Sniper670
He/Him- 6,409
- 1,366
INTRODUCTION
Before I begin. I want to clear up a couple of misunderstandings here. And that is in relation to the anime depiction of the Distortion World.
The anime depiction of the DW is entirely different from the games.
Even Bulbapedia has them in separate pages. You can compare them here and here. And it's agreed that by Pokémon Canon hierarchy, Primary Canon holds sway over anything else, so significant contradictions like these cannot be used against the primary canon. Here and Here.
Anti-Matter(Pokémon) ≠ Anti-Matter in Physics
Okay so generally we've been under the impression for many years that Giratina is the concept of anti matter, specifically anti matter in physics. Well, that's false. I'll be using the mainline games for this. There was only one instance, in the mainline games that "Anti-Matter" was ever mentioned, that's here. Truth? That was never mentioned in Japanese translation.
The anti-matter the English version said, makes it seem like anti matter in physics, but that is not what it meant at all. Its Masuda who made that clarification on what that meant , the English version threw it in and never explained it, which is why we've never seen Giratina use irl anti matter ever in the series(Just Look at the justification of Anti matter manipulation on his profile) Back to Masuda. He clarified it as a paradox of space and time(the opposite universe, an anti-world, opposite world by the games). The Universe comprises two things: Substance(physical) and Spirit(Metaphysical), textbook definition of Existence . A paradox of existence is the state of existence which does not exist. Which he further explained here and mentioned here. These are paradoxes. An existence that doesn't exist. Contradictions. That which exists but actually doesn't. Those who ventured into it, didn't feel anything at all, and couldn't even interact with it. A place of nothingness. Even It's Avatars appear can't exist within the real world, appearing as shadows. Although it seems to be able manifest physical form, possibly with the help of the Griesious orb
Conclusion 1
A. Giratina would have NEP Nature type 1, Aspect Type 1 and 3 Material non-existence for being nonexistence itself and being the concept of Nothingness. It both exits, as is a reflection, and does not exists, as it's just a reflection. Giratina lacks spirit(mind and soul) ,
It should also be clarified on his profile that anti-matter is not referring to the anti-matter in physics, but it describes his nature as a paradox of existence. Essentially, he's nothing and embodies the concept of Nothingness. Not antimatter in physics, but anti-existence, anti-reality, also known as Nothingness/Nonexistence. Opposite world, universe, existence, reality etc. Nothingness
B. Giratina should have void manipulation and Creation. It can materialize things out of the nothingness in the distortion world, as a puzzle to test the player
C. Chaos manipulation The Distortion world is a place of chaos. Where the rules of time and space change. The Pokémon world's logic doesn't apply there, which also applies to causality. Giratina has control over the forces of chaos over there, just as Dialga and Palkia have full control over their dimensions.
D. Giratina should have Acausality type 4. The DW exists beyond the concepts of time and space, and runs on a different laws/systems, including the law of cause and effect of the Real world
E. Immortality type 5. It's nonexistent
NB: All these apply to its True Form(The DW) and not avatars.
THE HEART
Executor_N0 blog has been verified and accepted on the wiki as valid for knowing more about the justification for the god tiers. So I'll leave that here: This is under the explanation for Arceus. You can read through the scans. I'm going to talk about Executor_N0 explanation of the The Heart, derived from the scans about nature of Arceus True Form :
THE Heart
"When there was nothing else in the world, the Heart was in the middle of a swell of chaos. In this heart, everything was one, time, space, every being were a single existence. After the Heart gained awareness, the world was shaped. It's a single heart that exists beyond time and space and Arceus is its direct manifestation. After creation every being has its own heart, but they are still the same being when looking at the highest level."
The meaning of Non-duality :
Non-duality is the recognition that underlying the multiplicity and diversity of experience there is a single, infinite and indivisible reality, whose nature is pure consciousness, from which all objects and selves derive their apparently independent existence
Which fits exactly with Arceus Nature as described earlier.
This fits with Transduality Type 3. TD 2 for characters who're not tier 1A
So I propose the changes here
Transduality Type 2(Due to his True Nature of Non Binary as explained above, existing as a single indivisible entity devoid of seperation which fits Arceus as seen earlier)
Acausality type 5(Same as above, except in relation to the laws that shape reality of both worlds , including the laws of cause and effect in the Universe. Likewise predating the laws and transcending them).
Nonexistent Physiology Nature type 2, Aspect Type 1, 2, 3 and 5(Same as above, except in relation to Existence and Nonexistence and all the concepts like time, space, spirit, 18 etc)
Immortality type 5. Upscaling from Giratina
C. List of Abilities For Arceus Profile
1. Fate Manipulation via upscaling from Jirachi.
2. Illusion Creation and Madness Manipulation type 3(replace type 2 with this) via upscaling from Hisuian Zoroark.
3. Passive unconventional resistances to to stats reduction( Reversing effects of stat manip via Contrary, Reflecting the effects of stat reduction via mirror armor)
Before I begin. I want to clear up a couple of misunderstandings here. And that is in relation to the anime depiction of the Distortion World.
The anime depiction of the DW is entirely different from the games.
Even Bulbapedia has them in separate pages. You can compare them here and here. And it's agreed that by Pokémon Canon hierarchy, Primary Canon holds sway over anything else, so significant contradictions like these cannot be used against the primary canon. Here and Here.
Anti-Matter(Pokémon) ≠ Anti-Matter in Physics
Okay so generally we've been under the impression for many years that Giratina is the concept of anti matter, specifically anti matter in physics. Well, that's false. I'll be using the mainline games for this. There was only one instance, in the mainline games that "Anti-Matter" was ever mentioned, that's here. Truth? That was never mentioned in Japanese translation.
The anti-matter the English version said, makes it seem like anti matter in physics, but that is not what it meant at all. Its Masuda who made that clarification on what that meant , the English version threw it in and never explained it, which is why we've never seen Giratina use irl anti matter ever in the series(Just Look at the justification of Anti matter manipulation on his profile) Back to Masuda. He clarified it as a paradox of space and time(the opposite universe, an anti-world, opposite world by the games). The Universe comprises two things: Substance(physical) and Spirit(Metaphysical), textbook definition of Existence . A paradox of existence is the state of existence which does not exist. Which he further explained here and mentioned here. These are paradoxes. An existence that doesn't exist. Contradictions. That which exists but actually doesn't. Those who ventured into it, didn't feel anything at all, and couldn't even interact with it. A place of nothingness. Even It's Avatars appear can't exist within the real world, appearing as shadows. Although it seems to be able manifest physical form, possibly with the help of the Griesious orb
Conclusion 1
A. Giratina would have NEP Nature type 1, Aspect Type 1 and 3 Material non-existence for being nonexistence itself and being the concept of Nothingness. It both exits, as is a reflection, and does not exists, as it's just a reflection. Giratina lacks spirit(mind and soul) ,
It should also be clarified on his profile that anti-matter is not referring to the anti-matter in physics, but it describes his nature as a paradox of existence. Essentially, he's nothing and embodies the concept of Nothingness. Not antimatter in physics, but anti-existence, anti-reality, also known as Nothingness/Nonexistence. Opposite world, universe, existence, reality etc. Nothingness
B. Giratina should have void manipulation and Creation. It can materialize things out of the nothingness in the distortion world, as a puzzle to test the player
C. Chaos manipulation The Distortion world is a place of chaos. Where the rules of time and space change. The Pokémon world's logic doesn't apply there, which also applies to causality. Giratina has control over the forces of chaos over there, just as Dialga and Palkia have full control over their dimensions.
D. Giratina should have Acausality type 4. The DW exists beyond the concepts of time and space, and runs on a different laws/systems, including the law of cause and effect of the Real world
E. Immortality type 5. It's nonexistent
NB: All these apply to its True Form(The DW) and not avatars.
THE HEART
Executor_N0 blog has been verified and accepted on the wiki as valid for knowing more about the justification for the god tiers. So I'll leave that here: This is under the explanation for Arceus. You can read through the scans. I'm going to talk about Executor_N0 explanation of the The Heart, derived from the scans about nature of Arceus True Form :
THE Heart
"When there was nothing else in the world, the Heart was in the middle of a swell of chaos. In this heart, everything was one, time, space, every being were a single existence. After the Heart gained awareness, the world was shaped. It's a single heart that exists beyond time and space and Arceus is its direct manifestation. After creation every being has its own heart, but they are still the same being when looking at the highest level."
The meaning of Non-duality :
Non-duality is the recognition that underlying the multiplicity and diversity of experience there is a single, infinite and indivisible reality, whose nature is pure consciousness, from which all objects and selves derive their apparently independent existence
Which fits exactly with Arceus Nature as described earlier.
This fits with Transduality Type 3. TD 2 for characters who're not tier 1A
Which also fits with the nature of Arceus as a single indivisible whole.
So I propose the changes here
Transduality Type 2(Due to his True Nature of Non Binary as explained above, existing as a single indivisible entity devoid of seperation which fits Arceus as seen earlier)
Acausality type 5(Same as above, except in relation to the laws that shape reality of both worlds , including the laws of cause and effect in the Universe. Likewise predating the laws and transcending them).
Nonexistent Physiology Nature type 2, Aspect Type 1, 2, 3 and 5(Same as above, except in relation to Existence and Nonexistence and all the concepts like time, space, spirit, 18 etc)
Immortality type 5. Upscaling from Giratina
C. List of Abilities For Arceus Profile
1. Fate Manipulation via upscaling from Jirachi.
2. Illusion Creation and Madness Manipulation type 3(replace type 2 with this) via upscaling from Hisuian Zoroark.
3. Passive unconventional resistances to to stats reduction( Reversing effects of stat manip via Contrary, Reflecting the effects of stat reduction via mirror armor)
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