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A Certain Llama Wants In On The Low 1-C club; Pokemon Low 1-C Upgrade for True Form Arceus

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Yeah no. Nothing in this entire thing indicates Arceus is superior to space and time. All you've done is prove that Arceus' realm is outside of the dimension of space and time and the real world, as well as being inaccessible to Hoopa. None of that necessitates Arceus being Low 1-C.

In fact, the model showing the dimensions of the Pokémon World depicts the realm of Arceus as simply another world on the same level as all of the others. I find it really hard to believe that this realm is supposed infinitely superior to the others.

In fact, we see Arceus (not the Original Spirit, but Arceus itself) not only existing in its realm, but also causing ripples in its structure and bending it to reach the Pokémon world. Arceus should absolutely scale to its realm. And considering how Arceus fights with Dialga and Palkia, that would make Dialga and Palkia Low 1-C. Aka, it would literally make Space and Time transcend themselves. Which is absolute nonsense.

So no. Low 1-C Arceus is bad. Y'all out of your minds. Stop.
 
Possibly/Likely would be fine imo. Just like the countless universes making it likely, the evidence just isn't there yet. Solid extrapolation, but just that

He's not ready for low 1C yet . Why the rush
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Yeah no. Nothing in this entire thing indicates Arceus is superior to space and time. All you've done is prove that Arceus' realm is outside of the dimension of space and time and the real world, as well as being inaccessible to Hoopa. None of that necessitates Arceus being Low 1-C.

In fact, the model showing the dimensions of the Pokémon World depicts the realm of Arceus as simply another world on the same level as all of the others. I find it really hard to believe that this realm is supposed infinitely superior to the others.

In fact, we see Arceus (not the Original Spirit, but Arceus itself) not only existing in its realm, but also causing ripples in its structure and bending it to reach the Pokémon world. Arceus should absolutely scale to its realm. And considering how Arceus fights with Dialga and Palkia, that would make Dialga and Palkia Low 1-C. Aka, it would literally make Space and Time transcend themselves. Which is absolute nonsense.

So no. Low 1-C Arceus is bad. Y'all out of your minds. Stop.
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Skill issue
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
In fact, we see Arceus (not the Original Spirit, but Arceus itself) not only existing in its realm, but also causing ripples in its structure and bending it to reach the Pokémon world. Arceus should absolutely scale to its realm. And considering how Arceus fights with Dialga and Palkia, that would make Dialga and Palkia Low 1-C. Aka, it would literally make Space and Time transcend themselves. Which is absolute nonsense.

So no. Low 1-C Arceus is bad. Y'all out of your minds. Stop.
Click to expand...
Arceus was stomping the CT. all they did was inconvience Arceus with their hax, and by inconvience I mean they did their hax then Arceus decided to ignore it and break through without effort.
 
In what Universe were the CT able to stand up to Arceus? What's the guy talking about. What performance parameters are you working on exactly?

He stomped them easily while supposedly weakened . They didn't stand a chance at all
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Yeah no. Nothing in this entire thing indicates Arceus is superior to space and time. All you've done is prove that Arceus' realm is outside of the dimension of space and time and the real world, as well as being inaccessible to Hoopa. None of that necessitates Arceus being Low 1-C.

In fact, the model showing the dimensions of the Pokémon World depicts the realm of Arceus as simply another world on the same level as all of the others. I find it really hard to believe that this realm is supposed infinitely superior to the others.

In fact, we see Arceus (not the Original Spirit, but Arceus itself) not only existing in its realm, but also causing ripples in its structure and bending it to reach the Pokémon world. Arceus should absolutely scale to its realm. And considering how Arceus fights with Dialga and Palkia, that would make Dialga and Palkia Low 1-C. Aka, it would literally make Space and Time transcend themselves. Which is absolute nonsense.

So no. Low 1-C Arceus is bad. Y'all out of your minds. Stop.
Click to expand...
And here caps starts to come.

Arceus isn't just outside space and time lmfao. They're part of its being for one.

Model is just a representation, not the literal thing.

And no. Avatar discussion is for other things. Not to mention that Creation Trio was completely stomped and Arceus can create those without any plate with 0 effort, making them Low 1-C circular scaling.

I really don't see any argument against Arceus which doesn't break this site's own standards lmfao.
 
I love how blatant “beyond” and “transcend” statements somehow only mean “outside space and time”

Should we say the chaos force is only outside space-time then? Cuz I’d love to see a downgrade attempt for Archie Sonic.

Sorry. But that entire response is full of nothing but incredulity, Uber headcanon and being very dismissive. Not much needs to be said to counter that disagreement.
 
Yemma670 said:
Possibly/Likely would be fine imo. Just like the countless universes making it likely, the evidence just isn't there yet. Solid extrapolation, but just that

He's not ready for low 1C yet . Why the rush
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To be honest I don't mind a "possibly" either.
 
"Beyond" doesn't stand for transcendence in the slightest. Get your VS-rotted brain out of here for one second. And your transcendence statement is in an entirely different, unrelated context. You have no reasons to apply it to space-time and get Low 1-C out of it.

I don't care what Sonic does. If the reasoning for it is shit, that's not my problem. The reasoning here is shit, which is what we're talking about. Stop your what-about-ism.


Arceus not immediately stomping the CT, with any fight happening at all, is proof enough that Arceus is not infinitely superior to the CT. Whether or not he's weakened doesn't matter, the Plates don't give infinite boosts in power in any media where their abilities are explained. Hell, in the same fight, Arceus was temporarily stopped by Palkia's spatial powers (or Dialga's temporal powers, I don't remember). This is absolutely not something a Low 1-C being should have to deal with, if this Low 1-C is this tier via transcending space-time.

Arceus itself (and not the Original Spirit) being Low 1-C absolutely does not work. The entire argument here is based on very weak proofs from unrelated sources being twisted and forced into this headcanon, while any and all actual interactions we see on-screen working completely against it.
 
Could someone retell me the reasoning behind why the transcendence is superlative enough to warrant a tier change?
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
"Beyond" doesn't stand for transcendence in the slightest. Get your VS-rotted brain out of here for one second. And your transcendence statement is in an entirely different, unrelated context. You have no reasons to apply it to space-time and get Low 1-C out of it.

I don't care what Sonic does. If the reasoning for it is shit, that's not my problem. The reasoning here is shit, which is what we're talking about. Stop your what-about-ism.
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The site is against you fella.

Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Arceus not immediately stomping the CT, with any fight happening at all, is proof enough that Arceus is not infinitely superior to the CT. Whether or not he's weakened doesn't matter, the Plates don't give infinite boosts in power in any media where their abilities are explained. Hell, in the same fight, Arceus was temporarily stopped by Palkia's spatial powers (or Dialga's temporal powers, I don't remember). This is absolutely not something a Low 1-C being should have to deal with, if this Low 1-C is this tier via transcending space-time.
Click to expand...
With Arceus not caring at all of what they do. This happens all the time in Pokémon where supposedly infinitely above Legends don't one shot lower tiers. You're ignoring the part of Arceus creating from 0 a CT member with 0 effort because you just don't like Arceus being that strong apparently.
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Arceus itself (and not the Original Spirit) being Low 1-C absolutely does not work. The entire argument here is based on very weak proofs from unrelated sources being twisted and forced into this headcanon, while any and all actual interactions we see on-screen working completely against it.
Click to expand...
Because this whole comment isn't.
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Arceus not immediately stomping the CT, with any fight happening at all, is proof enough that Arceus is not infinitely superior to the CT. Whether or not he's weakened doesn't matter, the Plates don't give infinite boosts in power in any media where their abilities are explained. Hell, in the same fight, Arceus was temporarily stopped by Palkia's spatial powers (or Dialga's temporal powers, I don't remember). This is absolutely not something a Low 1-C being should have to deal with, if this Low 1-C is this tier via transcending space-time.
Click to expand...
except he was stomping them completely. Saying it was even a fight is misrepresenting what happened. Also Palkias spatial powers were instantly negged by it.
 
Also yall can highkey put me down as neutral until i get my questions answered, i agreed way too soon without looking into it at more detail, because it looked fine at a glance and the FRA chain was pretty based. But on a real note, from what i've seen so far it doesn't seem to be L1-C until further clarification can be givem.
 
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
"Beyond" doesn't stand for transcendence in the slightest. Get your VS-rotted brain out of here for one second.
Click to expand...
Okay first of all, cut the attitude out. Your being unnecessarily rude.

Second of all, beyond in this context is most definitely talking about transcendence when it (and by it, I mean Arceus) clarified that the REALM is beyond space and time. There’s no debating the interpretation.

Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
And your transcendence statement is in an entirely different, unrelated context. You have no reasons to apply it to space-time and get Low 1-C out of it.
Click to expand...
A being who has the entire verse as a small facet of its true existence is called the god who transcends everything. The context on transcendence here is very fairly clear, and your lack of telling us what this context could otherwise mean just tells us that even more.

Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
I don't care what Sonic does. If the reasoning for it is shit, that's not my problem. The reasoning here is shit, which is what we're talking about. Stop your what-about-ism.
Click to expand...
Nice try, but it’s not whataboutism when it’s literally the same exact case, and the point in mentioning Sonic isn’t to use whataboutism, but to show the blatant double standard when our site accepts this practice as acceptable means to get Low 1-C. Whether you like it or not, it’s enough to get Low 1-C here.

Sonic proves it, and if you disagree, Better downgrade him and change the standards

Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Arceus not immediately stomping the CT, with any fight happening at all, is proof enough that Arceus is not infinitely superior to the CT. Whether or not he's weakened doesn't matter, the Plates don't give infinite boosts in power in any media where their abilities are explained. Hell, in the same fight, Arceus was temporarily stopped by Palkia's spatial powers (or Dialga's temporal powers, I don't remember).
Click to expand...
There’s such a word called PIS, which it very much is when Arceus shakes their powers off with literally no effort.

Not to mention this was Weakened Arceus. This upgrade is for True Form Arceus, so even if your headcanon had any validity here, it’s absolutely irrelevant to the Arceus this discussion is about.
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
This is absolutely not something a Low 1-C being should have to deal with, if this Low 1-C is this tier via transcending space-time.
Click to expand...
See above.
Saikou_The_Lewd_King said:
Arceus itself (and not the Original Spirit) being Low 1-C absolutely does not work. The entire argument here is based on very weak proofs from unrelated sources being twisted and forced into this headcanon, while any and all actual interactions we see on-screen working completely against it.
Click to expand...
Sorry but canon works are not “unrelated”
 
Why is he using Arceus Avatar to downplay His True Form tho

Did he like, read the crt before jumping in to speak?

His avatar is not low 1C bro.
 
No opinions on the threads topic myself still, but I have to agree. No need to be so rude Saikou.
 
Yes.

(Posts above Kukui's)
I'm going to ask you to stop this chain of "discussion" right there and cease using the memes to react to posts.
 
The transcendence is good enough because
  • Palkia is space itself. And space in Pokémon verse extends to also parallel universes and directions (aka axis). So Palkia is the 4D spatial section of the verse.
  • Arceus has Palkia in its entirety as a mere fraction of its being. Not just Palkia, but all the CT, meaning the 4D concepts themselves of space-time are nothing but a small piece of Arceus itself.
  • Arceus is the god who transcends everything, and this is further shown from Hoopa not being able to access Arceus' realm while it could with CT.
So the beyond space and time is Low 1-C here as Arceus realm is superior in every single aspect to 4D space time and axis.
 
StrymULTRA said:
The transcendence is good enough because
  • Palkia is space itself. And space in Pokémon verse extends to also parallel universes and directions (aka axis). So Palkia is the 4D spatial section of the verse.
  • Arceus has Palkia in its entirety as a mere fraction of its being. Not just Palkia, but all the CT, meaning the 4D concepts themselves of space-time are nothing but a small piece of Arceus itself.
  • Arceus is the god who transcends everything, and this is further shown from Hoopa not being able to access Arceus' realm while it could with CT.
So the beyond space and time is Low 1-C here as Arceus realm is superior in every single aspect to 4D space time and axis.
Click to expand...
This^


And to explain Hoopa a little more, Hoopas rings, which use infinite power, could only forcibly interact with the dimensions of the Creation Trio when using it’s true form and power, Hoopa Unbound.

But even as Unbound, Hoopa can’t in any way interact with Arceus’s dimension, proven by Ghris sealing it’s power and whatnot (you can check the scans I put in the OP). Giving more support of Arceus’s dimension being superior

And like many of us also reiterated, the difference in superiority doesn’t need to be infinite to reach Low 1-C as our standards show and accept (hence cases like Archie Sonic and the chaos force becoming Low 1-C without needing such a requirement).
 
image0.jpg
Idk how “Arceus was inconvenienced with the CT” is an argument when we’re not arguing avatars, but Arceus’s true form, which outright isn’t the llama but ethereal omnipresent light. If your anti feats involve the llama, it’s automatically invalid. Because the Original Spirit isn’t the llama.

Also there’s the entire argument of game canon vs anime canon but I ain’t even touching that rn.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Arceus has Palkia in its entirety as a mere fraction of its being. Not just Palkia, but all the CT, meaning the 4D concepts themselves of space-time are nothing but a small piece of Arceus itself.
Click to expand...
This "mere fraction" is literally Arceus perceiving the Creation Trio into existence. The embodiments of space, time and their opposite are nothing but perceptions to Arceus. And yes, in both cases that this is stated, it's referring explicitly to true form Arceus.
 
GyroNutz said:
This "mere fraction" is literally Arceus perceiving the Creation Trio into existence. The embodiments of space, time and their opposite are nothing but perceptions to Arceus. And yes, in both cases that this is stated, it's referring explicitly to true form Arceus.
Click to expand...
Does this contradict me? Because in the scan is quite said they're just aspects.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Does this contradict me? Because in the scan is quite said they're just aspects.
Click to expand...
Actually I'd think them being just perceptions help the case being made. Think of it like it sees them as just dreams or something fiction, common terminology used for Transcendence.

Is their any scans that says this outright. Probably in the blog I presume, or is this from that thing Cogito says in Legends: Arceus?
 
At this point, any argument against this that remotely involves an Arceus avatar should be straight up ignored to not clutter the thread.

Anyone who’s actually read the thread should know what goes and doesn’t go.
 
technically there's the whole ordeal with the entire pokemon verse being created from a thought from PLA but you didn't hear that from me
 
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