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A farmboy fights a prisoner

I see, well I have only one thing to add. This blog creator didn't mention that MK works is fiction made by ex developer who had his own thoughts about lore, so the reader either accepts headcanon of MK or not, he wrote the blog as if his works was some fact found in lore books, I would see no reason to disagree if he was still working when he put this fiction on paper, but I cannot accept that as canon of lore, so we have nothing to talk about left if you are one of people who accepted his fiction as canon.
 
Zhepar said:
C0Da is directly referenced in ESO and prisoners metaphysics as well, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcEdXHPZ_XA from 7:49 to the end, the probability manipution is best explained in vestige profile
Click to expand...
I saw it just now, they did include one piece of that blog, Sotha mentions prisoner that must escape from reality, which would probably be CHIM, but it in no direct or any way points that Vestige or LDB for that matter is quantum being, some more evidence would be nice.
 
The Prisoner Metaphyiscs is mentioned all through out the games.

And you keep saying "MK's works are not canon". First of all not only are his works used and repeatedly mentioned in the games (namely c0da), he is also keep being brought back back to write stuff for them. Case in point he wrote books for both Skyrim and ESO. And secondly this wiki does accept his stuff as canon, so if you want to argue that it isn't feel free to make a CRT and make it non canon.

Until then, as far as this wiki is concerned, it is canon.
 
Ogbunabali said:
The Prisoner Metaphyiscs is mentioned all through out the games.
And you keep saying "MK's works are not canon". First of all not only are his works used and repeatedly mentioned in the games (namely c0da), he is also keep being brought back back to write stuff for them. Case in point he wrote books for both Skyrim and ESO. And secondly this wiki does accept his stuff as canon, so if you want to argue that it isn't feel free to make a CRT and make it non canon.

Until then, as far as this wiki is concerned, it is canon.
Click to expand...
Loremaster of bethesda said himself that devs even read apocypha/player fictions/headcanons and Imperial Library works because TES lore is meant to be open and created by community, I'm fine with that, but not in including it in fight unless devs directly include it ingame.
 
Anyway, regardless of my opinions on canon/noncanon, Hero of Oakvale also has time manipulation and will is far more potent in lore while also being almost limitless, so HoO counters time slow of LDB, he still has physical shield to protect himself from spells/shouts as it blocked every kind of attack to date in game whether it's magical or a strike of weapon.
 
Again. Time stuff won't work, he's immune and it's time stop not slow. Second saying that a physical shield will protect him from everything is NLF. And third it won't, because Dovahkiin has the AP advantage he scales far above a casual 13 petatons, while the Hero of Oakvale scales only to >=15.

Not to mention that the Hero of Oakvale doesn't have anything that can even graze the Dovahkiin.
 
Dovahkiin has time stop, which is far more powerful than the time manipulation that the Hero of Oakvale has.
He only has time slow shout.

Nope, in lore, far more weaker Thu'um user can completely stop time. Not to mention that the last word of the shout is "Eternity".
 
It could imply it being able to stop time but it's not hard proof, just assumptions. What 'in lore, far more weaker Thu'um user can completely stop time' ? Show some evidence for that instead of just stating all as fact.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Again. Time stuff won't work, he's immune and it's time stop not slow. Second saying that a physical shield will protect him from everything is NLF. And third it won't, because Dovahkiin has the AP advantage he scales far above a casual 13 petatons, while the Hero of Oakvale scales only to >=15.
Not to mention that the Hero of Oakvale doesn't have anything that can even graze the Dovahkiin.
Click to expand...
Again with your time stop, you've shown zero proof aside from assumption and disregarded the name of the shout multiple times, I see no reason to believe anything you said, I did not say it will protect him from everything, you said that, I said that it blocked both magic and physical attacks which amounts to physical and reality warping as willpower in Fable is just that, what calc gives LDB 13 petatons? I recall only storm call having quite a bit of power, while HoO scales to Court of Blades levitating sea or ocean above Albion to flood it. Anyway regarding time slow, I just said that HoO can block LDB time manipulation with his own so let's put that annoying argument aside to discuss the fight itself.
 
Besides the fact that the description literally tells us that, the words of power that make it up correspond with it and it's accept on this wiki as such.

Tonal Architecture isn't magic, so it's not blocking that. The calc is on the profiles. And the Court of Blades feat is 15 petatons, also on the profiles.

Dovahkiin >> Greybeards >> a 13 petaton feat just by speaking. And Hero of Oakvale => 15 petatons.
 
The Dragonborn scales to shaking the world which is 13 penatons in his case. The Dovahkiin also has a shield very similar to the farmboy's due to Aruriel's shield. Should point out the Dovahkiin isn't immune to time stop (because 1-A time stop exist in multiple verses), but he is resist to it, so even if his time manipulation was worse he scales to the CoC who can move through stopped time.
 
>1-A time stop

I've heared that some verse has this, still makes 0 sense considering the requirement for being 1-A is being above all spatio-temporal dimensions.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Besides the fact that the description literally tells us that, the words of power that make it up correspond with it and it's accept on this wiki as such.
Tonal Architecture isn't magic, so it's not blocking that. The calc is on the profiles. And the Court of Blades feat is 15 petatons, also on the profiles.

Dovahkiin >> Greybeards >> a 13 petaton feat just by speaking. And Hero of Oakvale => 15 petatons.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you can assume things, all still can't comment on the name of the shout, can't say you are fun to talk with, almost like a robot.

So 13 petaton vs 15 petaton of HoO, LDB > Greybeards is not a number, I can say human > ant. it's not known how much stronger LDB is than all greybeards combined if even stronger and not lower.

You say magic or tonal manipulation in tes, Fable magic is literaly reality warping with willpower of user.
 
Keeweed said:
The Dragonborn scales to shaking the world which is 13 penatons in his case. The Dovahkiin also has a shield very similar to the farmboy's due to Aruriel's shield. Should point out the Dovahkiin isn't immune to time stop (because 1-A time stop exist in multiple verses), but he is resist to it, so even if his time manipulation was worse he scales to the CoC who can move through stopped time.
Click to expand...
What 1A time stop? I'm talking with 6A LDB and his one shout, I don't know what you mean to say about Auriel Shield, be more clear, HoO doesn't have similar shield to Auriel one, idk what you are talking about. Also I'm not talking HoO will hax LDB with time manipulation but counter with his own to fight normaly.
 
Like I said, you liking that is completely irrelevant, that's how it is.

And it shows scale. Powerscaling is a thing on this wiki.

Normal magic in TES is realty warping, Tonal Architecture, the thing the shouts or Thu'um is, is on a completely different level, being able to control the underling tones of the song of Aurbis.
 
Ogbunabali said:
Like I said, you liking that is completely irrelevant, that's how it is.
And it shows scale. Powerscaling is a thing on this wiki.

Normal magic in TES is realty warping, Tonal Architecture, the thing the shouts or Thu'um is, is on a completely different level, being able to control the underling tones of the song of Aurbis.
Click to expand...
Liking what?

It's reality warping the same, you change the world, or are we fighting in TES verse? How would warping reality and changing reality through tonal manipulation be different? It wouldn't.I don't see how that affects the fight.


You also linked powerscaling but I still have no idea what person above mean as 1A time manipulation. Multiversal time manipulation in comparison to like universal or something?
 
I don't think you can actually use time slow to counter other time slows because the Hero would still be slowed by the Dovahkiin's while the Dovahkiin won't be slowed by the Hero's. If the Dragonborn didn't resist time stop that would work but he does. The 1-A time stop wasn't directed at you I was mentioning it to the people saying the Dragonborn is "immune" to time stop, because he isn't. Also I'm pretty sure Auriel's shield has similar lore statements saying that it resist magic and physical attacks and is "invincible", but saying any shield is invincible is a no limits fallacy.
 
SordahonMage said:
It could imply it being able to stop time but it's not hard proof, just assumptions. What 'in lore, far more weaker Thu'um user can completely stop time' ? Show some evidence for that instead of just stating all as fact.
Click to expand...
"The more fanciful tales have them summoning storms and even stopping time." - There Be Dragons

And again, it's not being a hard proof? The meaning of the words are literally what power a shout, as explained by Arngeir. Even the description support this.
 
You not liking that it's time stop is irrelevant. It's been accepted as such, make a CRT if you disagree.

It's not the same, they're not fighting in TES verse they're fighting in a neutral universe which takes care of that. And they are leagues apart because Tonal Architecture is conceptual in nature.
 
These should be discounted as myths and faery tales - There be Dragons

"And again, it's not being a hard proof? The meaning of the words are literally what power a shout, as explained by Arngeir. Even the description support this." As much as rumours are proofs, I did not recall Arngeir saying anything about slow time shout. I would agree if description of shout literaly said 'and time stops' not stands still because that also could imply LDB being hasted to speed where world is moving so slow as if stopped.

"You not liking that it's time stop is irrelevant. It's been accepted as such, make a CRT if you disagree" Doesn't matter if it's accepted on vague assumptions.


"It's not the same, they're not fighting in TES verse they're fighting in a neutral universe which takes care of that. And they are leagues apart because Tonal Architecture is conceptual in nature."

Yeah, using big words like that to give something mundane an exceptional look, reality warping and reality warping, both change the world, if you can't tell me how reality warping of HoO is inferior to LDB thuum based reality warping then duh.
 
"These acts soon became celebrated as the "Powers of Will". After Black annihilated The Court and crowned himself Archo, his Will power had become so great that the world seemed to re-shape itself in accordance with his wishes; cities were erected in mere weeks, and machines were built that ran on Will power alone. "
 
I don't understand much about these things, but I'm pretty sure that conceptual manipulation is extremely more powerful than reality warping
 
SordahonMage said:
These should be discounted as myths and faery tales - There be Dragons

"And again, it's not being a hard proof? The meaning of the words are literally what power a shout, as explained by Arngeir. Even the description support this." As much as rumours are proofs, I did not recall Arngeir saying anything about slow time shout. I would agree if description of shout literaly said 'and time stops' not stands still because that also could imply LDB being hasted to speed where world is moving so slow as if stopped.

"You not liking that it's time stop is irrelevant. It's been accepted as such, make a CRT if you disagree" Doesn't matter if it's accepted on vague assumptions.


"It's not the same, they're not fighting in TES verse they're fighting in a neutral universe which takes care of that. And they are leagues apart because Tonal Architecture is conceptual in nature."

Yeah, using big words like that to give something mundane an exceptional look, reality warping and reality warping, both change the world, if you can't tell me how reality warping of HoO is inferior to LDB thuum based reality warping then duh.
Click to expand...
And yet we have the Storm Call shout, that proves that it's not a mere fairy tail.

Except I'm not talking about the "stand still" part, I'm talking about the last word of the Slow Time shout, which is "Eternity", with it's meaning powering the shout. This is explained by Arngeir:

Arngeir: "You learn a new Word like a master… you truly do have the gift. But learning a Word of Power is only the first step… you must unlock its meaning through constant practice in order to use it in a Shout. Well, that is how the rest of us learn Shouts. As Dragonborn, you can absorb a slain dragon's life force and knowledge directly.
 
SordahonMage said:
"These acts soon became celebrated as the "Powers of Will". After Black annihilated The Court and crowned himself Archo, his Will power had become so great that the world seemed to re-shape itself in accordance with his wishes; cities were erected in mere weeks, and machines were built that ran on Will power alone. "
Click to expand...
This is what magic in TES. And Tonal Architecture is above that.

You told me your assumptions, disregarding the name of the shout.
So let me lay it out

Evidence for:

  1. Official description
  2. Direct correlation with the words that make it up which is where the power and the nature of the shout that comes from
  3. Books have said dragons have the power to stop time
Against:

  1. The name
 
More evidence that a word of power are the one that powers a shout:

Arngeir:"... All Shouts are made up of three Words of Power. As you master each Word, your Shout will become progressively stronger."
 
Waria Kambang said:
SordahonMage said:
These should be discounted as myths and faery tales - There be Dragons

"And again, it's not being a hard proof? The meaning of the words are literally what power a shout, as explained by Arngeir. Even the description support this." As much as rumours are proofs, I did not recall Arngeir saying anything about slow time shout. I would agree if description of shout literaly said 'and time stops' not stands still because that also could imply LDB being hasted to speed where world is moving so slow as if stopped.

"You not liking that it's time stop is irrelevant. It's been accepted as such, make a CRT if you disagree" Doesn't matter if it's accepted on vague assumptions.


"It's not the same, they're not fighting in TES verse they're fighting in a neutral universe which takes care of that. And they are leagues apart because Tonal Architecture is conceptual in nature."

Yeah, using big words like that to give something mundane an exceptional look, reality warping and reality warping, both change the world, if you can't tell me how reality warping of HoO is inferior to LDB thuum based reality warping then duh.
Click to expand...
And yet we have the Storm Call shout, that proves that it's not a mere fairy tail.
Except I'm not talking about the "stand still" part, I'm talking about the last word of the Slow Time shout, which is "Eternity", with it's meaning powering the shout. This is explained by Arngeir:

Arngeir: "You learn a new Word like a master… you truly do have the gift. But learning a Word of Power is only the first step… you must unlock its meaning through constant practice in order to use it in a Shout. Well, that is how the rest of us learn Shouts. As Dragonborn, you can absorb a slain dragon's life force and knowledge directly.
Click to expand...
Something like Mortal Finite Temporary which makes someone experience mortality? We can make assumptions, but word eternity sure could mean that makes something stopped, but also different things like ageing someone perhaps, maybe shouts can be manipulated to produce more complex things.
 
Mortal Finite Temporary literally enforces the concept of mortality on someone, it's how Dovahkiin killed Alduin for good. Otherwise it would've been impossible.

And stop quoting large texts, it makes the thread lag.
 
Something like Mortal Finite Temporary which makes someone experience mortality? We can make assumptions, but word eternity sure could mean that makes something stopped, but also different things like ageing someone perhaps, maybe shouts can be manipulated to produce more complex things.

You are reaching. We know what Slow Time does, we know what the third word of power is, and we know that the meaning of the words are the one that powers a shout. The conclusion that we can take from this is that the Slow Time shout actually stopped time, not slows it down. It's nothing like aging someone or any other things that the game never implies, it just stopped time, that's it.
 
Ogbunabali said:
SordahonMage said:
"These acts soon became celebrated as the "Powers of Will". After Black annihilated The Court and crowned himself Archo, his Will power had become so great that the world seemed to re-shape itself in accordance with his wishes; cities were erected in mere weeks, and machines were built that ran on Will power alone. "
Click to expand...
This is what magic in TES. And Tonal Architecture is above that.


You told me your assumptions, disregarding the name of the shout.
Click to expand...
So let me lay it out
Evidence for:

  1. Official description
  2. Direct correlation with the words that make it up which is where the power and the nature of the shout that comes from
  3. Books have said dragons have the power to stop time
Against:

  1. The name
Evidence:

1.Description that doesn't state it stops time but is vague implication of that.

2.Time Sand Eternity, could mean slowing, stopping, ageing,.

3. Books that wrote it could be rumours, sure Storm Call is true, we even have time slow, we never saw stopped time with that shout.

Against.

1. Name which explicitly has word Slow in it.
 
Again stop quoting large texts.

And we're going around in circles. The profile has Time Stop, if you disagree make a CRT.
 
Anyway, let's return to discussion of fight and not lore battle, because we won't agree to our arguments either way.

Shaking world 13 petatons < levitating sea 15.7 petatons, no info if LDB is stronger than combined thu'um of greybeards.

What else do we have? Speed, let me grab these in a moment.
 
Shaking world 13 petatons < levitating sea 15.7 petatons, no info if LDB is stronger than combined thu'um of greybeards.
What?

Not only did he tank the full might of the Greybeards with no sweat, he killed Paarthurnax who is stated to be stronger than the Greybeards, and the feat the Greybeards did was done just by talking.
 
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