's not a statement that's made inside of the game. It's just a statement from a Nintendo publication of Mystery Dungeon that explains its relation to the main games. You might want to clean off those tinted glasses.That's not what I see in the scans. It's just MD explaining how it works inside of its own lore.
Arceus is still the creator of everything in Mystery Dungeon, and the Creation Trio has localized manifestations, much like the other universes. Are you saying the roles of Yveltal and Xerneas changing are proof of this like in the last thread. That has never been confirmed as a multiversal constant, just under universes that are incredibly similar to each other where they have the same role. That's deriving a conclusion from something literally never posited as an idea and seems more like your personal headcanon.Seeing a multiversal constant role being drastically changed is a problem. We should definitely stop excusing our own errors under the idea that "multiverse=all errors are legit"
You do know that this wiki uses stuff from multiple different pokemon universes for canon and scaling right? Different universe isn't non canon, and there aren't as many errors as you think. What are the contradictions for PMD being non canonIt's not what the scan implies at all.
It just says that in MD own personnal lore, the trainers are in another universe.
That's no different from a lot of non canon spin off like Hyrule Warriors.
The game portrays canon db as a timeline among many. Like a lot of spin offs.
DM doing it is no different.
Also I already explained how saying "it's so unique no verse can compare" is litteraly just asking all inventions to be validated.
That's not what I see in the scans. It's just MD explaining how it works inside of its own lore.
Seeing a multiversal constant role being drastically changed is a problem. We should definitely stop excusing our own errors under the idea that "multiverse=all errors are legit"
They usually are stronger than before so another key is fineAll I really want to know is if Masters characters should get their own profiles or if the information can just be added onto their main profiles lol
Another profile if you're going to add Masters info.All I really want to know is if Masters characters should get their own profiles or if the information can just be added onto their main profiles lol
Not really, since Pokémon up to now is composite in anything except if there are extremely notable differences like the Low 2-C PMD mons.Another profile if you're going to add Masters info.
We don't do that for the humans tho. Unless you don't see Red has different profiles his different versions. After all, the reason we cross scale the different Pokémon across different universes is because the species are supposed to do the same things even across different universes (based on Masuda's statement), but we don't have such thing for the humans.Not really, since Pokémon up to now is composite in anything except if there are extremely notable differences like the Low 2-C PMD mons.
Tell that to Brock, Cynthia etc.We don't do that for the humans tho. Unless you don't see Red has different profiles his different versions. After all, the reason we cross scale the different Pokémon across different universes is because the species are supposed to do the same things even across different universes (based on Masuda's statement), but we don't have such thing for the humans.
Depends on what you mean as "primary/main canon". Officially, there's no such thing.1. Is there such a thing or group of things that we should consider as a primary/main canon? If so, what is it defined as?
Again, depends on what you mean as "canon". Since my thread isn't about continuity, then we can already say that this wouldn't treat all the works as happening in the same timeline (Even taking version differences in consideration).2. Do we treat all included works as "equally canon"?
It's all about being consistent or not, and the reasons for that. Different heights, weight, why does that matter ? Pokémon are a species, and height and weight should be by far one of the most common things to not be 1:1 between all the members of the species. If something has no reason to be the same among all of them... Then it's just a different thing that can be not very normal in-universe, but that is being chosen by the staff because said heights/weights are better for the story/animation/etc. This is about the whole "different media are better with different things" and people should stop thinking that any difference from the "standard" is a reason for a work to be unable to be used.3. Does this proposition include any proposed approaches to things like the Anime contradicting Pokedex info?
Because for most Pokemon species, most of the time in the anime, details from their Pokedex entries -as well as, arguably stuff from their physiology- are often ignored or neglected. Heights gotten wrong, weight seemingly not checked, & sometimes stuff happening that contradicts Pokedex entries.
In come cases, these "contradictions" can simple be the anime depicting those Pokemon without ever depicting such abilities, typically for reasons that the Pokemon that has it isn't important to the story, or the ability wouldn't further the story.
& in such cases, these absences of evidence could be seen as the anime contradicting the games' Pokedex.
As a TL;DR, for the blog, none of that is "important". The blog is for the setting and the common rules of the multilayered "Pokémon World". Similar things that complement each other can be considered exactly that, complements, while the totally different things are "unique elements" that don't necessarily can be considered valid across the whole "Pokémon World".So how does the content of this blog & proposition handle such matters?
Sorry for any bother, & sorry if any of my questions are problematic.
Considering the entire point of this thread to set Pokémon as having a shared setting across all these media, the answer to this would be no, since the profiles wouldn't count as composite anymore.And wouldn't we have to remove composite profiles, then?
What are you trying to complain about?Why is everyone so focused on slightly changing what we have instead of making new profiles? Just by focusing on profiles I'm responsible for like 20% of the power of the verse.
Accuracy I'd presume.Why is everyone so focused on slightly changing what we have instead of making new profiles?
Considering the state of some of the Pokémon profiles we already have I'd much rather we focused on improving them instead of just adding new ones for the sake of it.
In theory ? Yes, if something isn't clear in the original material, or even just an addition that does not contradict the source material, could be used among the various "Pokémon World" products due to they sharing the same overall setting (In a way, no different to how Digimon works).If I understand this correctly (in practical terms), the idea is that other products/medias can be used as supporting evidence for the main profiles. The exception being details that are contradictory, or if it's not entirely supported by the main canon (Like if one media shows the double team as phasing intangibility, we don't just treat it as such for the rest), right?
Basically what I said in the previous reply. There are things that will need to be discussed to how they are going to be applied here, but at first I would like to to least have the acceptance of the "official word on the Pokémon staff", that is how the series is intended with this multilayered setting with each work/world existing to make the larger "Pokémon Worldview" more rich and complex.If that's the case, I don't really mind. Although it brings some issues to debate over (Like some feats being portrayed vastly different among multiple products, or how most sources align to the 4 moves limit).
This isn't really about individual works, but about Pokémon as a whole. Anything that is approved by Pokémon Company should follow the settings rules and could be assumed to be part of the multilayered Pokémon world, with the contradictions being considered "uniqueness" for some worlds and non-contradictions being used as complementary information. There are some other things to be considered, but shouldn't be different for PMD, Conquest or any other Pokémon product.Although, I don't quite understand how PMD or Conquest, in particular, will be treated here. Also wouldn't this remove the TCG and Detective Pikachu movie from being canon? (Although honestly they probably shouldn't have from the beginning). And wouldn't we have to remove composite profiles, then?
And that is the point of why I wanted help to do the rules. As I explained before, the blog was not made with "Profile indexing" in mind. It was a blog about the Pokémon world as a whole first, that just happens to also help to understand it for indexing proposes (In fact, most of my blogs are made with that in mind). So, everything so far was just to show "this is how the Pokémon 'canon' is officially handled", but as everyone might know, things like "consistent power levels" are things that matters the least for such things, and that is why we need our own canon to help the profile indexing.Same. The most important thing about our indexing efforts is maintaining higher standards for both accuracy and professionalism when keeping track of these characters. And establishing how we treat the canon of the verse is one of the best ways we can assure this level of quality is sustained.
Quality over quantity is the name of the game here. Keep that in mind.