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The Low 1-C evidence seems solid imo, at least enough for a “possibly”
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A Certain Llama Wants In On The Low 1-C club; Pokemon Low 1-C Upgrade for True Form Arceus
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
- Status
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Switch for possibly.
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Agree on a full Low 1-C: @The_real_cal_howard, @Psychomaster35, Maverick_Zero_X, GyroNutz
Agree with a "possibly Low 1-C": @QuasiYuri, @DarkDragonMedeus and @Executor_N0 (if you buy this)
Disagree: @Confluctor
Include me and @Arceus0x given both of us influence in Pokémon threads in last year as well.
I think a straight Low 1-C can be applied tbh.
Agree with a "possibly Low 1-C": @QuasiYuri, @DarkDragonMedeus and @Executor_N0 (if you buy this)
Disagree: @Confluctor
Include me and @Arceus0x given both of us influence in Pokémon threads in last year as well.
I think a straight Low 1-C can be applied tbh.
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Yeah no. Nothing in this entire thing indicates Arceus is superior to space and time. All you've done is prove that Arceus' realm is outside of the dimension of space and time and the real world, as well as being inaccessible to Hoopa. None of that necessitates Arceus being Low 1-C.
In fact, the model showing the dimensions of the Pokémon World depicts the realm of Arceus as simply another world on the same level as all of the others. I find it really hard to believe that this realm is supposed infinitely superior to the others.
In fact, we see Arceus (not the Original Spirit, but Arceus itself) not only existing in its realm, but also causing ripples in its structure and bending it to reach the Pokémon world. Arceus should absolutely scale to its realm. And considering how Arceus fights with Dialga and Palkia, that would make Dialga and Palkia Low 1-C. Aka, it would literally make Space and Time transcend themselves. Which is absolute nonsense.
So no. Low 1-C Arceus is bad. Y'all out of your minds. Stop.
In fact, the model showing the dimensions of the Pokémon World depicts the realm of Arceus as simply another world on the same level as all of the others. I find it really hard to believe that this realm is supposed infinitely superior to the others.
In fact, we see Arceus (not the Original Spirit, but Arceus itself) not only existing in its realm, but also causing ripples in its structure and bending it to reach the Pokémon world. Arceus should absolutely scale to its realm. And considering how Arceus fights with Dialga and Palkia, that would make Dialga and Palkia Low 1-C. Aka, it would literally make Space and Time transcend themselves. Which is absolute nonsense.
So no. Low 1-C Arceus is bad. Y'all out of your minds. Stop.
Jinsye
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Skill issue
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You know we're all mad here, we are all out of our minds!
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Arceus was stomping the CT. all they did was inconvience Arceus with their hax, and by inconvience I mean they did their hax then Arceus decided to ignore it and break through without effort.
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And here caps starts to come.
Arceus isn't just outside space and time lmfao. They're part of its being for one.
Model is just a representation, not the literal thing.
And no. Avatar discussion is for other things. Not to mention that Creation Trio was completely stomped and Arceus can create those without any plate with 0 effort, making them Low 1-C circular scaling.
I really don't see any argument against Arceus which doesn't break this site's own standards lmfao.
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Yeah, same, we have standards, they're in place, get them changed and call us then, yeah?
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- Thread starter
- #173
I love how blatant “beyond” and “transcend” statements somehow only mean “outside space and time”
Should we say the chaos force is only outside space-time then? Cuz I’d love to see a downgrade attempt for Archie Sonic.
Sorry. But that entire response is full of nothing but incredulity, Uber headcanon and being very dismissive. Not much needs to be said to counter that disagreement.
Should we say the chaos force is only outside space-time then? Cuz I’d love to see a downgrade attempt for Archie Sonic.
Sorry. But that entire response is full of nothing but incredulity, Uber headcanon and being very dismissive. Not much needs to be said to counter that disagreement.
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To be honest I don't mind a "possibly" either.
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Possibly/Likely is fine too.
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"Beyond" doesn't stand for transcendence in the slightest. Get your VS-rotted brain out of here for one second. And your transcendence statement is in an entirely different, unrelated context. You have no reasons to apply it to space-time and get Low 1-C out of it.
I don't care what Sonic does. If the reasoning for it is shit, that's not my problem. The reasoning here is shit, which is what we're talking about. Stop your what-about-ism.
Arceus not immediately stomping the CT, with any fight happening at all, is proof enough that Arceus is not infinitely superior to the CT. Whether or not he's weakened doesn't matter, the Plates don't give infinite boosts in power in any media where their abilities are explained. Hell, in the same fight, Arceus was temporarily stopped by Palkia's spatial powers (or Dialga's temporal powers, I don't remember). This is absolutely not something a Low 1-C being should have to deal with, if this Low 1-C is this tier via transcending space-time.
Arceus itself (and not the Original Spirit) being Low 1-C absolutely does not work. The entire argument here is based on very weak proofs from unrelated sources being twisted and forced into this headcanon, while any and all actual interactions we see on-screen working completely against it.
I don't care what Sonic does. If the reasoning for it is shit, that's not my problem. The reasoning here is shit, which is what we're talking about. Stop your what-about-ism.
Arceus not immediately stomping the CT, with any fight happening at all, is proof enough that Arceus is not infinitely superior to the CT. Whether or not he's weakened doesn't matter, the Plates don't give infinite boosts in power in any media where their abilities are explained. Hell, in the same fight, Arceus was temporarily stopped by Palkia's spatial powers (or Dialga's temporal powers, I don't remember). This is absolutely not something a Low 1-C being should have to deal with, if this Low 1-C is this tier via transcending space-time.
Arceus itself (and not the Original Spirit) being Low 1-C absolutely does not work. The entire argument here is based on very weak proofs from unrelated sources being twisted and forced into this headcanon, while any and all actual interactions we see on-screen working completely against it.
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The site is against you fella.
With Arceus not caring at all of what they do. This happens all the time in Pokémon where supposedly infinitely above Legends don't one shot lower tiers. You're ignoring the part of Arceus creating from 0 a CT member with 0 effort because you just don't like Arceus being that strong apparently.
Because this whole comment isn't.
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except he was stomping them completely. Saying it was even a fight is misrepresenting what happened. Also Palkias spatial powers were instantly negged by it.
Jibz
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Also yall can highkey put me down as neutral until i get my questions answered, i agreed way too soon without looking into it at more detail, because it looked fine at a glance and the FRA chain was pretty based. But on a real note, from what i've seen so far it doesn't seem to be L1-C until further clarification can be givem.
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- Thread starter
- #182
Okay first of all, cut the attitude out. Your being unnecessarily rude.
Second of all, beyond in this context is most definitely talking about transcendence when it (and by it, I mean Arceus) clarified that the REALM is beyond space and time. There’s no debating the interpretation.
A being who has the entire verse as a small facet of its true existence is called the god who transcends everything. The context on transcendence here is very fairly clear, and your lack of telling us what this context could otherwise mean just tells us that even more.
Nice try, but it’s not whataboutism when it’s literally the same exact case, and the point in mentioning Sonic isn’t to use whataboutism, but to show the blatant double standard when our site accepts this practice as acceptable means to get Low 1-C. Whether you like it or not, it’s enough to get Low 1-C here.
Sonic proves it, and if you disagree, Better downgrade him and change the standards
There’s such a word called PIS, which it very much is when Arceus shakes their powers off with literally no effort.
Not to mention this was Weakened Arceus. This upgrade is for True Form Arceus, so even if your headcanon had any validity here, it’s absolutely irrelevant to the Arceus this discussion is about.
See above.
Sorry but canon works are not “unrelated”
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No opinions on the threads topic myself still, but I have to agree. No need to be so rude Saikou.
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- Thread starter
- #185
What questions? I didn’t see any questions from you earlier and if you posted some then my bad.
Zencha9
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- #187
Oh okay I see. Superlative?
Pikaman
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What-about-ism is when precedent
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Basically
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- #190
Oh okay so basically he’s asking about why the transcendence is superior enough for an upgrade?
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Yes.
(Posts above Kukui's)
I'm going to ask you to stop this chain of "discussion" right there and cease using the memes to react to posts.
(Posts above Kukui's)
I'm going to ask you to stop this chain of "discussion" right there and cease using the memes to react to posts.
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The transcendence is good enough because
- Palkia is space itself. And space in Pokémon verse extends to also parallel universes and directions (aka axis). So Palkia is the 4D spatial section of the verse.
- Arceus has Palkia in its entirety as a mere fraction of its being. Not just Palkia, but all the CT, meaning the 4D concepts themselves of space-time are nothing but a small piece of Arceus itself.
- Arceus is the god who transcends everything, and this is further shown from Hoopa not being able to access Arceus' realm while it could with CT.
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- Thread starter
- #193
This^
And to explain Hoopa a little more, Hoopas rings, which use infinite power, could only forcibly interact with the dimensions of the Creation Trio when using it’s true form and power, Hoopa Unbound.
But even as Unbound, Hoopa can’t in any way interact with Arceus’s dimension, proven by Ghris sealing it’s power and whatnot (you can check the scans I put in the OP). Giving more support of Arceus’s dimension being superior
And like many of us also reiterated, the difference in superiority doesn’t need to be infinite to reach Low 1-C as our standards show and accept (hence cases like Archie Sonic and the chaos force becoming Low 1-C without needing such a requirement).
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Also there’s the entire argument of game canon vs anime canon but I ain’t even touching that rn.
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This "mere fraction" is literally Arceus perceiving the Creation Trio into existence. The embodiments of space, time and their opposite are nothing but perceptions to Arceus. And yes, in both cases that this is stated, it's referring explicitly to true form Arceus.
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Does this contradict me? Because in the scan is quite said they're just aspects.
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Supports you. I was clarifying the degree of this "mere fraction".
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Actually I'd think them being just perceptions help the case being made. Think of it like it sees them as just dreams or something fiction, common terminology used for Transcendence.
Is their any scans that says this outright. Probably in the blog I presume, or is this from that thing Cogito says in Legends: Arceus?
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- Thread starter
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At this point, any argument against this that remotely involves an Arceus avatar should be straight up ignored to not clutter the thread.
Anyone who’s actually read the thread should know what goes and doesn’t go.
Anyone who’s actually read the thread should know what goes and doesn’t go.
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