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A Game Called Bullet Hell! (The Lich vs Han Jee-Han)
- Thread starter Litentric_Teon
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1 And? How does he bring others with him?
2 Han can ge out of sealed off realities, that was the great labyrints point.
Teleportation wasn't used during bfr, and Enhanced Senses means that Han won't be caught off guard by the han in the floor.
But again, can you show me where he brings people from outside the gungeon in?
2 Han can ge out of sealed off realities, that was the great labyrints point.
Teleportation wasn't used during bfr, and Enhanced Senses means that Han won't be caught off guard by the han in the floor.
But again, can you show me where he brings people from outside the gungeon in?
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1. Because that's how the Sealing works. And again, BFR.
2. Except you really only proved that he can get out of sub-dimensions.
3. Enhanced Senses aren't shown to work cross-dimensions tho.
No, because that just isn't a thing. But it broke out of the area Lich was sealed in before (got to the Forge from Bullet Hell), so yes, it can do that.
2. Except you really only proved that he can get out of sub-dimensions.
3. Enhanced Senses aren't shown to work cross-dimensions tho.
No, because that just isn't a thing. But it broke out of the area Lich was sealed in before (got to the Forge from Bullet Hell), so yes, it can do that.
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Show the bfr dude. Saying bfr means nothing. His profile says that it works by being close to his portals, which is not happening. Again, can you please link to his bfr?
No. It is specifically sealed off. Normal sub-dimensions are stuff that any member of the abyss can get out of, the great labyrint is specifically made against that.
But since the guy would need for his arm tp travel dozens of meters, it's ample time to react.
You mean the point where he grabs you with the hand? He's hand is twenty meters at most, by the time it's clise to reaching Han he'll be gone from there.
No. It is specifically sealed off. Normal sub-dimensions are stuff that any member of the abyss can get out of, the great labyrint is specifically made against that.
But since the guy would need for his arm tp travel dozens of meters, it's ample time to react.
You mean the point where he grabs you with the hand? He's hand is twenty meters at most, by the time it's clise to reaching Han he'll be gone from there.
Mr. Bambu
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His profile says he opens a portal, and drags you in. I had assumed you looked up a video since this isn't hard to find. But it's very simple. He opens a portal by crashing through otherwise physical surfaces, and drags people in.
Scans.
You're assuming Han is always flying dozens of meters in the air. Meanwhile Lich really just has to allow Han to be near the ground.
Nope. See above kek.
Scans.
You're assuming Han is always flying dozens of meters in the air. Meanwhile Lich really just has to allow Han to be near the ground.
Nope. See above kek.
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@Bambu
Okay, thank you.
And to be fair, Han flies that high in 80% of his fights.
Okay, thank you.
And to be fair, Han flies that high in 80% of his fights.
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And how will he catch Han? Since he isn't in the gungeon, he can easily escape into a pocket dimension, just teleport away or keep flying back because of his speed amps.
...still on a phone but sure, in a bit. It's basic tough. He has a skill that allows to get out of pocket dimension (escape ID) and one that makes him break through it's defenses (Can't rememver it's name, again, scans in a bit.)
Yes, since it's the first tactic he used when he got flight, and consistelty flied in every fight unless he needed not to to win.
Just post a goddamn link or scan, you are the one that is requesting them, so don't be a hypocrete.
...still on a phone but sure, in a bit. It's basic tough. He has a skill that allows to get out of pocket dimension (escape ID) and one that makes him break through it's defenses (Can't rememver it's name, again, scans in a bit.)
Yes, since it's the first tactic he used when he got flight, and consistelty flied in every fight unless he needed not to to win.
Just post a goddamn link or scan, you are the one that is requesting them, so don't be a hypocrete.
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@Risci
No need for the expletives. Perhaps take a break and come back.
No need for the expletives. Perhaps take a break and come back.
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I don't mean it as an offense or anything, but I have asked for scans or citations several times already as is.
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Alright. Perhaps he is gathering them.
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Here is the average skill that allows people to break out of sub-dimensions
Mr. Bambu
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Scans for what? I've explained on several occasions how pretty bad Lich's abilities are. BFR includes him opening a portal on some physical space right under the target and dragging them in. It works through sealed spaces, so it really isn't an issue. Meanwhile, I, too, have asked for scans on powers that seem to be getting twisted and received none.
Assuming he does escape through sealing (should be on profile), then this would ultimately be an Incon since Han just keeps running away and Lich keeps dragging him back into infinity.
Han having "flied" in every match doesn't mean much when he isn't actually fighting in this case. Lich gets sealed back into Gungeon because cursed lol, and it would appear as though Han is victorious. Unless he literally never stops flying, the point is moot.
Assuming he does escape through sealing (should be on profile), then this would ultimately be an Incon since Han just keeps running away and Lich keeps dragging him back into infinity.
Han having "flied" in every match doesn't mean much when he isn't actually fighting in this case. Lich gets sealed back into Gungeon because cursed lol, and it would appear as though Han is victorious. Unless he literally never stops flying, the point is moot.
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Show me the bfr. Just show it. Pretty sure there are plently gameplays, so you can just give me a video and a timeframe for it. I am going to give the scans.
Pretty sure eventually Han would be too strong for him to get close to without his hand being incinirated.
Han would start with creating a pocket dimension and flying up, using his powers in the real world would kill him. After that he would go back to korea, so unless the lich can sense where he is, I don't see how he can bfr.
Pretty sure eventually Han would be too strong for him to get close to without his hand being incinirated.
Han would start with creating a pocket dimension and flying up, using his powers in the real world would kill him. After that he would go back to korea, so unless the lich can sense where he is, I don't see how he can bfr.
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Yes, it is. It breaking just has that effect. Will get scans for that too in a bit.Mr. Bambu said:
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Han will eventually have a barrier strong enough to one-shot Low 7-Cs. Accelerated development is the characters main thing.Huesito88 said:
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Doesn't that make it an AP stomp? Tier based abilities can be restricted though.
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No, because he needs time to become that strong. Not the eventually.Xtasyamphetamine said:
I also doubt that the lich would be able to really know where Han is after he goes back home either,
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Here is the average skill that allows people to break out of sub-dimension. And before you say it, "Barrier is the name they have for the dimension specifically, not an actual barrier.The first image is the standard power, the second is him trying to use the standard skill, and the thrid and fourth is breaking a rift out of the dimension.
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Round abouts 4:30. Lich punches through from Bullet Hell, grabs the Gungeoneer pretty easily, and drags them into the beginning of Bullet Hell.
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That is ridicolouslky easy to dodge for someone who is always flying, has teleportation, is faster and has a bootleg spider-sense.
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Wjat do you want me to scan to show he always flies? It's a basic tactic he employes. I can show you where he mentions how cool it is that he can now snipe, but I would prefer to not go through a 100 chapters to link each fight.
Has he ever tried to use it? And did he have time to actually use it?
Speed amp.
Has he ever tried to use it? And did he have time to actually use it?
Speed amp.
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Also, isn't him grabbing you only possible when you are in a specific area? Doubt it can be assumed that he can grab you from anywhere, bullet hell is in the gungeon to begin with after all, no?
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Except in all the scans you showed he wasn't flying. So it clearly isn't a thing. I believe he can do it, just not that he's literally doing it at all times.
No, he didn't, because it grabs them instantly. Even though they are equal in speed, I assume surprise is a factor.
Not enough from point blank.
Yes, but that's largely game mechanics. Or because when inside of that area, you have something Lich wants. As it says on his profile, he almost certainly has a Gun That Can Kill The Past, being the original creator of the item. At that point in the game, you have a Bullet That Can Kill The Past. That, and of course, the devs don't want you getting sucked in the instant you start and fighting the hardest boss in the game, barring possibly Advanced Dragun and Resourceful Rat, with your pea shooter. For a comparison, imagine how unfair it would be if you fought Ganon the second you started Ocarina of Time.
No, he didn't, because it grabs them instantly. Even though they are equal in speed, I assume surprise is a factor.
Not enough from point blank.
Yes, but that's largely game mechanics. Or because when inside of that area, you have something Lich wants. As it says on his profile, he almost certainly has a Gun That Can Kill The Past, being the original creator of the item. At that point in the game, you have a Bullet That Can Kill The Past. That, and of course, the devs don't want you getting sucked in the instant you start and fighting the hardest boss in the game, barring possibly Advanced Dragun and Resourceful Rat, with your pea shooter. For a comparison, imagine how unfair it would be if you fought Ganon the second you started Ocarina of Time.
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In none of those was he fighting, and in one he was in water.
Yes. But surprising someone with spider sense is kinda hard. And I still don't see why Han can't force his way out.
I... don't know what you are answering right now.
Why is it game mechanics exactly? Him affecting you only if you are at a certain stage shouldn't be just handwaved away for no reason. Not saying there can't be a reason, but give one.
And again, isn't the bullet hell inside of the gungeon? You can't really assume he can affect stuff outside of the gungeon unless there is, again, a reason.
Yes. But surprising someone with spider sense is kinda hard. And I still don't see why Han can't force his way out.
I... don't know what you are answering right now.
Why is it game mechanics exactly? Him affecting you only if you are at a certain stage shouldn't be just handwaved away for no reason. Not saying there can't be a reason, but give one.
And again, isn't the bullet hell inside of the gungeon? You can't really assume he can affect stuff outside of the gungeon unless there is, again, a reason.
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Now that I'm looking into it, he only didn't fly when he was either physically unable due to being in a cave or because he's enemies were littiral fodder and he had prior knowledge.
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To be fair, the first scan Risci showed was before Han knew how to fly. And in the second one, Han was underwater. So neither of those actual give a picture of how frequently he flies, given their respective situations.
He flew when he fought against Yoohwa Shi both times. He flew when he fought against Hyungin I. He flew when he fought against Sanghan Ji. He flew when he fought against Dragoniak. Granted, two of these are during his time as a Low 7-C and beyond, but he does fly in practically every fight.
When he saved Kwon from the Church of Masks, he flew in to rescue her, and taught her how to fly on top of that. When he was going to save Prez, he flew to save her. During battles against enemies of any significance, Han basically always flies.
If you still need scans of his flight, then I'll provide them as I'm on my computer atm. But I'm not sure why this is a point of contention here. Han flies as he fights. It's rather simple.
He flew when he fought against Yoohwa Shi both times. He flew when he fought against Hyungin I. He flew when he fought against Sanghan Ji. He flew when he fought against Dragoniak. Granted, two of these are during his time as a Low 7-C and beyond, but he does fly in practically every fight.
When he saved Kwon from the Church of Masks, he flew in to rescue her, and taught her how to fly on top of that. When he was going to save Prez, he flew to save her. During battles against enemies of any significance, Han basically always flies.
If you still need scans of his flight, then I'll provide them as I'm on my computer atm. But I'm not sure why this is a point of contention here. Han flies as he fights. It's rather simple.
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I legitimantly went through the chapters and he only doesn't fly when he faced mobs he had prior knowledge on and could kill in seconds. The moment he met a monster he didn't know (Fire Golem) he started flying as well.
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Yeah. I'm aware. When he's grounded he's typically fighting some kind of mob. Like those in the Great Labyrinth.
Anyhow, I can provide scans if he would like them.
Also, the resourceful rat, that's oddly accurate.
Anyhow, I can provide scans if he would like them.
Also, the resourceful rat, that's oddly accurate.
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Bump.
Also, we should likely add Preparation to Han's 8-A key since he used the little kitty cat spy things.
Also, we should likely add Preparation to Han's 8-A key since he used the little kitty cat spy things.
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Just for simplicity since the argument is currently "Han flies at all times and never lands and I don't wanna believe BFR" so just
Can this just take place in Bullet Hell? It would make this several dozen times easier and changes literally nothing, just makes this case a lot easier to handle.
Can this just take place in Bullet Hell? It would make this several dozen times easier and changes literally nothing, just makes this case a lot easier to handle.
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I think you guys have been through a bunch of arguments to be fair. Though I think Risci was also making an argument about time acceleration as well, since the BFR relies on the Lich grabbing someone which means it relies on his speed. There's a lot of text up there though. I'm not going back through it all anytime soon, lol.
But sure, changing the location doesn't grant any unfair advantages. So it's not problem.
But sure, changing the location doesn't grant any unfair advantages. So it's not problem.
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XD, I actually can't remember the last time Han was legitimately surprised. Maybe against the swordsman guy who could teleport.
Question, would it make any difference if Han is Low 7-C? I'm honestly curious.
Of course. And thanks for talking about Sanura in some other fight the Lich is having. He's had so many. Such a popular skeleton. Kinda like this guy.
Question, would it make any difference if Han is Low 7-C? I'm honestly curious.
Of course. And thanks for talking about Sanura in some other fight the Lich is having. He's had so many. Such a popular skeleton. Kinda like this guy.
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Well
Depending on AP difference, every hit would turn Lich to paste but in theory no, if that was the only boost. Time heals all wounds, especially when you're rewinding it.
Depending on AP difference, every hit would turn Lich to paste but in theory no, if that was the only boost. Time heals all wounds, especially when you're rewinding it.
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It would also give him access to a few more abilities. Like mind manipulation, his spiritual realm of sorcery, better time acceleration, forced contract of subordination, etc.
Thinking on it, I wonder if it would just force an absolute inconclusive.
Not sure. It's nice food for thought though.
Thinking on it, I wonder if it would just force an absolute inconclusive.
Not sure. It's nice food for thought though.
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The few more abilities might change it. Probably best to leave it at 8-A, though a fair amount of that would be countered. Same tiers are fine since Lich is relatively haxless.
