A farmboy fights a prisoner

[DivineTedrius]

The Hero of Oakvale vs The Dovahkii at High 6-A, speed equalized.

Let's settle the old Fable/TES rivalry with a battle.

Albion: 2

Tamriel: 5

Incon: 0

 

[DivineTedrius]

bump

 

[DivineTedrius]

bump again

 

[Killermoves]

Gonna givenit to the Oakvale hero since the guy can slow down time

 

[Thesuperone342]

So can the Dovahkiin with the slow time shout

 

[KongKing23]

Dovahkiin uses Bend Will and BFR techniques. The END for the farmboi!

 

[Ogbunabali]

This is mid game Dovahkiin he doesn't have Bend Will, idk about Slow Time he might not have it as well I don't know what they consider mid game to mean.

 

[Keeweed]

I believe mid-game does have time slow, but it requires him to shout at the top of his lunges three extremely long words compared to the Hero's whose's instant. I need to do more research on the Hero, but I'm leaning to him because the Dragonborn's only has experience at the very end of the game (can fight the ebony warrior; everyone else the Dragonborn defeated was either dead or comatose up until he fought them).

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah I just read the heroes profile neither of them have anything special (except the Dragonborn's soul tear but once again requires three long words to use and he is massively out skilled here). I probably switch my vote to inconclusive because this either devolves into a slap fight due to both having barely any useful ability, the hero time slows before the Dragonborn can, or the Dragonborn rips out his soul.

 

[Elgb333]

I think Dovahkin's time stop is inferior. He still needs to shout it and he hinself gets affected by the slow motion. Oakvale Hero can tap through it much faster and easier, and unlike Dovahkin, he can still move at his normal speed while using his time manipulation.

So Im going with Oakvale for now.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Pretty sure he should get resistence to time slow / stop since learning the shout inherently grants you the absolute knowledge of it ingraved in your soul, like how he gained resistance to mind manip when he learned the Bend Will shout.

 

[Keeweed]

He didn't gain resistance, Miraak tried to mind hax him way before hand and it failed, the Dragonborn just had resistance for some reason (plot, and probably his dragon soul, but mostly plot)

 

[Ogbunabali]

No he doesn't have resistance before he learned the Bend Will shout. If you go to Solstheim and sleep before you learn the Bend Will shout you will awake working on one of the Miraak's monoliths mind controlled along the other people, which you snap out of, but when you learn the frist word of Bend Will this stopps.

 

[Keeweed]

He could still break out of it, unlike anyone else. Neloth even says you resist it. But the shout did make him more resistance I guess, but that's not enough to give the Dragonborn time resistance, especially since his time shout effects himself (granted a lot of the Dragonborn's resistances are missing because the revisions are slow but I doubt the mid-game key is getting time resistance)

 

[Ogbunabali]

"Knowing a Word of Power is to take its meaning into yourself. Contemplate the meaning of a Rotmulaag. You will become closer to that Word, as it fills your inner self. Will I teach you, Dovahkiin? What Word calls you to deeper understanding? There are three to master: Fus, Feim, and Yol."

When you meditate on Fus you literally gain a buff that makes you stagger 25% less. When you learn the thu'um you gain it's meaning I don't see why learning the time slow shout it wouldn't give the Dovahkiin resistance to it.

 

[Keeweed]

I'm currently at work so I'm probably going to have to go soon, but the Dragonborn isn't resist to fire after getting Yol so I don't see why he would resist time slow

• Auto correct constantly removes the n't from isn't, its so annoying.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Pretty sure that would be gameplay reasons considering that if he would gain frost / fire resistance he could have 100% resistance to those attacks without the use of any exploit using the nord / dunmer racials and enchantments.

 

[Keeweed]

100% is a no limits fallacy, second: gaining the meaning of the words means he can use it to produce a thu'um, not that he resist it

 

[Ogbunabali]

Not 100% in lore 100% in gameplay..... And there are things suggesting that is how it works, Paarthurnax explanation and the Bend Will shout.

"When you learn a new shout, the words become a part of your very being. In a sense, you become the shout." -Arngeir

Also another quote that suggests this.


And also the best example that I think proves this is

One of these Dragon Knights, a sergeant in the Guard, showed me how he could wreathe himself in flame without being burned (though I could feel the heat from several paces away). He then cast a loop of flaming chain around a target dummy and drew it too him, where it was quickly immolated. Finally, one of his subordinates burned another target dummy by literally breathing fire upon it!

• Mythical Beast, Real Powers
  

And one more thing

His philosophy prevailed, largely due to his unshakable mastery of the Voice -- his victory was sealed in a legendary confrontation, where The Calm is said to have "swallowed the Shouts" of seventeen Tongues of the militant school for three days until his opponents all lay exhausted (and then became his disciples).

• Pocket Guide to the Empire, 1st Edition, Skyrim
  

 

[Keeweed]

Sorry for taking so long to get back, the second quote is convincing me, but I don't want to say he resist time manipulation only for him to be confirmed not to. I'll switch my vote to the Dragonborn because he's a lot more likely to get soul hax off now, but I won't be surprised if the Dragonborn doesn't resist time manipulation.

 

[DivineTedrius]

Are you voting for Dovahkiin too @Ogbunabali?

 

[Ogbunabali]

Not voting yet because I'm not 100% sure on what counts for mid game Dovahkiin.

 

[Keeweed]

From getting fus ro dah to him gaining dragonrend, and dawnguard.

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

I´m so favored to Dovahkiin

 

[DivineTedrius]

So for what reason?

Going to need a better reason from King as well since this Dovahkiin doesn't have Bend Will.

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

Dovahkiin´s BFR= a Low 1-C

 

[KongKing23]

One more thing to add is that Slow Time shout is not really Slow Time at all. The description make it a Stop Time ability, but the given gameplay mechanic in Skyrim greatly hindered ability to stop time completely. Dovahkiin can really stop time, which hell even a priest of Akatosh in ESO did with just prayer.

Another thing is that Thu'um as a greater reality warping ability that allows one like Dovah to grain greater control of Time as a concept. Matthew kinda argued for how Dovahkiin already had a degree of concept manipulation greater than our FARMBOI

 

[Keeweed]

Dovahkiin´s BFR= a Low 1-C

I don't think he has that BFR in this tier (but surprisingly I don't think the range is that inaccurate, but it's a dragonborn dlc item)

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah I just reread the Dragonborn's profile it says time stop, so that kinda screws the farm boy once the Dragonborn uses it. I already switch my vote to the Dragonborn but that sets it in stone

 

[ABoogieYesSir]

I mean Dovahkiin will send you to Apocrypha=Low 1-C

 

[Keeweed]

I know that, I wasn't saying the range was wrong, just that it's under his low 2-C powers not his high 6-A key which we're using

 

[KongKing23]

Dovahkiin´s BFR= a Low 1-C

I don't think he has that BFR in this tier (but surprisingly I don't think the range is that inaccurate, but it's a dragonborn dlc item)

A mook necromancer in Skyrim sent people into Soul Cairn, so the BFR can literally mean any summoner's contract/offering and teleportation. A Black Soul Gem alone can help.

 

[Keeweed]

But does Dragonborn have a bfr spell, I don't remember being able to bfr people in Skyrim, granted dispeal Daedra technically has low 1-C range, but that only works on Daedra.

 

[KongKing23]

This issue is gameplay mechanic. Slow Time supposed to stop time, but gameplay mechanic hinders the ability so the Devs have to name its Slow Time. In the book There be Dragons, it directly referred that Dragons casually stop time with Thu'um. The BFR technique here is more than a spell, and it was well-documented by many mages in their dealing with Oblivion. If you go around Skyrim with Banish Living from Apocalypse mod, you will be a god. The BFR basically sends targets into Oblivion where Daedras are omnipotent and omnipresent.

Again, you sometimes have to open aside from gameplay and look into the lore.

 

[Keeweed]

Yeah, I know gameplay is extremely inaccurate but has the Dragonborn canonically had Bfr pre dlc? I know it's something basic wizards do but there are many basic things masters could overlook.

 

[KongKing23]

At mid-game level, I assume Dovahkiin had finished his training with the College and observed necromancers doing things unobservable in Skyrim the game. In this case, we have to assume that Dovahkiin uses a black soul gem and contract an Ideal Master to take the farmboi soul. It is more like an Out-of-game ability referred in the canonical lore sources.

The BFR technique can be varied, but the important thing remains is that a cosmic being must be involved and supported the decision.

 

[Keeweed]

I know lore wise soul trap can steal live souls (Serena steals a bit of yours without killing you) but is that usable in combat (I mean probably but the 'getting your soul ripped out' part makes the bfr unnecessary).

 

[DivineTedrius]

He has a chance at BFR with Wabbjack too I believe. Not that it's a guaranteed effect.

 

[DivineTedrius]

I know lore wise soul trap can steal live souls (Serena steals a bit of yours without killing you) but is that usable in combat (I mean probably but the 'getting your soul ripped out' part makes the bfr unnecessary).

Rii Vaaz Zol

 

[Keeweed]

I know soul tear exists, I was just talking about the Soul Carim bfr due to regular soul trap