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A modest Arceus CRT

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Arceus0x said:
Technically we should just not consider it passive. Not to mention Arceus already has type 2 so why not type 3? For all we know he could have just wanted to let Akari and Rei stay by him as he favored them. It's obvious that he wouldn't act the same towards corrupted humans seeking unlimited power
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I suppose a non-passive Type 3 could work.
 
Zeifyl said:
I support NEP (Nature 1 (2, if Distortion World can be proven as Nature 1), Aspect at least 1, 3, and 4, unsure about potential 2 or 5), by virtue of Arceus predating both the physical and metaphysical concepts of reality. No concepts existed for Arceus to have begun existing from in the first place. No space, time, matter, antimatter, mind, body, soul, you-name-it. Arceus pre-dates and created the concepts for each and every one of them. The only things that arguably existed (for lack of a better term) at the time (for lack of a better term) was the chaos, which also pre-dates all those concepts, and the concept of concepts.

I do not support Madness type 3 as Akari/Rei has interacted with Arceus multiple times without going crazy, and it wasn't seen as anything special. Stuff from core series' always trumps stuff from spinoffs.
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What is Aspect in this wiki?
 
Which parts of the person are nonexistent besides being materially non-existent.

Whether mind, soul, concept, information or anything else is non-existent, it needs to be specified
 
Zeifyl said:
I support NEP (Nature 1 (2, if Distortion World can be proven as Nature 1), Aspect at least 1, 3, and 4, unsure about potential 2 or 5), by virtue of Arceus predating both the physical and metaphysical concepts of reality. No concepts existed for Arceus to have begun existing from in the first place. No space, time, matter, antimatter, mind, body, soul, you-name-it. Arceus pre-dates and created the concepts for each and every one of them. The only things that arguably existed (for lack of a better term) at the time (for lack of a better term) was the chaos, which also pre-dates all those concepts, and the concept of concepts.
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He cannot be type 4 as their is no metaphysical information in Pokemon so just 1 and 3 (maybe 2 depending on him not existing in nothingness before he concepts that the LT and CT embodied existed. or 5 depending on how the Lake Trios Spirit is treated)
 
Idk why but i have a hunch that there is something thay could be accounted as that kind of information in some pokemon media, i dunno why.

But yeah, for now, no type 4
 
theultimate5105 said:
He cannot be type 4 as their is no metaphysical information in Pokemon so just 1 and 3 (maybe 2 depending on him not existing in nothingness before he concepts that the LT and CT embodied existed. or 5 depending on how the Lake Trios Spirit is treated)
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Then I misunderstood what 4 was. Oh well. 1 and 3 are fine for sure. I think being without the LT's spirit is a mix of 1 and 3 (mind/soul). Being without Heart would probably be a 5. Only thing I can think of that might be a 5, at least. But I'm not sure if Arceus pre-dates Heart or if he is Heart. IIRC, it's the latter, so no 5 for him, as far as I know.
 
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Iirc the only Pokémon with info Manip is Uxie, and thats type 1

Mirage Mewtwo profile is probably outdated
 
Either it should have or the profile is outdated

He doesn't even have data manipulation, which he should have
 
theultimate5105 said:
He cannot be type 4 as their is no metaphysical information in Pokemon so just 1 and 3 (maybe 2 depending on him not existing in nothingness before he concepts that the LT and CT embodied existed. or 5 depending on how the Lake Trios Spirit is treated)
Click to expand...
He'll get aspect type 2
 
Bump.....

So I asked DonTalk. This is how I explained it:

"He's one with the Primordial Nothingness that preceded creation, whether existence or non existence. Lacks a mind, body or soul as he predates anything and is transcendent /unbounded by these things(which got him low 1C) . Including the dualities established by the Reality and the Distortion world(Existence and Non existence)

What does this qualify as? cos the crt is clusterfuck atm"


Reply From DonTalk:

"From what I remember from Pokémon sources I don't think what's actually said is that clear, so I won't comment on it.
Generally am avoiding Pokémon debates."

I believe that dates back to this thread where Nep Nature type 2 was rejected on the basis that we cannot assume just because he's created from nothing, he's nothing . But that was answered by Arceus himself in PLA as the origin forms are actually Chaos incarnate , which are lesser manifestation of his True Form.
So Basically Nep Nature type 2 will roughly be summarized as this:

-Arceus predates the concepts of the Pokemon verse
-Arceus exists outside and is nonexistent to the Binary of existence(Substance, Spirit) and non-existence(Immaterial, Anti-Substance, nothingness)
 
Yemma670 said:
Bump.....

So I asked DonTalk. This is how I explained it:

"He's one with the Primordial Nothingness that preceded creation, whether existence or non existence. Lacks a mind, body or soul as he predates anything and is transcendent /unbounded by these things(which got him low 1C) . Including the dualities established by the Reality and the Distortion world(Existence and Non existence)

What does this qualify as? cos the crt is clusterfuck atm"


Reply From DonTalk:

"From what I remember from Pokémon sources I don't think what's actually said is that clear, so I won't comment on it.
Generally am avoiding Pokémon debates."

I believe that dates back to this thread where Nep Nature type 2 was rejected on the basis that we cannot assume just because he's created from nothing, he's nothing . But that was answered by Arceus himself in PLA as the origin forms are actually Chaos incarnate , which are lesser manifestation of his True Form.
So Basically Nep Nature type 2 will roughly be summarized as this:

-Arceus predates the concepts of the Pokemon verse
-Arceus exists outside and is nonexistent to the Binary of existence(Substance, Spirit) and non-existence(Immaterial, Anti-Substance, nothingness)
Click to expand...
This means that NEP2 is accepted for Arceus? And Giratina then? NEP1?

edit: ah, I was thinking the last part was from DonTalk. I understand that he don't want to be involved in pokémon debates, but if he is the main expert of NEP we still need his opinion.
 
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Faron25 said:
I understand that he don't want to be involved in pokémon debates, but if he is the main expert of NEP we still need his opinion.
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Well he's out of Pokémon debates so he can't help. He's already given his opinion on the matter
 
Honestly disagree with Nep for giratina because of anime's version of distortion world
 
Rez said:
Honestly disagree with Nep for giratina because of anime's version of distortion world
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What do you mean? Anyway the anime is a story made by different authors than GF. If NEP is reasonable for the games' lore then it should be accepted.
 
Rez said:
Honestly disagree with Nep for giratina because of anime's version of distortion world
Click to expand...
If the Anime version of the Distortion world is different from the Platinum version, it's the Platinum version we go by.
 
Zeifyl said:
If the Anime version of the Distortion world is different from the Platinum version, it's the Platinum version we go by.
Click to expand...
Yep the anime version is significantly different and If we are ignoring the anime's version of it then the abilities that comes from it should be removed too the major one being type 8 immortality for true form dialga and palkia
 
Rez said:
Yep the anime version is significantly different and If we are ignoring the anime's version of it then the abilities that comes from it should be removed too the major one being type 8 immortality for true form dialga and palkia
Click to expand...
the immortality type 8 also comes from the games.
 
Rez said:
because of anime's version of distortion world
Click to expand...
Well, I have no way of explaining that.

Only thing I'll note is that anime released after the games(Primary Canon), so maybe a retcon?

Edit: Before, not after. Anime movie released before the games
 
theultimate5105 said:
the immortality type 8 also comes from the games.
Click to expand...
No the layered type 8 for true forms specifically comes from the movie. The normal type 8 for being space and time respectively will remain but the distortion world stuff needs to be removed.
 
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Rez said:
Honestly disagree with Nep for giratina because of anime's version of distortion world
Click to expand...
Iirc as you can see in bulbapedia page, there is said that in the anime version called reverse world is different than real distortion world, reverse world is counterpart of distortion world in anime version
 
should we just maybe not count it in here then?

It's up to yall who care for the tier 2s and 1s but our accepted canon system is that the game is the main canon and if it is contradicted by secondary canon then we take game canon as priority
 
Rez said:
Yep the anime version is significantly different and If we are ignoring the anime's version of it then the abilities that comes from it should be removed too the major one being type 8 immortality for true form dialga and palkia
Click to expand...
Of course.
 
Rez said:
It's the opposite of the regular Pokemon world, where gravity is in a state of flux as in is different depending on area to area. The main function of anime's distortion world is to correct any imbalances between space and time. It's visually considerably different as well.
Click to expand...
All of this is the exact same as the games (well we don't know the main function of the game distortion world, but that means there is no contradiction there.)
Visuals in the anime are only sometimes different (which could simply be different parts of it)
 
theultimate5105 said:
All of this is the exact same as the games (well we don't know the main function of the game distortion world, but that means there is no contradiction there.)
Visuals in the anime are only sometimes different (which could simply be different parts of it)
Click to expand...
The anime version has gravity. Which means it can't be non existent.
 
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