A little Upgrade(Or A Huge One) For Pokémon God Tiers

[Dereck03]

Don't mistaken Arceus the Pokémon, for Arceus, the God.

They're seperate entities. The Transcendent, NonDual entity is the God

Still neither of them has any kind of nonextistence. Only trascendence and transcendence alone is not enough to obtain NEP 2, the other necessary requirement is that the character should completely non-existent.

Don't mistaken Arceus the Pokémon, for Arceus, the God.

They're seperate entities. The Transcendent, NonDual entity is the God

Hex Maniac. Someone who does research on the Distortion World.

I assume it is a character in the game? How do we know that what he said is correct? He is just making a bet, there is no backing behind his words. What intelligence does this character have to claim that?

And this is not related to the thread but I thought I would say it, Giratina Aca 4 does not make sense because it is never mentioned that it operates in difference to cause and effect. It only mentions laws of reality which is not the same as cause and effect.

 

[Antvasima]

Nothing much. Just some misconception about how nep type 2 works, which we've worked through

Gyro didn't comment but Elizha went through my propositions and agrees to "possibly" for Acausality type 5

Okay. What has been accepted here by our staff can probably be applied then.

 

[Sniper670]

Alright. Uhh.... Well I'm not confident in my ability to not mess up with adding this.

Arceus0x can you help me with this?

 

[Sniper670]

Still neither of them has any kind of nonextistence. Only trascendence and transcendence alone is not enough to obtain NEP 2, the other necessary requirement is that the character should completely non-existent.

Arceus is a NonDual entity, he's neither existence nor nonexistence . That's enough for Nature type 2.

Elizha who's knowledgeable about nep 2, has gone through it, so has Gyro.

I assume it is a character in the game? How do we know that what he said is correct? He is just making a bet, there is no backing behind his words. What intelligence does this character have to claim that?

Simple. Because all Pokémon assertions are true.

And yes, the laws of cause and effect being acknowledged as a law is enough for Arceus transcendence.

And this is not related to the thread but I thought I would say it, Giratina Aca 4 does not make sense because it is never mentioned that it operates in difference to cause and effect. It only mentions laws of reality which is not the same as cause and effect.

Arceus comment about the rules of time and space changing is supported by her assertion that the laws of cause and effect is different and irregular. And also the fact that physics and logic laws of the pokeworld do not apply

 

[Arceus0x]

Alright. Uhh.... Well I'm not confident in my ability to not mess up with adding this.

Arceus0x can you help me with this?

just tell me exactly what was accepted by staff first. Afterwards ill ask ant to unlock Arceus and Gira so i can upgrade

 

[Sniper670]

Everything was accepted.

It's just a matter of how to present them on the profiles

 

[Dereck03]

Arceus is a NonDual entity, he's neither existence nor nonexistence . That's enough for Nature type 2.

If you look at the few characters with NEP2 all of them do not exist and have Low degree of TD and some have TD 2. DT had previously said that to have NEP 2, the character in question had to be completely non-existent (which is not shown here) and the lack the binary for arceus is already giving TD 1.

Elizha who's knowledgeable about nep 2, has gone through it, so has Gyro.

I'm knowledgeable of both the old standards and the new ones as well, but yeah I can't compete with staff word.

Simple. Because all Pokémon assertions are true.

This would be enough to take it as a fallacy, where a character who is not even a genius makes a bet or assumes something of the laws of the world, aspects of cause and effect to be taken as true.

Arceus comment about the rules of time and space changing is supported by her assertion that the laws of cause and effect is different and irregular. And also the fact that physics and logic laws of the pokeworld do not apply

Time and space =/= Cause and effect. It's all based on a character's assumption and saying that all pokemon assertions are true. If there is no mention of cause and effect (by a character who knows what he is talking about and not a random assumption) then there is nothing to discuss further.

I will give my opinion anyway. TD 1 is fine, NEP 2 doesn't work because the character in question is not nonexistent at any level and that's why the abilitie is called "Nonexistent physiology". Acausality 5 is based on the assumption of a random character making a bet that cause and effect may be involved without having anything to back it up or credibility, even when in this wiki we take into account the minimum intelligence level of Extraordinary Genius for such claims. Don't be surprised that this could turn into a downgrade soon.

 

[Sniper670]

If you look at the few characters with NEP2 all of them do not exist and have Low degree of TD and some have TD 2. DT had previously said that to have NEP 2, the character in question had to be completely non-existent (which is not shown here) and the lack the binary for arceus is already giving TD 1.

A lack of binary distinction between existence nor nonexistence is NEP nature type 2.

I'm knowledgeable of both the old standards and the new ones as well, but yeah I can't compete with staff word.

Sure

This would be enough to take it as a fallacy, where a character who is not even a genius makes a bet or assumes something of the laws of the world, aspects of cause and effect to be taken as true.

Again. All Pokémon assertions are true. Why? Simple. It's a kid franchise and there's no point in hiding words behind double meanings. It has been that way for decades. Go make a downgrade crt for the myths then.

They're just "myths" right?

Time and space =/= Cause and effect. It's all based on a character's assumption and saying that all pokemon assertions are true. If there is no mention of cause and effect (by a character who knows what he is talking about and not a random assumption) then there is nothing to discuss further.

Time/Space represents creation. Existence. The rules of the multiverse is what Llama was talking about. And heavily supported by her assertion of irregular causality. Also supported by irregular physics and logic

I will give my opinion anyway. TD 1 is fine, NEP 2 doesn't work because the character in question is not nonexistent at any level and that's why the abilitie is called "Nonexistent physiology".

He is. Go back and read. Honestly Im getting tired of repeating myself for the millionth time.

He neither exists nor nonexist

Acausality 5 is based on the assumption of a random character making a bet that cause and effect may be involved without having anything to back it up or credibility, even when in this wiki we take into account the minimum intelligence level of Extraordinary Genius for such claims.

A character who does extensive research on the Distortion world's and her words are not contradicted by the nature of that place and Llama's own claims. This won't fly. You can go ahead and make a downgrade crt for all pokedex entries then

 

[Zeifyl]

I will give my opinion anyway. TD 1 is fine, NEP 2 doesn't work because the character in question is not nonexistent at any level

Okay so... When Arceus began (for lack of a better word), there was nothing. The first thing Arceus did was create the concept of anti-reality (nonexistence). The next thing was the fundamental concepts of reality (existence). There is no statements or indications that Arceus ever applied either concept to itself. So, while you can't assign the label of "doesn't exist" to Arceus, that is only because the label of "Arceus" is assigned to doesn't exist.

Arceus does not exist, from the viewpoint of both existence and nonexistence. Conceptual nonexistence is Aspect 2 (existing without a concept, since it does exist as the Type 1 concept of 'heart'), which Arceus does not meet the requirements for. But it does meet the requirements for Nature 2 (neither existing nor not existing).

 

[Arceus0x]

The first thing Arceus did was create the concept of anti-reality

not exactly, he made the concept of reality and anti-reality at around the same time

 

[Zeifyl]

not exactly, he made the concept of reality and anti-reality at around the same time

I've always understood it as Giratina being older (for lack of a better term) than Dialga and Palkia.

 

[Sniper670]

Okay so... When Arceus began (for lack of a better word), there was nothing. The first thing Arceus did was create the concept of anti-reality (nonexistence). The next thing was the fundamental concepts of reality (existence). There is no statements or indications that Arceus ever applied either concept to itself. So, while you can't assign the label of "doesn't exist" to Arceus, that is only because the label of "Arceus" is assigned to doesn't exist.

Arceus does not exist, from the viewpoint of both existence and nonexistence. Conceptual nonexistence is Aspect 2 (existing without a concept, since it does exist as the Type 1 concept of 'heart'), which Arceus does not meet the requirements for. But it does meet the requirements for Nature 2 (neither existing nor not existing).

Sums it up.

 

[Arceus0x]

I've always understood it as Giratina being older (for lack of a better term) than Dialga and Palkia.

no, there's no indication. The only thing we know is that they were created before the lake trio.

 

[Sniper670]

I think Cynthia mentioned they were all created around the same time. Speaking about the CT

 

[Sniper670]

Anyway nature type 2 for Llama sure. I'm also sure about aspect type 1 and 3. Does type 2 work?? Or type 5 for the Essence?

 

[Faron25]

This would be enough to take it as a fallacy, where a character who is not even a genius makes a bet or assumes something of the laws of the world, aspects of cause and effect to be taken as true.

That phrase comes from the official japan pokémon website. It is part of the pokémon mystery files, a section of the website created added after the release of Sun & Moon, that adds details about the pokémon lore (a lot of details). Unfortunately is only in Japanese, but there are a lot of fan translation on the web. So that phrase about the Distortion World must be taken as true, like anything else present on the website about the games. Here is the link to that specific part.

 

[Zeifyl]

Anyway nature type 2 for Llama sure. I'm also sure about aspect type 1 and 3. Does type 2 work?? Or type 5 for the Essence?

Aspect 2 does not work. Arceus exists as the concept of "Heart". 5... Maybe?

 

[Sniper670]

Sure. Aspect Type 5 for the plates possible?

The essence within the plates are fragments of him. So you'll need to be able to affect his powers on NEP nature type 2 level.

The stones are just vessels he decided to put the essence into. So they share his nature of nonexistence.

What do you think?

 

[Sniper670]

That phrase comes from the official japan pokémon website. It is part of the pokémon mystery files, a section of the website created added after the release of Sun & Moon, that adds details about the pokémon lore (a lot of details). Unfortunately is only in Japanese, but there are a lot of fan translation on the web. So that phrase about the Distortion World must be taken as true, like anything else present on the website about the games. Here is the link to that specific part.

What will I do without the help of the Pokéfans

 

[Arceus0x]

alright finish up the debates and ill try to figure out how to add this whole ordeal properly. NEP conceptless is a pain in the a-hole so fair enough, let's not add it.

 

[Sniper670]

Yup. Giratina will also lose Aspect Type 2

 

[Arceus0x]

Yup. Giratina will also lose Aspect Type 2

oof. Well, better than nothing

 

[Sniper670]

...... And resistance to CM.

 

[Zeifyl]

...why did Giratina ever have Aspect 2? Nothing in Pokemon has been conceptless to date! MAYBE except the chaos!

 

[Sniper670]

oof. Well, better than nothing

Yup. Byebye Llama matches.

It's almost impossible to find anyone with Aca 5 and Nep 2 combination in his tier

 

[Sniper670]

...why did Giratina ever have Aspect 2? Nothing in Pokemon has been conceptless to date! MAYBE except the chaos!

Well..... I did an extensive research on NEP before the crt and I saw several cases of that. So I thought it was a norm

 

[Ego]

Yup. Byebye Llama matches.

It's almost impossible to find anyone with Aca 5 and Nep 2 combination in his tier

It's basically high godly regeneration

 

[Sniper670]

Is it tho?

 

[Ego]

Is it tho?

Well with resistance with CM it kinda is

 

[Antvasima]

What are the staff conclusions here so far?

 

[Ego]

I thought it was already concluded...

 

[Sniper670]

What are the staff conclusions here so far?

Well same. Only issue Gyro had is Acausality type 5. Which I clarified but he never commented

Elizha went through that and is fine with the "possibly" type 5 for it.

You asked us to make the changes. But I'm not sure how to do that so Arceus0x will take care of it

 

[TheGreatJedi13]

The other things accepted seems fine already but acausality type5 currently has 1:1 agreement disagreement from staff so we have to wait for gyro's response so it would be nice to ping him just in case

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Gyro also never commented on Arceus having NEP type 2.

 

[Antvasima]

Well same. Only issue Gyro had is Acausality type 5. Which I clarified but he never commented

Elizha went through that and is fine with the "possibly" type 5 for it.

You asked us to make the changes. But I'm not sure how to do that so Arceus0x will take care of it

Okay. Sorry about being forgetful. I have had a lot of important issues to process IRL.

 

[Antvasima]

Well same. Only issue Gyro had is Acausality type 5. Which I clarified but he never commented

Elizha went through that and is fine with the "possibly" type 5 for it.

You asked us to make the changes. But I'm not sure how to do that so Arceus0x will take care of it

The other things accepted seems fine already but acausality type5 currently has 1:1 agreement disagreement from staff so we have to wait for gyro's response so it would be nice to ping him just in case

Gyro also never commented on Arceus having NEP type 2.

@GyroNutz

 

[Sniper670]

Gyro also never commented on Arceus having NEP type 2.

He only commented on the things he had issues with and for those he wanted to clarify stuff.

 

[Sniper670]

He hasn't been here since Tuesday....
Gotta wait a little longer than

 

[Arceus0x]

Got unsubbed from this thread for some reason

 

[Sniper670]

I've made some changes which will give Arceus full access to Acausality type 5, Transduality Type 2 and Nonexistence Physiology Nature Type 2, Aspect Type 1,2,3 and 5

Check that and update your opinion while we wait for Gyro.