A little Upgrade(Or A Huge One) For Pokémon God Tiers

[Fixxed]

Such characters typically exist as contradictions within the context of their setting, and abide to dialetheic systems of logic, or are portrayed as existing within a state of single, indivisible wholeness bereft of any separation.


Show me the difference between this and Arceus

You must give the full context

(True General Transduality): A state of being which is qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of binary logic or duality at any level, including the conceptual, standing beyond the scope of all dual systems and concepts regardless of how complex they are. Such characters typically exist as contradictions within the context of their setting, and abide to dialetheic systems of logic, or are portrayed as existing within a state of single, indivisible wholeness bereft of any separation. As space and time themselves can be considered a duality, as well as the distinction between being within/outside spatio-temporal dimensionality’s limitations, this type is reserved for 1-A characters and up.

The character is beyond all dual system so he typically exist as onesess or something like that

Not the character is onesess and he get Transduality

Typically exist. It means being onesess is only one case of many, after character beyond the duality system. Only one case

 

[Fixxed]

You must give the full context



The character is beyond all dual system so he typically exist as onesess or something like that

Not the character is onesess and he get Transduality

Typically exist. It means being onesess is only one case of many, after character beyond the duality system. Only one case

So not everything that being one is would get transduality because onesses is only one case, you must proof the character is unbound by duality system

Just being onesses not enough to get transduality 2

 

[Dereck03]

I don't know why Arceus is argued having TD 2, since only 2 dualities are clarified which is existence and nonexistence, while for TD 2 and 3 being unbound or trascend the whole dual system is necessary and not only an specific set of dualities, only being onesses does not mean he's unbound of the whole dual system. And this makes sense when Pokemon does not show more than one set of dualities. So by default TD 2 cannot be given.

@Antvasima I would suggest calling @DontTalkDT here, I know he is not interested on evaluating this and he's avoiding pokemon stuffs, but here they are having a misunderstanding with many complicated issues, about giving NEP 2 to characters that exist while contradicting the main requirement of Nonexistent Physiology which is that the character must not exist in any form, giving Aca 5 based on assumptions of a character without evidences/proof and the character is not even a genius, you more than anyone else know that for a character to make such assumptions and we can take them into account, it is necessary to be an Extraordinary Genius at least, Giving TD 2 to character from a verse limited to a set of 2 clarified dualities when the main requirement is the whole system of dualities and if a verse does not fulfill this, then tough luck for the verse. Also @Elizhaa should re-examine this again, since as time goes by the OP is adding more and more things with less and less sense and back up with Elizhaa already agreeing, while showing flaws in many of the arguments used.

And don't waste your time tagging me or answering me, I already clarified my disagreement with this thread, I was even more in agreement with the previous one than with this one. Also Pokemon supporters, don't call me the bad guy, the biased against pokemon or the hater (you will know why I say this), what matters here is reliability, everyone can disagree with something.

 

[Ego]

I don't know why Arceus is argued having TD 2, since only 2 dualities are clarified which is existence and nonexistence, while for TD 2 and 3 being unbound or trascend the whole dual system is necessary and not only an specific set of dualities, only being onesses does not mean he's unbound of the whole dual system. And this makes sense when Pokemon does not show more than one set of dualities. So by default TD 2 cannot be given.

@Antvasima I would suggest calling @DontTalkDT here, I know he is not interested on evaluating this and he's avoiding pokemon stuffs, but here they are having a misunderstanding with many complicated issues, about giving NEP 2 to characters that exist while contradicting the main requirement of Nonexistent Physiology which is that the character must not exist in any form, giving Aca 5 based on assumptions of a character without evidences/proof and the character is not even a genius, you more than anyone else know that for a character to make such assumptions and we can take them into account, it is necessary to be an Extraordinary Genius at least, Giving TD 2 to character from a verse limited to a set of 2 clarified dualities when the main requirement is the whole system of dualities and if a verse does not fulfill this, then tough luck for the verse. Also @Elizhaa should re-examine this again, since as time goes by the OP is adding more and more things with less and less sense and back up with Elizhaa already agreeing, while showing flaws in many of the arguments used.

And don't waste your time tagging me or answering me, I already clarified my disagreement with this thread, I was even more in agreement with the previous one than with this one. Also Pokemon supporters, don't call me the bad guy, the biased against pokemon or the hater (you will know why I say this), what matters here is reliability, everyone can disagree with something.

We don't really care if you disagree

Most of this stuff is already accepted

 

[Dereck03]

We don't really care if you disagree

Most of this stuff is already accepted

Thanks for your greatly reply, I also don't really have any reliability on your opinion, and doubt you have any knowledge in Aca, NEP and TD unlike me who has more experience in those fields (tho I'm more into NEP than any other) that's why I'm asking @Antvasima to call @DontTalkDT and @Elizhaa cus I find flaws and by the way, if I'm wrong it doesn't mean you're right. Since I as a regular member only serve to make the staff evaluate something if I see an inconsistency, so you have nothing to worry about since my agreement or disagreement will not be taken into account as well as yours. Of course, there are always exceptions for regular members who already have a lot of reliability.

 

[Sniper670]

I don't know why Arceus is argued having TD 2, since only 2 dualities are clarified which is existence and nonexistence, while for TD 2 and 3 being unbound or trascend the whole dual system is necessary and not only an specific set of dualities, only being onesses does not mean he's unbound of the whole dual system. And this makes sense when Pokemon does not show more than one set of dualities. So by default TD 2 cannot be given.

Again. Existing in a state which is without the dichotomy of self and other, in a state of Oneness devoid of seperation is TD 2

@Antvasima I would suggest calling @DontTalkDT here, I know he is not interested on evaluating this and he's avoiding pokemon stuffs, but here they are having a misunderstanding with many complicated issues, about giving NEP 2 to characters that exist while contradicting the main requirement of Nonexistent Physiology which is that the character must not exist in any form, giving Aca 5 based on assumptions of a character without evidences/proof and the character is not even a genius, you more than anyone else know that for a character to make such assumptions and we can take them into account, it is necessary to be an Extraordinary Genius at least, Giving TD 2 to character from a verse limited to a set of 2 clarified dualities when the main requirement is the whole system of dualities and if a verse does not fulfill this, then tough luck for the verse. Also @Elizhaa should re-examine this again, since as time goes by the OP is adding more and more things with less and less sense and back up with Elizhaa already agreeing, while showing flaws in many of the arguments used.

And don't waste your time tagging me or answering me, I already clarified my disagreement with this thread, I was even more in agreement with the previous one than with this one. Also Pokemon supporters, don't call me the bad guy, the biased against pokemon or the hater (you will know why I say this), what matters here is reliability, everyone can disagree with something.

That's irrelevant because the concept of 2 doesn't exist. Which is why existing in a state of oneness was a case for type 3

 

[Sniper670]

Thanks for your greatly reply, I also don't really have any reliability on your opinion, and doubt you have any knowledge in Aca, NEP and TD unlike me who has more experience in those fields (tho I'm more into NEP than any other) that's why I'm asking @Antvasima to call @DontTalkDT and @Elizhaa cus I find flaws and by the way, if I'm wrong it doesn't mean you're right. Since I as a regular member only serve to make the staff evaluate something if I see an inconsistency, so you have nothing to worry about since my agreement or disagreement will not be taken into account as well as yours. Of course, there are always exceptions for regular members who already have a lot of reliability.

Name the flaws. I'll be glad to hear them. Instead of generalizing them

 

[Sniper670]

So not everything that being one is would get transduality because onesses is only one case, you must proof the character is unbound by duality system

Yes. Cognitive Physiology is type 3 btw. Existing in that state is an example. And that's type 3 type 2 if not tier 1A. You can make a crt to remove it if you disagree

Just being onesses not enough to get transduality 2

It is. Existing in a state of single indivisible wholeness devoid of seperation is type 2.

At this point, I'll repeat its you vs the wiki standards.

And stop using Anos as a blueprint. I'm sure that's your ideology here. You and Dereck

 

[Greatsage13th]

cognitive physiology...?

 

[Sniper670]

Yeah everything become one, not not exist

This is funny and silly in the sense that the 3 entities are avatars of himself. Time, space and nothingness, existed once he created them.


Prove that they existed. If you can't, the door is open for you to leave. You keep repeating the same thing when you don't even know the franchise.


At least read the blog.

 

[Sniper670]

cognitive physiology...?

Shin Megami Tensei.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Shin Megami Tensei.

why is it being brought up here?

 

[Sniper670]

why is it being brought up here?

They fit the same standards for type 3

portrayed as existing within a state of single, indivisible wholeness bereft of any separation

 

[Fixxed]

Yes. Cognitive Physiology is type 3 btw. Existing in that state is an example. And that's type 3 type 2 if not tier 1A. You can make a crt to remove it if you disagree

I've read cognitive physiology, and where it stated type 3 or 2???

It is. Existing in a state of single indivisible wholeness devoid of seperation is type 2.

At this point, I'll repeat its you vs the wiki standards.

Where you get that???
And your argument use a nondual explanation for have TD 2 right
i search for that and get DT statement that nondual is not transdual

https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/comments/51056/

And stop using Anos as a blueprint. I'm sure that's your ideology here. You and Dereck

Ahh where i mention arnos??? I think is you that mention arnos not me or dereck

Which is why in Anos case, we didn't give him immunity to anything and everything.

And thats not my ideology but its the requirement for get TD 2, TRANSCEND ALL DUALITY SYSTEM

Type 2 (False General Transduality): Being qualitatively beyond and superior to the nature of all dual systems and concepts within the scope of an entire level of reality. Any non 1-A (Outerverse level) characters who transcend duality at a basic level would also qualify for this level, as space and time can be thought of as dual concepts, as well as existing within/outside spatio-temporal dimensionality.

 

[Fixxed]

You must give the full context



The character is beyond all dual system so he typically exist as onesess or something like that

Not the character is onesess and he get Transduality

Typically exist. It means being onesess is only one case of many, after character beyond the duality system. Only one case

So not everything that being one is would get transduality because onesses is only one case, you must proof the character is unbound by duality system

Just being onesses not enough to get transduality 2

And this about onesess

 

[Fixxed]

This is funny and silly in the sense that the 3 entities are avatars of himself. Time, space and nothingness, existed once he created them.


Prove that they existed. If you can't, the door is open for you to leave. You keep repeating the same thing when you don't even know the franchise.


At least read the blog.

I read the feats you gave, and not find anything about arceus' nonexistance

Your feats literally says EXISTANCE

 

[Sniper670]

I've read cognitive physiology, and where it stated type 3 or 2???

It's actually type 3

Where you get that???
And your argument use a nondual explanation for have TD 2 right
i search for that and get DT statement that nondual is not transdual

https://vsbattles.com/profile-posts/comments/51056/

Existing before duality ≠ existing in a state of indivisible oneness, aka Taiji. Which is the Pic they use on the Transduality page

And thats not my ideology but its the requirement for get TD 2, TRANSCEND ALL DUALITY SYSTEM

Again.

His nature in that he cannot take binary attributes without assimilating it into something that is neither true or false. The concept of 2, which is the entire basis for duality doesn't work for such character

Which is why existing in a state of indivisible oneness was type 3

 

[Sniper670]

I read the feats you gave, and not find anything about arceus' nonexistance

Your feats literally says EXISTANCE

Yes. That's Arceus. Or you want me to say Existence/Nonexistence, Not nonexistance?

Because we can't identify him within any attributes, we just go with "existence" . You're free to identify him anyway you want

 

[Fixxed]

It's actually type

Just where its stated type 3??

Existing before duality ≠ existing in a state of indivisible oneness, aka Taiji. Which is the Pic they use on the Transduality page

No your argument use nondual for get TD. Just read what DT says, predate DT is just nondual not transdual. So he literally says nondual is not transdual, and taiji is nondual

Again.

His nature in that he cannot take binary attributes without assimilating it into something that is neither true or false. The concept of 2, which is the entire basis for duality doesn't work for such character

Which is why existing in a state of indivisible oneness was type 3

Again, you must read full the context behind it. Its literally says typically exist

You must give the full context



The character is beyond all dual system so he typically exist as onesess or something like that

Not the character is onesess and he get Transduality

Typically exist. It means being onesess is only one case of many, after character beyond the duality system. Only one case

So not everything that being one is would get transduality because onesses is only one case, you must proof the character is unbound by duality system

Just being onesses not enough to get transduality 2

 

[Fixxed]

Yes. That's Arceus. Or you want me to say Existence/Nonexistence, Not nonexistance?

Because we can't identify him within any attributes, we just go with "existence" . You're free to identify him anyway you want

Yeah and the identity of NEP being is not exist, if you identify him being existance than he could not have NEP

Like i says everything just mixed and being one, not not exist

 

[Sniper670]

Just where its stated type 3??

It's type 3. Look at all megaten characters who're 1A.

No your argument use nondual for get TD. Just read what DT says, predate DT is just nondual not transdual. So he literally says nondual is not transdual, and taiji is nondual

Taiji is Transdual.

Again, you must read full the context behind it. Its literally says typically exist

Yes. What about it

 

[Fixxed]

NEP 2 is still nonexistance even if the nonexistance it self is not exist in it

 

[Faron25]

At this point shouldn't be better to give to Arceus NEP1, NEP3 and TD1 and all the other things proposed initially? NEP2 and TD2 can be discussed after, or even in a new thread. This is becoming too chaotic to be followed.

 

[Sniper670]

Yeah and the identity of NEP being is not exist, if you identify him being existance than he could not have NEP

This is silly in that Arceus isnt even a physical being. Nor does he have a soul, nor does he identify as existent, nor nor nonexistent. Everything was One, and that was Arceus, which was neither.

This chaos is what I commonly referred to as WUJI. Creation exists alright, but it's a formless void where seperation doesn't exist. He wouldn't identy as exist, nor will he identify as nonexist. Attributes cease to exist in such a state. Which is the entire nature of Arceus which was why it was placed under the type 3 description

Like i says everything just mixed and being one, not not exist

Okay. Show me scans that they exist

And try to disprove the chaos being something where all things become one

 

[Sniper670]

NEP 2 is still nonexistance even if the nonexistance it self is not exist in it

Yes. The boundary that seperates nonexist from exist doesn't exist.

Also known as type 2

 

[Sniper670]

NEP2 and TD2 can be discussed after, or even in a new thread. This is becoming too chaotic to be followed.

It's better if staff come review all this at once. It's wasteful dividing crts into bits.. Especially when Pokémon crts are Notorious for taking really long to get through

 

[Fixxed]

It's type 3. Look at all megaten characters who're 1A.

Is you that must give the proof, not me that have to search the proof

I've read about cognitive physiology and there not type 3 written in that

Taiji is Transdual.

And your proposal use nonduality for get TD and use taiji for example of nonduality

The meaning of Non-duality :

Non-duality is the recognition that underlying the multiplicity and diversity of experience there is a single, infinite and indivisible reality, whose nature is pure consciousness, from which all objects and selves derive their apparently independent existence

Which fits exactly with Arceus Nature as described earlier.

This fits with Transduality Type 3" NonDuality". TD 2 for characters who're not tier 1A

Taiji. So basically the distinction between self and other does not exist. Everyone comes from him, and everyone is him. But he is NonDual by nature.

So I propose the changes here

 

[Sniper670]

Is you that must give the proof, not me that have to search the proof

You're saying space, time and nothingness existed. Prove they did. You can't, and you're going around in circles.

That's bedside the fact that yih know nothing about the verse, and have completely ignored Executor_N0 blog

I've read about cognitive physiology and there not type 3 written in that

It is type 3. Look at their matches.

And your proposal use nonduality for get TD and use taiji for example of nonduality

You don't even know what you're talking about.


I'll ignore you from now because of that. We wait for staff, since your opinion is as irrelevant as mine when staff come look at it

 

[Fixxed]

This is silly in that Arceus isnt even a physical being. Nor does he have a soul, nor does he identify as existent, nor nor nonexistent. Everything was One, and that was Arceus, which was neither.

Yea because everything was one. Not not exist

Okay. Show me scans that they

Bro you just have to read everything i stated before

About time that spin, about space, about that literally stated as existance

Show me the scans that arceus is nonexist

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah just wanna says

I disagree about NEP 2 and TD 2, there so many misunderstanding there

 

[Sniper670]

Bro you just have to read everything i stated before

About time that spin, about space, about that literally stated as existance

Yes. You know more about Pokémon than we do.

So in your authority, time and space existed already. Nice Job.

Show me the scans that arceus is nonexist

 

[Sniper670]

Yeah just wanna says

I disagree about NEP 2 and TD 2, there so many misunderstanding there

Okay. Take your leave then.

So many misunderstandings you're using headcannon to prove.

 

[Sniper670]

Show me the scans that arceus is nonexist

Simple. Chaos was in a state of formless void were attributes didn't exist, everything was a single existence that was The Heart

The only way you can debunk this is to prove time, space and nothingness existed. And that is something you cannot because Arceus specifically noted on the plates he created them after he came into being.

 

[Greatsage13th]

The only way you can debunk this is to prove time, space and nothingness existed. And that is something you cannot because Arceus specifically noted on the plates he created them after he came into being.

Wouldn't that just be creation....

 

[Sniper670]

Wouldn't that just be creation....

I'm not sure what you mean.

It wasn't like time, space didn't "exist", they didn't have attributes.

It's like a filter of sort. Anything that enters becomes something that isn't the thing that enters. The very concept of being two, is completely rejected in his being. Everything becomes one and that is the Heart.

Which is an example they used under type 3. Being indivisible, wholeness that rejects the notion of seperation

 

[Greatsage13th]

I'm not sure what you mean.

It wasn't like time, space didn't "exist", they didn't have attributes.

It's like a filter of sort. Anything that enters becomes something that isn't the thing that enters. The very concept of being two, is completely rejected in his being. Everything becomes one and that is the Heart.

Which is an example they used under type 3. Being indivisible, wholeness that rejects the notion of seperation

type 1 at most. type 3 is a bit too high of a nudge.

 

[Sniper670]

That's type 2.

Its type 3 only if you're 1A

 

[Antvasima]

Nonexistent physiology has been accepted by Elizha and Gyro, so that's out of the way. They're the only Admins who commented on the crt btw

Likewise anything else besides Transduality Type 2, Nonexistence Physiology type 2 and Acausality type 5, because I changed a few things. Which I'll list below.


Executor_N0 blog has been verified and accepted on the wiki as valid for knowing more about the justification for the god tiers. So I'll leave that here: This is under the explanation for Arceus. You can read through the scans. I'm going to talk about Executor_N0 explanation of the The Heart, derived from the scans about nature of Arceus True Form :

Heart
"When there was nothing else in the world, the Heart was in the middle of a swell of chaos. In this heart, everything was one, time, space, every being were a single existence. After the Heart gained awareness, the world was shaped. It's a single heart that exists beyond time and space and Arceus is its direct manifestation. After creation every being has its own heart, but they are still the same being when looking at the highest level."

The meaning of Non-duality :

Non-duality is the recognition that underlying the multiplicity and diversity of experience there is a single, infinite and indivisible reality, whose nature is pure consciousness, from which all objects and selves derive their apparently independent existence

Which fits exactly with Arceus Nature as described earlier.

This fits with Transduality Type 3. TD 2 for characters who're not tier 1A


Which also fits with the nature of Arceus as a single indivisible whole.

So I propose the changes here

Transduality Type 2(Due to his True Nature of Non Binary as explained above, existing as a single indivisible entity devoid of seperation which fits Arceus as seen above)

Acausality type 5(Same as above, except in relation to the laws that shape reality, including the laws of cause and effect in the universe).

Nonexistent Physiology Nature type 2, Aspect Type 1, 2, 3 and 5(Same as above, except in relation to Existence and Nonexistence and all the concepts like time, space, spirit, etc)

@Elizhaa @GyroNutz

Would you be willing to take another look at this please?

I don't know why Arceus is argued having TD 2, since only 2 dualities are clarified which is existence and nonexistence, while for TD 2 and 3 being unbound or trascend the whole dual system is necessary and not only an specific set of dualities, only being onesses does not mean he's unbound of the whole dual system. And this makes sense when Pokemon does not show more than one set of dualities. So by default TD 2 cannot be given.

@Antvasima I would suggest calling @DontTalkDT here, I know he is not interested on evaluating this and he's avoiding pokemon stuffs, but here they are having a misunderstanding with many complicated issues, about giving NEP 2 to characters that exist while contradicting the main requirement of Nonexistent Physiology which is that the character must not exist in any form, giving Aca 5 based on assumptions of a character without evidences/proof and the character is not even a genius, you more than anyone else know that for a character to make such assumptions and we can take them into account, it is necessary to be an Extraordinary Genius at least, Giving TD 2 to character from a verse limited to a set of 2 clarified dualities when the main requirement is the whole system of dualities and if a verse does not fulfill this, then tough luck for the verse. Also @Elizhaa should re-examine this again, since as time goes by the OP is adding more and more things with less and less sense and back up with Elizhaa already agreeing, while showing flaws in many of the arguments used.

And don't waste your time tagging me or answering me, I already clarified my disagreement with this thread, I was even more in agreement with the previous one than with this one. Also Pokemon supporters, don't call me the bad guy, the biased against pokemon or the hater (you will know why I say this), what matters here is reliability, everyone can disagree with something.

@DontTalkDT

Would you be willing to take a look here as well please?

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

@DontTalkDT

Would you be willing to take a look here as well please?

I'm just going to say @DontTalkDT has already expressed in the past a reluctance to be anywhere near Pokémon CRTs similar to @SamanPatou and tbh I don't blame either of them. I too have pretty much just accepted I can't comprehend Pokémon here anymore, so I can't really give any input on this CRT but I thought I let you know about the situation.

At best I would recommend tagging mods that have expressed some interest in past Pokémon CRTs and knowledgeable neutral members (to avoid a conflict of interest).

With that I'm outta here, peace!

 

[Sniper670]

We might as well not have " over fifty supporters"

Oh well