A modest Arceus CRT

[Dereck03]

Unless you can show that lacking the concept of something also implies lacking a soul."

I couldn't prove it. And that Nil's description is way above what you propose for Arceus. So if Nil could get NEP Nature 1, I don't see why believe that Arceus will get Nature 2 when the description and feats you propose doesn't qualify at all.

 

[Sniper670]

I'm confused here.... What does lacking a soul have to do with Nature type rather than Aspect Type.

 

[Dereck03]

I'm confused here.... What does lacking a soul have to do with Nature type rather than Aspect Type.

I would like to elaborate, but I can't right now, the most I can suggest right now is that you read the thread where NEP ratings were changed to the new standards so you can see similar cases and have a better understanding.

 

[Sniper670]

To be honest, that page is anything but clear. Too many different opinions on the matter

 

[Dereck03]

To be honest, that page is anything but clear. Too many different opinions on the matter

I'm referring to this.

 

[Rez]

The rock argument never made sense to me because like…just because it’s a void doesn’t mean you can’t bring things into it.

Aaaand I just got the image of Giratina being an interior decorator for his personal hellscape.

Yeah well their is also the anime's portrayal of distortion world.

Anyway I agree with Nep for true form Arceus.

 

[Sniper670]

This profile was outdate, it is not up to current standard

Okay. So origin forms nep 1

They're Avatars of Arceus, lesser manifestation, more "real" versions of himself that can interact with the verse, they comprise "reality" . But they cannot interact with him even, he embodies the verse (large size 9) but Giratina AE form is still trapped in the Distortion world, Abstract form can't leave and still cannot interact with Arceus. He also exists everywhere , yet it doesn't anywhere(Also Large Size Nep that cannot be affected by nep 1)

Is it not Nep type 2?

 

[Vietthai96]

Okay. So origin forms nep 1

like i said before, at best if I take everything at face value it is NEP1. At this point it is time for staffs to evaluate

 

[Dereck03]

They're Avatars of Arceus, lesser manifestation, more "real" versions of himself that can interact with the verse, they comprise "reality" . But they cannot interact with him even, he embodies the verse (large size 9) but Giratina AE form is still trapped in the Distortion world, Abstract form can't leave and still cannot interact with Arceus. He also exists everywhere , yet it doesn't anywhere

The only thing I see here is HDE and Nigh/Omnipresence.

(Also Large Size Nep that cannot be affected by nep 1)

Eh? maybe I'm wrong but you say because it can't be affected by NEP Nature 1 then it means Nature 2? To make it clear, Nature 2 is not a better nonexistence if not a transdual nonexistence. I don't like to use other characters as examples but look at the following.

 

[Arceus0x]

I agree with this CRT, seems legit

 

[Sniper670]

Eh? maybe I'm wrong but you say because it can't be affected by NEP Nature 1 then it means Nature 2? To make it clear, Nature 2 is not a better nonexistence if not a transdual nonexistence. I don't like to use other characters as examples but look at the following.

Okay.... Nep 1 that cannot be interacted with nep 1 will be layered nep1 then?

Also, If I can prove that the Pokémon world and the Distortion world is a Duality of existence and non existence, Arceus would be transdual as he transcends that. He's the One from which everything originates. Nep Nature type 2?

 

[Dereck03]

Okay.... Nep 1 that cannot be interacted with nep 1 will be layered nep1 then?

Could be.

Also, If I can prove that the Pokémon world and the Distortion world is a Duality of existence and non existence, Arceus would be transdual as he transcends that.

Just because one world is a normal world and the other is a non-existent world does not mean that both are dualities unless it is clearly stated that both are dualities and oppose each other or that there are even dualities in the verse clearly established and not based on assumptions which has never been proven and even more so when the distortion world would barely qualify for Nature 1. In addition, transduality for Arceus was previously rejected.

 

[Sniper670]

Just because one world is a normal world and the other is a non-existent world does not mean that both are dualities unless it is clearly stated that both are dualities and oppose each other which has never been proven and even more so when the distortion world would barely qualify for Nature 1.

This and this

 

[Ego]

I agree with the CRT

 

[Dereck03]

This

This is the only thing that could prove TD yet it would only be to a specific duality instead of all dualities akka Type 1 and the related minimum TD for Nature 2 is TD 2 no TD 1 (I suggest calling DT as TD is outside my area of expertise), but the problem lies in whether the distortion world would be accepted as Nature Type 1. I'm saying it would barely qualify, so I'm being more generous than DT and Yuri who didn't even consider it as NEP at all and in the end the decision will be up to him due to my vague general knowledge about TD.

 

[Sniper670]

Because there are rocks? This is the evidence? Did you forget that Giratina is an abstract being? I'm lost here.... We might as well downgrade him

That's extremely silly and easily dismissible as Giratina's creations. In the games, they're literally a puzzle to his avatar, with moving platforms and all. It was testing the player

Also TD of existence and Non existence = Nep type 2, since he exists outside of both binary

 

[theultimate5105]

This is the only thing that could prove TD yet it would only be to a specific duality instead of all dualities akka Type 1 and the related minimum TD for Nature 2 is TD 2 no TD 1 (I suggest calling DT as TD is outside my area of expertise), but the problem lies in whether the distortion world would be accepted as Nature Type 1. I'm saying it would barely qualify, so I'm being more generous than DT and Yuri who didn't even consider it as NEP at all and in the end the decision will be up to him due to my vague general knowledge about TD.

TD type 1 is literally NEP type 2 if it is based on nonexistence/existence

 

[Dereck03]

Because there are rocks?

That's extremely silly and easily dismissible as Giratina's creations

Also TD of existence and Non existence = Nep type 2, since he exists outside of both binary

TD type 1 is literally NEP type 2 if it is based on nonexistence/existence

You guys will have to get the distortion world accepted as Nature 1 if you want to at least achieve anything. If you think you have new arguments, then the best thing to do would be to call DT who is against it being treated as Nonexistence. As I said previously, I said I would barely qualify. But how much more generous am I being, otherwise it would be the same as DT and Yuri and I wouldn't even consider it NEP.

 

[Sniper670]

Whenever Nep of Giratina comes up, they waive "rocks" in our face and throw it out.

Cool, I brought a human into the void, that means the void is not a void anymore

 

[Dereck03]

Whenever Nep of Giratina comes up, they waive "rocks" in our face and throw it out.

Cool, I brought a human into the void, that means the void is not a void anymore

I don't know what to answer here (Maybe anti feats) since I am not knowledgeable in Pokemon, I just go by what is presented and evaluate if it qualifies according to the standards.
Try to contact those listed here & DT as well.

 

[Thelastmlg]

Aince this thread is about pokemon nep, might as well include giratina then, so it can tackle both issues

 

[theultimate5105]

There are zero anti feats to the nature of the distortion world being NEP

 

[Sniper670]

They're looking more at his Avatar than the nonexistent abstract being, which is the non space, space

The platforms are puzzle created to test the player basically. It leads to his Avatar where you fight to prove your self (or smthn cliche like that, don't remember this part)

But It seems these days objects cannot be put in a void and doing so means it's anti feats for the void

 

[Arceus0x]

i mean the whole point of the distortion world is that its some place where things that break the rules of the universe get put. So maybe the rocks were part of the place that got sucked in and so Giratina just used it to make a platform or two

 

[Sniper670]

Well that's not a convincing argument

We're assuming Giratina needs outside sources to create stuff, which isn't true

Giratina created that place, that applies to whatever you see in them.
The maze is to be solved in order to reach Giratina. So he created it

 

[Sniper670]

Anyway I asked knowledgeable staff about this..... Let's see what they have to say

 

[Faron25]

Giratina has powers equal and opposite to Dialga and Palkia. So he can create everything he want. In a sense he is stronger than them since he alone balance the power of the other two.

 

[theultimate5105]

Yeah Giratina is pretty consistently stronger then Dialga or Palkia.

 

[Arceus0x]

technically yeah, he's been shown to be somewhat above the two

 

[Ego]

Yes giratina is stronger than palkia and dialga yes...

 

[Ego]

Yes indeed...

 

[Thelastmlg]

Well that's not a convincing argument

We're assuming Giratina needs outside sources to create stuff, which isn't true

Giratina created that place, that applies to whatever you see in them.
The maze is to be solved in order to reach Giratina. So he created it

Don't think he mean't he NEEDED the rocks to be sucked, just that they could've if he creating them is not convincing.

I remember a scene in the manga where a portal is open and i think the enviroment is sucked as well

 

[Sniper670]

As mentioned, it's a puzzle to test the player

With moving platforms, are used as navigational means to reach and battle Giratina. Every other path other than the path to Giratina leads to a dead end, and it's impossible to leave without reaching it.
Basically the player went there to prove himself to Giratina to stop the distortion.

 

[Le'garde273]

The maze is to be solved in order to reach Giratina. So he created it

"it's a result of cosmic plot puzzle"

 

[Sniper670]

Uhh..... I don't understand where you getting at

 

[Le'garde273]

Uhh..... I don't understand where you getting at

I mean, the statement "cosmic plot" maybe can be a supportive feats for everything inside distortion world just mere giratina doing to testing the player

 

[Sniper670]

Oh, that makes sense. Tbh, we can go away with nep 1 still, or push for nep 2 if the Giratina/Pokemon reality Duality thing gets passed

But we'll likely leave with nep 1

 

[Zeifyl]

I support NEP (Nature 1 (2, if Distortion World can be proven as Nature 1), Aspect at least 1, 3, and 4, unsure about potential 2 or 5), by virtue of Arceus predating both the physical and metaphysical concepts of reality. No concepts existed for Arceus to have begun existing from in the first place. No space, time, matter, antimatter, mind, body, soul, you-name-it. Arceus pre-dates and created the concepts for each and every one of them. The only things that arguably existed (for lack of a better term) at the time (for lack of a better term) was the chaos, which also pre-dates all those concepts, and the concept of concepts.

I do not support Madness type 3 as Akari/Rei has interacted with Arceus multiple times without going crazy, and it wasn't seen as anything special. Stuff from core series' always trumps stuff from spinoffs.

 

[Arceus0x]

I do not support Madness type 3 as Akari/Rei has interacted with Arceus multiple times without going crazy, and it wasn't seen as anything special. Stuff from core series' always trumps stuff from spinoffs.

Technically we should just not consider it passive. Not to mention Arceus already has type 2 so why not type 3? For all we know he could have just wanted to let Akari and Rei stay by him as he favored them. It's obvious that he wouldn't act the same towards corrupted humans seeking unlimited power

 

[Sniper670]

Pokéverse is a Duality and here is why:

Dialga, Palkia (substance), Lake Trio (Spirit). These make up "existence"

Giratina opposite of substance (immaterial, also lacks spirit). Also here. Better explained here

"But there are platforms"

A puzzle created by Giratina that serves to test the player and leads directly to his Avatar.

Arceus predates and transcends that duality. Existing in neither states, outside of it.

Why? , because everything that happens after Arceus is considered "Creation". Applies to the existent and non existent realities that keep each other in balance(Duality) . He's not physical, nor metaphysical, nor is he non existent. He's everywhere yet, he's nowhere. It's omnipresence plus large size as he embodies the multiverse. So Omnipresence + large size + Nep type 2 for being transcendent of the duality

2. We place there madness manipulation without a type....I guess that's okay.