7 Deadly Sins Diane and Gowther Upgrade

[Mickey1940]

I recently finished watching 7DS: Cursed by Light, and I noticed that Diane could push back and blast holes into the Supreme Deity with her Creation magic despite not even using Drole's Dance, as well as take direct blows from and keep up with her alongside the rest of the Sins despite not using Heavy Metal

Even if you say that Gideon was powering her up, and even if you say that the Supreme Deity was holding back, it shouldn't allow her durability and speed to keep up with a High 6B if she's only 7B and weaker than ****** Grayroad, not to mention Supreme Deity's attacks were able to severely injure King, who is High 6B and was also caught in the crossfire

I personally think that Base Diane should be buffed to High 6B in base and higher with Drole's Dance, Heay Metal, and Gideon


Edit: Gowther should also have these buffs due to performing the same feats

 

[ByAsura]

First of all, Diane was using Gideon's lightning rod ability to absorb and redirect the impact of those attacks, and even the fraction that Gideon couldn't absorb was ******* her up. In fact, Supreme Deity was going to kill her and the Sins with one blast. Even if we discount those facts, Gowther survived the exact same attacks as Diane, despite getting torn apart by 3Cs Mael, who doesn't even begin to compare to SD and 50% DK.

Secondly, literally nothing in the scene says she wasn't using Drole's Dance, and massive chunks of the movie's events aren't shown on-screen. How would that even make sense? Her base form has a power level of 8,000.

Third, she never kept up with SD in speed once. Diane just fired attacks at her while Gowther was momentarily suppressing her neural activity.

At best, this scales to her AP with Gideon and Drole's Dance, since Rush Rock involved Drole's Dance.

 

[ByAsura]

I meant to say Rush Rock involved Gideon, not Drole's Dance btw. Don't crucify me.

 

[Mickey1940]

First of all, Diane was using Gideon's lightning rod ability to absorb and redirect the impact of those attacks, and even the fraction that Gideon couldn't absorb was ******* her up. In fact, Supreme Deity was going to kill her and the Sins. Even if we discount those facts, Gowther survived the same attack, despite getting torn apart by 3Cs Mael.

Secondly, literally nothing in the scene says she wasn't using Drole's Dance, and massive chunks of the movie aren't shown. How would that even make sense? Her base form has a power level of 8,000.

Third, she never kept up with SD in speed once. Diane just fired attacks at her while Gowther was momentarily suppressing her neural activity.

At best, this scales to her AP with Gideon and Drole's Dance, since Rush Rock involved Drole's Dance.

1. Supreme Deity's second lightning attack basically 1 shot King. Gowther and Diane were both hit by that attack full force and took similar levels of damage. It's not at all hard to believe that Diane and Gowther got stronger in the 6 months since the final chapter of the original manga

2. The entire fight against the Supreme Deity was on screen, and she didn't use it a single time. She uses Drole's Dance to buff herself and her allies in character, and yet she never did so. Heavy Metal was also not used.

3. She was able to react to her lightning by slamming Gideon into the ground and redirecting the blow elsewhere, not to mention she was fast enough to catch SD off guard with a Rush Rock

4. Even if that's the case she still took hits from the SD without using heavy metal, and those hits were able to incapacitate King.

 

[ByAsura]

1. Diane still had Gideon on her, meaning she could've easily used Lightning Rod at any point, which we even see her do during the backlash of the lightning bolt that hits Ban. King even says 'if she strikes again, neither we nor the others can survive' after the first attack. Lo and behold, the final attack would've killed all of the Sins, including characters much stronger than Diane, like Ban.

Gowther is a doll. He never gets stronger by training at any point in the series, only by his unlocking his emotions.

Also, none of the characters would've taken the entire AP of the attack. Even just logically, there's 4 of them and not enough surface area to go around, so she still wouldn't scale to the full yield.

2. Firstly, you do realise that they'd been fighting entire clans throughout the movie, right? Diane could've done it at literally any point during that time and not turned it off since the Sins' intentions were to protect the capital afterwards. Hell, she could've even done it after SD's arrival because there's on-screen battles between the Knights and Goddesses that take up chunks of the film.

Secondly, Diane and Drole can do that by simply dancing even while in front of a much faster, stronger enemy like Mael and Zeldris. Maybe the actual reason why she didn't do Drole's Dance right then and there like you're saying is because she already did it, making that option completely redundant. Also, Diane only amplified King's abilities with Drole's Dance once in the entire series, and that's because King was using feints to occupy Mael himself.

What you're saying especially makes little sense because there is a massive gap between Diane without Drole's Dance and Diane with Drole's Dance, even when using it for a few seconds, during which time she can attack and dodge. She'd have mentioned such a massive combat advantage at any point if she somehow was already somewhat comparable to SD without it, and probably even taken something like Ban's distraction as an opportunity to use the dance.

3. Diane is never shown reacting to an attack directly. SD's first attack took so much time to build up that she already responded by questioning it, the second was the same attack with the same amount of build up, and the third was just the aftershock of the attack on Ban.

Again, Gowther disabled her brain functions momentarily for that to even happen, which Diane said was 'plenty of time.' SD was caught 'off-guard' (which is like saying the boulders and dirt in Las Alamos were surprised by the Trinity nuclear test) by Rush Rock because she was partially brain dead.

4. See the second comment. I meant Gideon. You were trying to apply this to Diane's AP without Gideon.

 

[Mickey1940]

1. Diane still had Gideon on her, meaning she could've easily used Lightning Rod at any point, which we even see her do during the backlash of the lightning bolt that hits Ban. King even says 'if she strikes again, neither we nor the others can survive.'

Gowther is a doll. He never gets stronger by training at any point in the series, only by his unlocking his emotions.

2. Firstly, you do realise that they'd been fighting entire clans throughout the movie, right? Diane could've done it at literally any point during that time and not turned it off since the Sins' intentions were to protect the capital afterwards. Hell, she could've even done it after SD's arrival because there's on-screen battles between the Knights and Goddesses that take up chunks of the film.

Secondly, Diane and Drole can do that by simply dancing even while in front of a much faster, stronger enemy like Mael and Zeldris. Maybe the actual reason why she didn't do Drole's Dance right then and there like you're saying is because she already did it. Also, Diane only amplified King's abilities with Drole's Dance once in the entire series.

3. Diane is never shown reacting to an attack directly. SD's first attack took so much time to build up that she already responded by questioning it, the second was the same attack with the same amount of build up, and the third was just the aftershock of the attack on Ban.

Again, Gowther disabled her brain functions momentarily for that to even happen, which Diane even said was 'plenty of time.'

4. See the second comment. I meant Gideon. You were trying to apply this to Diane's AP without Gideon.

1. Simply having Gideon isn't enough to redirect attacks into the ground, especially considering her reluctance to do so in the first place since it drastically harms the earth and any life form residing on it. Not to mention, she DID strike again, and none of them were taken down
Diane has never gotten stronger at any point in the series after Drole's trial, but that's only because the war ended days later and she didn't have a chance to train. Most of the others got blatant power boosts and limit breaks while she didn't get that chance. Yet despite this fact, she is still capable of getting stronger just by training. Gowther being a Doll has never been stated to hinder his own growth at any point in the series. He hasn't gotten stronger since his Emotions were restored for the same reasons as Diane: The war ends very soon after their limit breaks and they didn't receive any additional ones unlike most of the others.
2. The only thing that's needed to incapacitate the mind-controlled Giants and Fairies is for Ban to steal their equipment. No one would have any reason to fight back due to this one fact. Not to mention, Ban took care of everyone in the Forest, and they immediately went to Liones, with no indication that they fought anyone else in the way. Not to mention, Drole's Dance doesn't stick with her after battle, plus she doesn't need it to incapacitate random fodder Giants and Fairies. You're basically assuming that Diane maintained Drole's Dance since the wedding, changed clothes, went to Liones, and then fought the Supreme Deity, which makes zero sense.
As for the on screen battles, are you basically saying that during the Knights vs Goddess fight, SD and the rest of the sins sat their asses out with popcorn in their hands tossing dollar bills while Diane pole danced the entire time? Is that really a reasonable assumption compared to "she got stronger in 6 months"?
Just because she only boosted King once in th series doesn't mean she can't do it again. She wouldn't have any reason not to use it to omnibuff everyone and yet it's made clear that she didn't.
3. If Diane was truly that much weaker than everyone else then SD wouldn't be able to block King's Chastifol, as it would have just 1 shot her due to King's massive advantage compared to Diane according to this wiki. Yet Diane kicked her a mile away and left holes all over her body while King's Chastifol was destroyed with a single attack. Sure you can argue that Gowther immobilized her for 1 second so she couldn't block, but even then Low 6B Diane wouldn't have been able to leave a single scratch normally, much less tear her body apart and send her flying
Not to mention, SD was clearly barely affected by Gowther's magic, as not only was she immobilized for a single second, she was literally able to talk and think while doing so. Considering she has multiple thought based magic and attacks, negating Diane's attacks would have been childe's play if she was still Low 6B, yet she was still injured by it.
4. Diane's AP without Gideon should be comparable to her durability, who survived multiple attacks from SD who massively injured King. Gideon would just make her even stronger.

 

[ByAsura]

1. Simply having Gideon isn't enough to redirect attacks into the ground, especially considering her reluctance to do so in the first place since it drastically harms the earth and any life form residing on it.

Her reluctance? Bruh, she used lightning rod anyway. This is point is beyond moot.

Not to mention, she DID strike again, and none of them were taken down

Fair enough. But, still, SD's final attack was going to kill her.

Diane has never gotten stronger at any point in the series after Drole's trial, but that's only because the war ended days later and she didn't have a chance to train.

I didn't say Diane, I said Gowther.

Gowther being a Doll has never been stated to hinder his own growth at any point in the series.

It's also never stated to allow it. The simple fact is that he doesn't have muscles or tendons, nor a stated equivalent, and hasn't been shown to have any growth in the series otherwise.

Not to mention, Ban took care of everyone in the Forest, and they immediately went to Liones, with no indication that they fought anyone else in the way.

You're severely missing the point here. She went to the capital to stop this shit and defend Liones right after that scene.

Not to mention, Drole's Dance doesn't stick with her after battle, plus she doesn't need it to incapacitate random fodder Giants and Fairies. You're basically assuming that Diane maintained Drole's Dance since the wedding, changed clothes, went to Liones, and then fought the Supreme Deity, which makes zero sense.

She used it on a pre-emotion Gowther level opponent post-training, and it's never stated that there's a huge time limit.

As for the on screen battles, are you basically saying that during the Knights vs Goddess fight, SD and the rest of the sins sat their asses out with popcorn in their hands tossing dollar bills while Diane pole danced the entire time?

Pole dance? It literally takes ******* seconds and can be done in the midst of combat, which is something I already explained. This is the definition of a strawman.

Also, you're talking about this as if she's never done Drole's Dance in a fight before.

Is that really a reasonable assumption compared to "she got stronger in 6 months"?

It's definitely more reasonable than claiming that Diane, let alone Gowther, went from Matrona level to the ******* Supreme Deity in 6 months.

Just because she only boosted King once in th series doesn't mean she can't do it again. She wouldn't have any reason not to use it to omnibuff everyone and yet it's made clear that she didn't.

I love how you just straight up ignored the other half of what I said; she used it specifically in that situation because King was able to occupy Mael completely by making feints.

3. If Diane was truly that much weaker than everyone else then SD wouldn't be able to block King's Chastifol, as it would have just 1 shot her due to King's massive advantage compared to Diane according to this wiki.

Again, Diane used lightning rod and Gideon to do what you're claiming. I'm fine with Gideon having this kind of AP, honestly, but dura and speed is beyond ridiculous.

Sure you can argue that Gowther immobilized her for 1 second so she couldn't block, but even then Low 6B Diane wouldn't have been able to leave a single scratch normally, much less tear her body apart and send her flying

I didn't say it physically weakened her, I said it made her unable to react to the attack because you were arguing that this was a speed feat.

 

[ByAsura]

My mistake on the Ban weapon point. I was confusing some translated excerpts of the novel with the film, and forgot that their weaponry was responsible for the brainwashing. My bad.

Also, I misunderstood the pole dancing point, and have edited it.

 

[Mickey1940]

Her reluctance? Bruh, she used lightning rod anyway. This is point is beyond moot.

Fair enough. But, still, SD's final attack was going to kill her.

I didn't say Diane, I said Gowther.

It's also never stated to allow it. The simple fact is that he doesn't have muscles or tendons, nor a stated equivalent, and hasn't been shown to have any growth in the series otherwise.

A) that didn't happen, B) they were brainwashed and still have fists and magic. This is like saying you can incapacitate Mike Tyson by taking off his brass knuckles.

You're saying this as if Ban was the singular character who fought everyone. Diane and King fought them before Ban showed up.

She used it on a Gowther level opponent, and it's never stated that there's a huge time limit.

Did you actually listen to what I said? I said Diane could've used it at literally any point off-screen. That is literally the opposite of what you're applying to me.

It's definitely more reasonable than claiming that Diane went from Matrona level to the ******* Supreme Deity in 6 months.

I love how you just straight up ignored the other half of what I said; she used it specifically in that situation because King was able to occupy Mael completely by making feints.

Again, Diane used lightning rod and Gideon to do what you're claiming. I'm fine with Gideon having this kind of AP, honestly, but dura and speed is beyond ridiculous.

I didn't say it physically weakened her, I said it made her unable to react to the attack because you were arguing that this was a speed feat.

1. Diane specifically stated that she didn't initially use it against Mael since she didn't want to endanger the environment. She uses it as a last resort, meaning it's not particularly in character for her to do so unless she's threatened to that extent
2. It was going to kill the rest of them too
3. I used Diane as an example. Neither of them got stronger throughout the series on screen. Yet both of them have better feats in the movie than they did in the manga. Diane probably trained and got stronger. Gowther being a Doll has never been stated to hinder his ability to grow stronger at any point in the series. Thus claiming he didn't get stronger doesn't really make much sense
4. Inorganic Physiology isn't exactly a good excuse for not becoming stronger. Plenty of other artificial/inorganic beings in other series have gotten stronger via training before. Gowther's ability to get stronger has never been stated to be hindered by him being a doll, and thus shouldn't be used against him
5. You admitted you were wrong about the Ban weapon thing so I'll skip this point
6. Neither of them actually did anything during that small scuffle. Even if they did, they can both easily incapacitate the fodder enemies, plus no one was trying to actually hurt them.
7. Giants and Fairies are not Gowther level opponents. Even if you assume Gowther was still as strong as he was back in the war, Gowther is High 6C while the giants and fairies were pushed back by the likes of Matrona and the Holy Knights who are 7B
8. I don't think the authors would really want her to use it off screen. At the very least it should be indicated at ANY point in the movie, yet it wasn't shown or implied literally anywhere. This might be because she's a side character in themovie, but no statements or implications whatsoever is certainly reason for doubt. Not to mention you said she could have done so during the Knights vs Goddess battle, which she clearly didn't since literally no one did anything. They were literally watching the shit happen. Which is probably PiS
9. Zeldris did the same thing despite the fact that he was banging his girlfriend the entire time. Escanor did the same thing literally during the war (High Noon used to be High 6B against Zeldris, then became 6A for no reason against Demon King Zeldris). Most of the Holy Knights in Liones went from literally the entire nation plus the 7 deadly sins struggling against Gray Demon Blood Hendrick, to just Howzer evaporating Gray and Copper demons with a wave of his hand in just a couple months after a lot of training. There's no reason to asusme that Diane can't do the same thing
10. I don't see your point? So then she didn't use it against SD after all cuz she had no time since no one could hold SD back?
11. She literally took multiple lightning blasts after the first one she redirected. These same lightning blasts incapacitated King. AP, Dura and Speed should scale accordingly due to how power levels in the verse work. It's literally just namek saga DBZ all over again
12. SD had enough time to scoff at Gowther's attack and call herself an omnipotent god like the massive bitch she is. Not to mention, if you rewatch the fight, she DID block it with a barrier, but it just went straight through and knocked her back. The speed feat comes from being able to react to and work in tandem with the other Sins

 

[ByAsura]

1. Diane specifically stated that she didn't initially use it against Mael since she didn't want to endanger the environment. She uses it as a last resort, meaning it's not particularly in character for her to do so unless she's threatened to that extent

She used it anyway here. You're basically arguing that snow isn't white.

You even say 'unless she's threatened to that extend', you mean like a blast from a god?

2. It was going to kill the rest of them too

Cool, so none of them scale, including Diane.

We're on the same page here, then.

Neither of them got stronger throughout the series on screen.

Then it's a terrible example, because Diane did get stronger on-screen. They left almost immediately after the trial with Gloxinia and Drole, meaning Diane got stronger the same way King did.

4. Inorganic Physiology isn't exactly a good excuse for not becoming stronger. Plenty of other artificial/inorganic beings in other series have gotten stronger via training before.

I think your point doesn't have any evidence for it to apply for burden of proof in the first place, but it seems to be a matter of opinion at this point, so I'll just skip past it.

5. You admitted you were wrong about the Ban weapon thing so I'll skip this point

Ok, so I'll address this point with the edit I made.

You're severely missing the point here. She went to the capital to stop this shit and defend Liones right after that scene.

7. Giants and Fairies are not Gowther level opponents. Even if you assume Gowther was still as strong as he was back in the war, Gowther is High 6C while the giants and fairies were pushed back by the likes of Matrona and the Holy Knights who are 7B

I meant pre-emotions Gowther. But, again, this point doesn't matter.

8. I don't think the authors would really want her to use it off screen.

Why?

Also, I have to mention that I misunderstood your point here at first. This is the edit I made.

Pole dance? It literally takes seconds and can be done in the midst of combat, which is something I already explained.

Also, you're talking about this as if she's never done Drole's Dance in a fight before.

At the very least it should be indicated at ANY point in the movie, yet it wasn't shown or implied literally anywhere.

It also wasn't remotely implied when she absolutely curbstomped Chimera Indura alongside the Sins, despite having to transform into Heavy Metal against Albions at that point and there not having been a battle for a whole day.

Not to mention you said she could have done so during the Knights vs Goddess battle, which she clearly didn't since literally no one did anything.

Again, why? It's off-screen, you can't just say 'literally no one did anything' when it's impossible to verify.

9. Zeldris did the same thing despite the fact that he was banging his girlfriend the entire time.

Zeldris was massively, massively, massively stronger than base Diane to begin with, and didn't even reach the kinds of levels you're claiming that Diane did since he needed enchanters.

Escanor did the same thing literally during the war (High Noon used to be High 6B against Zeldris, then became 6A for no reason against Demon King Zeldris).

Escanor passively absorbs sunlight over time.

Most of the Holy Knights in Liones went from literally the entire nation plus the 7 deadly sins struggling against Gray Demon Blood Hendrick, to just Howzer evaporating Gray and Copper demons with a wave of his hand in just a couple months after a lot of training. There's no reason to asusme that Diane can't do the same thing

Howzer never actually harmed a single Copper Demon (he, in fact, failed to completely) and was only shown overpowering one Gray Demon with a tornado, plus he explicitly did training with the Druids to justify that kind of amp. The rest of the knights were amped by Cheat Hope, did the same kind of training, were already that powerful, or even had a combination of these options.

10. I don't see your point? So then she didn't use it against SD after all cuz she had no time since no one could hold SD back?

My point is that a coordinated assault of this variety (not in general, mind you, as they do an assault) wasn't viable because SD could attack everyone at once.

11. She literally took multiple lightning blasts after the first one she redirected. These same lightning blasts incapacitated King. AP, Dura and Speed should scale accordingly due to how power levels in the verse work. It's literally just namek saga DBZ all over again

Which she also used lightning rod for, as we can see during the Ban aftershock.

Do I have to repeat this again?

12. SD had enough time to scoff at Gowther's attack and call herself an omnipotent god like the massive bitch she is.

Yet she couldn't actually fire an attack of any kind. What you're saying doesn't invalidate the point that she was unable to counter the attack in a meaningful way, explicitly allowing Diane to strike. Again, you're arguing snow isn't white with this because the material tells us that this is what happened.

Not to mention, if you rewatch the fight, she DID block it with a barrier

If SD's ability is anything like DK's, it's probably semi-passive.

but it just went straight through and knocked her back.

Ok, then, so no speed feat from Rush Rock, since you're now claiming that SD could react to it.

The speed feat comes from being able to react to and work in tandem with the other Sins

Gowther and King had already attacked. Diane just stayed in position and acted after they'd already finished.

As for them flying towards SD afterwards, they also did this during the DK fight when they were all at vastly different speed levels (with Gowther not even being on par with Chandler, and Diane almost getting blitzed by DK prior), suggesting they hold back to work in tandem.

 

[Mickey1940]

She used it anyway here. You're basically arguing that snow isn't white.

You even say 'unless she's threatened to that extend', you mean like a blast from a god?

Cool, so none of them scale, including Diane.

We're on the same page here, then.

Then it's a terrible example, because Diane did get stronger on-screen. They left almost immediately after the trial with Gloxinia and Drole, meaning Diane got stronger the same way King did.

I think your point doesn't have any evidence for it to apply for burden of proof in the first place, but it seems to be a matter of opinion at this point, so I'll just skip past it.

Ok, so I'll address this point with the edit I made.

You're severely missing the point here. She went to the capital to stop this shit and defend Liones right after that scene.

I meant pre-emotions Gowther. But, again, this point doesn't matter.

Why?

Also, I have to mention that I misunderstood your point here at first. This is the edit I made.

Pole dance? It literally takes seconds and can be done in the midst of combat, which is something I already explained.

Also, you're talking about this as if she's never done Drole's Dance in a fight before.

It also wasn't remotely implied when she absolutely curbstomped Chimera Indura alongside the Sins, despite having to transform into Heavy Metal against Albions at that point and there not having been a battle for a whole day.

Again, why? It's off-screen, you can't just say 'literally no one did anything' when it's impossible to verify.

Zeldris was massively, massively, massively stronger than base Diane to begin with, and didn't even reach the kinds of levels you're claiming that Diane did since he needed enchanters.

Escanor passively absorbs sunlight over time.

Howzer never actually harmed a single Copper Demon (he, in fact, failed to completely) and was only shown overpowering one Gray Demon with a tornado, plus he explicitly did training with the Druids to justify that kind of amp. The rest of the knights were amped by Cheat Hope, did the same kind of training, were already that powerful, or even had a combination of these options.

My point is that a coordinated assault of this variety (not in general, mind you, as they do an assault) wasn't viable because SD could attack everyone at once.

Which she also used lightning rod for, as we can see during the Ban aftershock.

Do I have to repeat this again?

Yet she couldn't actually fire an attack of any kind. What you're saying doesn't invalidate the point that she was unable to counter the attack in a meaningful way, explicitly allowing Diane to strike. Again, you're arguing snow isn't white with this because the material tells us that this is what happened.

If SD's ability is anything like DK's, it's probably semi-passive.

Ok, then, so no speed feat from Rush Rock, since you're now claiming that SD could react to it.

Gowther and King had already attacked. Diane just stayed in position and acted after they'd already finished.

As for them flying towards SD afterwards, they also did this during the DK fight when they were all at vastly different speed levels (with Gowther not even being on par with Chandler, and Diane almost getting blitzed by DK prior), suggesting they hold back to work in tandem.

1. The literal only other time she used it was when she was on a floating island where there was no threat to nature. She never used it against any other character in the series, not even Demon King Zeldris, who is perfectly capable of threatening her to the same degree. She doesn't spam this move in character. Heck even after the first blast she neglected to use it at any other point in the fight against SD. It's not in character to use it at all, so it's entirely reasonable that she used that move with sheer reactions alone, which considering SD's massive speed advantage against her normally, should be a pretty significant amp to her speed
2. But the fact of the matter is that despite King's statement, they were all hit point blank with the attack twice after the first one, and they were still not dead and able to stand, albeit injured. Diane and Gowther took the same amount of damage King did. If they didn't scale to King and kept their High 6C/Low 6B keys, they would have been evaporated by the second blast, but no instead they survived past the third
3. I said Diane never got stronger since the trial, while several other characters did
4. Liones is a pretty long walk from the Giant King's Forest. It's pretty unreasonable to assume that she maintained her boost since then when 1. she never needed it in the first place and 2. every other time she's fought in the series since learning Drole's Dance she's always started with it immediately when a fight starts and doesn't keep her boosts between fights unless they are immediately consecutive and happen seconds between each other, not several hours
5. She used it on Pre Emotions Gowther himself to intimidate him, and even then she didn't even finish the dance, not to mention she was in her Human Size form, which is also stated to be far weaker than she is normally. She definitely doesn't need it against other fairies and giants
6. Marketing and Clout. They wouldn't really pass up the chance for one of their characters to show off unless they didn't have the budget to animate it and they just wanted everyone to assume she did via nitpicking. Kinda like what you're trying to do here. In every other fight where she's used it, it's made explicitly clear that she DID use it. Why would this movie be the sole exception?
7. She smothered several Albions with a massive wave of earth immediately after her awakening. She didn't need to use Heavy Metal against them. She ALSO didn't use Heavy Metal against SD either yet she was still able to take hits from her multiple times.
8. Because literally no one did anything. SD was literally watching everything happen as confirmed by her dialogue, and for some reason no one decided to attack her or do anything for that matter. SD was like **** this shit and then blasted Liones and the Sins with her lightning. Plot Induced Stupidity is a thing that exists, especially for a movie as poorly written as this one
9. Zeldris went from High 6C Galand level fodder to 1 shotting SD. That's an explosive level of power. Sure that's not nearly as significant as Diane's boost but it goes to show that even when you're not explicitly training you can get much much stronger. Besides, Zeldris's current tier in Cursed by Light is justified by his feats. Why can't we do the same for Diane? Her feats are very obviously superior here
10. He LOST SUNSHINE after fighting Zeldris and Demon King Meliodas and got it back later to fight Demon King Zeldris. So no, he didn't passively absorb Sunlight over time.
11. There were multiple Gray Demons and 1 Copper Demon in the scan you sent me, as well as the corpses of several other demons.
12. So omni-buffing everyone isn't viable because SD can attack everyone? That doesn't even make sense since Ban alone can stall her to the point where Drole's Dance could have buffed everyone, and yet she still never used it.
13. Do I need to keep repeating myself? Every other attack used after the first one she took head-on and was still incapacitated. Rewatch the movie man. For further proof, Gowther could take it hed on and was just as injured as King was, despite your claims that "Gowther can't get stronger due to being a doll". Unlike Diane, he doesn't have the excuse of Lightning Rod he can pull out of his ass.
14. She still blocked it with a barrier and was barely affected by Gowther's attack. You're also missing the fact that if Diane was still 7B or even Low 6B her Rush Rock would have literally bounced off of SD, not pincushion her and knock her back several dozen meters
15. So she has an ability that enhances her defenses passively, and yet Diane was still able to blast through it with 1 attack? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder if that's still 7B
16. Her speed feat comes from reacting to SD's lightning fast enough to redirect it in a state of panic
17. Gowther was fast enough to jump on Chastifol and attack SD while King was launching his spear. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever for the Sins to hold themselves back against DK or SD cuz if they did they would just dodge it since the antagonists have literally no reason to hold themselves back either. That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever and I feel like you're only saying that to fabricate evidence for your point.


I'm beginning to realize thatmost if not all of your points revolve around "Just because they didn't do it on screen doesn't mean they didn't do it". For all we know the Sins could have paused the fight and went back to finish King's and Diane's ******* wedding reception while the SD just sat there waiting for them to come back. It COULD have happened off-screen, no? And yet we use common sense to realize that no, they didn't do that. Off-screen feats are only accepted when WoG or other characters confirm they did happen via statements. This isn't exclusive to 7DS either, it's accepted in literally other verses as well. Why should we make the assumption that a character did a particular thing when literally zero material or statements confirm that that thing happened?

 

[ByAsura]

1. The literal only other time she used it was when she was on a floating island where there was no threat to nature. She never used it against any other character in the series, not even Demon King Zeldris, who is perfectly capable of threatening her to the same degree.

Diane never had the opportunity to against DK Zeldris because he only attacked her once before she could react, and King countered it. Also, she shattered the entirety of Lake Salisbury in that same fight and left a gigantic crater, so why would she care about the land there?

She doesn't spam this move in character.

She doesn't use it in character, at all. So her doing it at all breaks character. Drawing an arbitrary line is just arbitrary.

Heck even after the first blast she neglected to use it at any other point in the fight against SD.

You're the one saying she neglected to, not the movie, and we're arguing over whether or not she used it for the other attacks. This is circular logic.

It's not in character to use it at all, so it's entirely reasonable that she used that move with sheer reactions alone, which considering SD's massive speed advantage against her normally, should be a pretty significant amp to her speed

Ok, this is just complete head canon. You're completely reaching at this point.

Lightning Rod is never presented as something you can just do with reactions alone.

4. Liones is a pretty long walk from the Giant King's Forest.

It's between 20 and 40 miles, but characters can get there in a few hours when not using super speed.

It's pretty unreasonable to assume that she maintained her boost since then when 1. she never needed it in the first place and 2. every other time she's fought in the series since learning Drole's Dance she's always started with it immediately when a fight starts and doesn't keep her boosts between fights unless they are immediately consecutive and happen seconds between each other, not several hours

The thing is, right, you're assuming I'm saying she did that at the start of the walk, which I'm not. I'm saying she could've done it at literally any point before getting to the capital while it was under assault.

5. She used it on Pre Emotions Gowther himself to intimidate him, and even then she didn't even finish the dance, not to mention she was in her Human Size form, which is also stated to be far weaker than she is normally. She definitely doesn't need it against other fairies and giants

Literally nothing says she used it to intimidate him. That was probably her opposite intention because she didn't want him to run away, and accept his heart/emotions.

They wouldn't really pass up the chance for one of their characters to show off unless they didn't have the budget to animate it and they just wanted everyone to assume she did via nitpicking. Kinda like what you're trying to do here. In every other fight where she's used it, it's made explicitly clear that she DID use it. Why would this movie be the sole exception?

You know what else they didn't show? King turning into his Full Wings form, despite us being shown that it's not actually his default appearance. Oh what a missed opportunity!

I literally just gave proof that it's not the sole exception with the Chimera Indura fight.

7. She smothered several Albions with a massive wave of earth immediately after her awakening.

Tf you mean awakening? She'd already received her power 40 chapters ago by that point.

She didn't need to use Heavy Metal against them.

She did use Heavy Metal against them. I'm not referring to her attacks.

8. Because literally no one did anything. SD was literally watching everything happen as confirmed by her dialogue, and for some reason no one decided to attack her or do anything for that matter. SD was like **** this shit and then blasted Liones and the Sins with her lightning. Plot Induced Stupidity is a thing that exists, especially for a movie as poorly written as this one

This is just the same shit. You're the only one saying this, not the film.

9. Zeldris went from High 6C Galand level fodder to 1 shotting SD.

Zeldris was never on par with Galand with his 2nd Mark. Read the profiles.

Why can't we do the same for Diane? Her feats are very obviously superior here

Because you're assuming her ******* base form, and most of her 'feats' are questionable.

10. He LOST SUNSHINE after fighting Zeldris and Demon King Meliodas and got it back later to fight Demon King Zeldris. So no, he didn't passively absorb Sunlight over time.

Fair point. I forgot.

11. There were multiple Gray Demons and 1 Copper Demon in the scan you sent me, as well as the corpses of several other demons.

There was a Copper Demon that was hit and an undamaged Grey Demon that fires on Howzer right after. Nothing indicates they were killed.

As for the ones that were killed, they were Red, Orange and Blue Demons, who are fodder to Grey Demons.

12. So omni-buffing everyone isn't viable because SD can attack everyone? That doesn't even make sense since Ban alone can stall her to the point where Drole's Dance could have buffed everyone, and yet she still never used it.

And she still ******* blasted Ban right after, simultaneously ******* up the Sins.

13. Do I need to keep repeating myself? Every other attack used after the first one she took head-on and was still incapacitated. Rewatch the movie man.

I did rewatch the movie. You see Lightning Rod conduct her lightning during the third blast.

For further proof, Gowther could take it hed on and was just as injured as King was, despite your claims that "Gowther can't get stronger due to being a doll". Unlike Diane, he doesn't have the excuse of Lightning Rod he can pull out of his ass.

Gowther shit doesn't matter. Also, it's the subject of your argument, so evoking it as a rebuttal is circular logic.

14. She still blocked it with a barrier and was barely affected by Gowther's attack.

I literally already addressed that.

You're also missing the fact that if Diane was still 7B or even Low 6B her Rush Rock would have literally bounced off of SD, not pincushion her and knock her back several dozen meters

Oh my ******* god — I am not arguing over Diane's AP, I agree with you there. I'm just saying it's with Gideon.

15. So she has an ability that enhances her defenses passively, and yet Diane was still able to blast through it with 1 attack? Hmmmmmmmm I wonder if that's still 7B

Defences against physical attacks. Creation is something that can be full countered, so it's magical, which is explicitly stated to us right after.

Also, a ******* gain, I agree with you there.

16. Her speed feat comes from reacting to SD's lightning fast enough to redirect it in a state of panic

She already had plenty of time to react before the blast, and this is founded on head canon.

17. Gowther was fast enough to jump on Chastifol and attack SD while King was launching his spear.

Gowther isn't Diane.

It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever for the Sins to hold themselves back against DK or SD

The past one was DK, so yeah they did.

That just doesn't make any sense whatsoever and I feel like you're only saying that to fabricate evidence for your point.

I'm beginning to realize thatmost if not all of your points revolve around "Just because they didn't do it on screen doesn't mean they didn't do it".

Your points just completely deny logic because it wasn't shown on screen.

Also, I love how you can just make shit up like 'Diane used lightning rod by accident in a panicked state', yet it's bad when I do it.

For all we know the Sins could have paused the fight and went back to finish King's and Diane's ******* wedding reception while the SD just sat there waiting for them to come back. It COULD have happened off-screen, no?

There's a massive difference between 'Diane used her strongest ability to fight Supreme Deity, a far superior opponent' and this bullshit.

Off-screen feats are only accepted when WoG or other characters confirm they did happen via statements. This isn't exclusive to 7DS either, it's accepted in literally other verses as well. Why should we make the assumption that a character did a particular thing when literally zero material or statements confirm that that thing happened?

Ok, fine, then, I'll get statements from the novelization.

Until then, I won't respond to this.

 

[Mickey1940]

Diane never had the opportunity to against DK Zeldris because he only attacked her once before she could react, and King countered it. Also, she shattered the entirety of Lake Salisbury in that same fight and left a gigantic crater, so why would she care about the land there?

She doesn't use it in character, at all. So her doing it at all breaks character. Drawing an arbitrary line is just arbitrary.

You're the one saying she neglected to, not the movie, and we're arguing over whether or not she used it for the other attacks. This is circular logic.

Ok, this is just complete head canon. You're completely reaching at this point.

Lightning Rod is never presented as something you can just do with reactions alone.

It's between 20 and 40 miles, but characters can get there in a few hours when not using super speed.

The thing is, right, you're assuming I'm saying she did that at the start of the walk, which I'm not. I'm saying she could've done it at literally any point before getting to the capital while it was under assault.

Literally nothing says she used it to intimidate him. That was probably her opposite intention because she didn't want him to run away, and accept his heart/emotions.

You know what else they didn't show? King turning into his Full Wings form, despite us being shown that it's not actually his default appearance. Oh what a missed opportunity!

I literally just gave proof that it's not the sole exception with the Chimera Indura fight.

Tf you mean awakening? She'd already received her power 40 chapters ago by that point.

She did use Heavy Metal against them. I'm not referring to her attacks.

This is just the same shit. You're the only one saying this, not the film.

Zeldris was never on par with Galand with his 2nd Mark. Read the profiles.

Because you're assuming her ******* base form, and most of her 'feats' are questionable.

Fair point. I forgot.

There was a Copper Demon that was hit and an undamaged Grey Demon that fires on Howzer right after. Nothing indicates they were killed.

As for the ones that were killed, they were Red, Orange and Blue Demons, who are fodder to Grey Demons.

And she still ******* blasted Ban right after, simultaneously ******* up the Sins.

I did rewatch the movie. You see Lightning Rod conduct her lightning during the third blast.

Gowther shit doesn't matter. Also, it's the subject of your argument, so evoking it as a rebuttal is circular logic.

I literally already addressed that.

Oh my ******* god — I am not arguing over Diane's AP, I agree with you there. I'm just saying it's with Gideon.

Defences against physical attacks. Creation is something that can be full countered, so it's magical, which is explicitly stated to us right after.

Also, a ******* gain, I agree with you there.

She already had plenty of time to react before the blast, and this is founded on head canon.

Gowther isn't Diane.

The past one was DK, so yeah they did.


Your points just completely deny logic because it wasn't shown on screen.

Also, I love how you can just make shit up like 'Diane used lightning rod by accident in a panicked state', yet it's bad when I do it.

There's a massive difference between 'Diane used her strongest ability to fight Supreme Deity, a far superior opponent' and this bullshit.

Ok, fine, then, I'll get statements from the novelization.

Until then, I won't respond to this.

1. Ok so DK Zeldris, a being on par with SD, could attack her before she could react, and now she's reacting to SD? Doesn't that mean that she got faster?
2. You're proving my point here. She's fast enough to analyze that she was going to get basically 1 shot and used that move despite the fact that she doesn't use it often and it isn't muscle memory for her to use it. That's a speed/reactions feat
3. She doesn't use Lightning Rod at any other point in the movie, and she can't use it with other attacks cuz she needs to slam Gideon into the ground in order for her to use it, which most of her attacks don't do that
4. What I meant by this is that she's fast enough to deliberate using it despite not wanting to use it normally, as opposed to using it as muscle memory and as an unconscious reaction
5. So you're saying she maintained the buff for a few HOURS despite the fact that she doesn't need to use it in the first place to defeat random Giants and Fairies, AND she wasn't fighting them at all since Ban was taking their weapons, AND it's likely they straight up didn't encounter any more enemies along the way?
6. Read point 5
7. Ok but you get my point right? She wasn't planning on actually fighting Gowther since she wanted to restore him. She could have easily demolished him if she was at her full Drole's Dance buff, and even without it she would have beaten him anyways since even in Base she's stronger than Sealed Meliodas who scales to Ban who's stronger than Emotions Lost Gowther
8. What? King is always in his Full Wings form. He had his full wings during the wedding too
9. Yes but she didn't grow stronger since then, and that was one of her first battles against the Demon army after awakening. She basically just swamped them in earth immediately
10. She used it to bash the Albion's head in, not take his attacks
11. The knights were fighting, SD was like "fools" and then proceeded to blast everyone. There was no indication that anyone did anything in that scene. In fact, immediately after that, SD remarked that "They can withstand her attacks", which she wouldn't have said if they had already begun fighting her.
12. Base Zeldris is not much stronger than Galland, yet he surpasses his own Second Demon Mark in base during the movie after 6 months of banging his girlfriend. He went from High 6C to High 6B and was able to 1 shot SD alongside Meliodas. Sure, Diane's starting point is a lot lower but it's still reasonable to say that she gaine an explosive increase since the war, and her feats support that
13. Skipping this cuz you conceded
14. The severed arm inside the tornado belongs to a Gray Demon, and the copper demon and gray demon in the background were visibly pushed back. Copper Demons are still far stronger than Gray Demon Blood Hendrickson, who was literally soloing all of Liones besides Merlin who chose to do nothing. The fact that Howzer alone could push them back goes to show how much he's grown since then, and proves my point that characters can experience massive increases in power through training and experience
15. Diane could have danced while Ban was Assault Hunting SD, yet she never did
16. The third blast was during the whole "anime motivational speech" scene. In that scene, Gideon wasn't touching the ground so no she wasn't using it. In fact, literally all 4 of them were tanking it WHILE giving the motivational speech. So that's a dura feat for all of them
17. Gowther, who is far weaker than Diane, can still keep up with Full Wings King alongside the other sins. I'm using Gowtheer to reinforce my point because, as you claim, Gowther can't et stronger due to being a Doll. Yet he's clearly stronger here. Diane should be capable of getting stronger since she's not a doll. Both of them got visibly stronger.
18. The barrier being passive does indeed debunk the attack's speed, but it actually reinforces my point about her AP. The attack went straight through the barrier, punched her full of holes, and knocked her back
19. I agree that she performed the attack with Gideon. The thing is, her normal AP without Gideon scales to her durability who took hits from and eventually facetanked SD's God Thunder
20. Yes she is vulnerable to magic, but she still has a forcefield that is enhancing her durability. Diane was still able to plow through it. But you mostly conceded so I'm skipping this
21. She wouldn't have been able to tell how strong the attack would be until she starts firing it, then she had more time to deliberate on it. Even if you assume this is headcanon, she still has speed feats y working in tandem with other sins like Ban and King who weren't holding back
22. Read point 21
23. DK was stronger than literally all of the sins individually. Why would the sins restrict their own speed? That would just make DK blitz them
24. I never claimed it was by accident. That goes exactly against my point. Read point 2
25. You're missing my point. The sins could have easily dispatched the SD with a vast majority of their moves, like Zero Sign into Physical Hunt, Hunter Fest, Drole's Dance, Blackout Arrow spam, Lost World, etc etc. The only person who literally couldn't do anything was King, but that's because his magic type nearly mirrors SD's own, so she has direct resistance to it. 7DS has a lot of pokemon type logic so it makes sense here

 

[Mickey1940]

Can we get another admin here? It might be better if more people gave their opinions on this topic

I don't know how to make this thread an official CRT but that's basically what I'm trying to do

 

[ByAsura]

Like I said, I'm going to ignore these points until I translate the novel scans.

Anyway, I'll ask some staff.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Elizhaa

 

[Mickey1940]

Like I said, I'm going to ignore these points until I translate the novel scans.

Anyway, I'll ask some staff.

@DemonGodMitchAubin @Elizhaa

That's fine, I was just responding to your last comment

 

[ByAsura]

I know. I'm not criticising you for it, or anything, just reaffirming that.

I might be a day or two.

 

[Elizhaa]

I shared similar thoughts with ByAsura.

 

[Mickey1940]

I shared similar thoughts with ByAsura.

NEither of you have succeeded in explaining yourselves

 

[Mickey1940]

bump

 

[ByAsura]

I'll probably have the translations between Friday and Sunday.

My schedule has just been terrible.

 

[ByAsura]

I still disagree, and I think most of the other points are incorrect (though they're not really significant enough to go over on their own), but I couldn't find anything too substantial in ~20 pages of the CBL novel, so I'm just going to concede unless I just happen upon something.

 

[Mickey1940]

So basically due to lack of evidence my points should be valid, no?

 

[ByAsura]

Nobody so far has agreed with this, so I wouldn't go that far.

Maybe ask here

Content Revision Promotion Thread

This thread can be used to link to discussions in the content revision forum regarding changes to verses or profiles, so that they may be seen and evaluated by staff members without the need of contacting them individually. In the event that posting the revision here fails to obtain enough...

vsbattles.com

 

[Mickey1940]

Nobody so far has agreed with this, so I wouldn't go that far.

Maybe ask here

Content Revision Promotion Thread

This thread can be used to link to discussions in the content revision forum regarding changes to verses or profiles, so that they may be seen and evaluated by staff members without the need of contacting them individually. In the event that posting the revision here fails to obtain enough...

vsbattles.com

Everything you provided, I countered with an additional point

Elizhaa said she disagrees with you for the same reasons, which one again I countered your points

I don't know what else I'm supposed to say. Many of my points you did concede to, and the ones you didn't I gave an argument that you basically responded with "I'm gonna get translations to prove you wrong"

After getting translations you still can't prove me wrong

What else do you want me to say

I've been trying to stay respectful since you guys are admins and should know what you're doing, but from my perspective, there's really nothing I can do. Either I keep arguing and you guys just respond with a stonewall "No" which I can't argue with since I'm not an admin and therefore lack the authority to dispute, or I shut up and let this thread die, which is also not exactly a good solution.

 

[ByAsura]

I'm not stonewalling the thread. Hell, I'm actually doing the opposite by (like I said before) not targeting the low hanging fruit. I'm telling you that you need people to actually agree with your thread in order to get it put on the profiles.

It's literally a rule of this wiki, not something I can just expedite just because you 'won' the argument.

I've contacted the only staff who are really interested in the verse, so I'm saying you can use the thread to get some input.

 

[Mickey1940]

I'm not stonewalling the thread. Hell, I'm actually doing the opposite by (like I said before) not targeting the low hanging fruit. I'm telling you that you need people to actually agree with your thread in order to get it put on the profiles.

It's literally a rule of this wiki.

I've contacted the only staff who are really interested in the verse, so I'm saying you can use the thread to get some input.

In order for people to disagree to the thread, they need to successfully convince the other debater to concede by providing additional evidence and arguments

This rule should also apply to staff members

So far, the disagreements in this thread have already been addressed by me, in which neither of the staff members have responded to

Hence my frustration when I'm still told "no"

 

[ByAsura]

I didn't just say 'no', I said get some more input for your thread. Mine and Elizaah's disapproval is not what's stopping this.

If you literally just have 2 staff agree, that's enough. It's how the wiki works.

 

[Mickey1940]

I didn't just say 'no', I said get some more input for your thread. Mine and Elizaah's disapproval is not what's stopping this.

If you literally just have 2 staff agree, that's enough. It's how the wiki works.

I just sent this thread in the thread you sent me. Hopefully more people respond to this

I apologize for the misunderstanding

 

[speedster352]

I guess the upgrade could work as a likely or possibly because of how contentious it is

 

[speedster352]

bump

 

[Syncornize]

I recently finished watching 7DS: Cursed by Light, and I noticed that Diane could push back and blast holes into the Supreme Deity with her Creation magic despite not even using Drole's Dance, as well as take direct blows from and keep up with her alongside the rest of the Sins despite not using Heavy Metal

Even if you say that Gideon was powering her up, and even if you say that the Supreme Deity was holding back, it shouldn't allow her durability and speed to keep up with a High 6B if she's only 7B and weaker than ***** Grayroad, not to mention Supreme Deity's attacks were able to severely injure King, who is High 6B and was also caught in the crossfire

I personally think that Base Diane should be buffed to High 6B in base and higher with Drole's Dance, Heay Metal, and Gideon


Edit: Gowther should also have these buffs due to performing the same feats

apart from Asura's explanations, wouldn't this feat be considered a temporary feat, something like outlier? also there is the problem that in the verse the power levels have been stated and the difference between them 2 is big. I simply mean that an argument with more solid and consistent evidence that is stable in the work would be preferable. in the sequel manga (Four Knights of the Apocalypse) maybe you could find evidence to give substance to an upgrade.
but if that alone is enough for the AP with Gideon and Drole's Dance you can discuss that

 

[Mickey1940]

apart from Asura's explanations, wouldn't this feat be considered a temporary feat, something like outlier? also there is the problem that in the verse the power levels have been stated and the difference between them 2 is big. I simply mean that an argument with more solid and consistent evidence that is stable in the work would be preferable. in the sequel manga (Four Knights of the Apocalypse) maybe you could find evidence to give substance to an upgrade.
but if that alone is enough for the AP with Gideon and Drole's Dance you can discuss that

Those power levels were from a previous point in time. Characters are capable of growing stronger through training. It's entirely possible that Diane and Gowther trained enough to warrant performing those feats between the Demon King's death and the movie

 

[Syncornize]

Those power levels were from a previous point in time. Characters are capable of growing stronger through training. It's entirely possible that Diane and Gowther trained enough to warrant performing those feats between the Demon King's death and the movie

I consider it unlikely. Meliodas in assault mode stated that it would take him several times to reach a level similar to that of the demon king. Especially considering such an exponential increase as this following only this single feat is difficult to consolidate

 

[speedster352]

Bump