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Demon_Lord18

He/Him
990
407
A basic CRT to elevate Chaos to High 3-A level.

There have already been some CRTs to upgrade Chaos to Low 2-C using purgatory. This one will be no different, except for the part that will have nothing to do with creation, but with something else.

Apparently, purgatory is accepted as infinite on the wiki and the CRT trying to downgrade it was debunked by Makai.

1- In chapter 343, Arthur asks Cath what he wanted the power of Chaos for and he says he wanted it so he could destroy everything, since everything that has form will perish. Before, I thought this was a hyperbole because there were no more quotes from High 3-A level, but then I took a look and found others that made me believe that this wasn’t a hyperbole (Of course, this all includes purgatory).

2- Now I will go to the things that made me change my opinion about being a hyperbole. In chapter 332, we are introduced to the Lady of the Lake who, according to Meliodas, has infinite magical power/Mana. The kanji used is the same as the one the king uses in chapter 27 to refer to how much power a person has. When he is explaining to Hawk the difference between not having a weapon, having a simple weapon and a sacred treasure, he gives as an example a lake assuming that someone’s magical power/mana was equal to the lake. The sacred treasure would allow the person to use more of this mana, something that becomes clear when Meliodas takes his sacred treasure. Before, he barely hurt Albion with Liz’s sword and when he got Lostvayne, he started cutting him with aerial cuts. Where am I going with this? It’s very simple, on the wiki the quote from the Lady of the Lake goes only to her vigor, something that is also true, since she has a reserve of infinite magical power but there is no proof of her being able to use it all at once. But, according to our tier system, “Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those that can affect infinite 3D space.”, Chaos created a being with infinite magical power, so I think this fits here. There is another quote in the manga, in chapter 336 Merlin tells Arthur to wake up to the immeasurable power that is within him, and in a databook this is reaffirmed:

" 宣言。アーサーがキャスを体内に吸収して 退治すると、聖剣はアーサーを認めるかの ように、計り知れない魔力に満ちた形に姿 を変えていた。"

“When Arthur absorbs Cass into his body and defeats him, the sacred sword turns into a form filled with immeasurable magical power, as if it recognized Arthur.”

And that's why I think Chaos should be High 3-A
 
An infinite reserve of magic power doesn't mean anything if it can't be proven that Chaos can use it all at once. Such logic has been rejected for other verses in the past, so I don't see why NNT will get a pass here

Disagree
But chaos created the lady of the lake who has infinite magic would that at least suffice?
 
Chaos's statement here is way too vague
Yeah but chaos power has been shown to create and destroy dimensions.
This is, once again, too vague
Could he obtain High 3-A via creation by creating a being with an infinite amount of power?
Creating something with an infinite reserve of magic power can simply be done by also having an infinite reserve of magic power yourself. This isn't High 3-A. It would just be Infinite stamina

My disagreement still stands. And none of this is even mentioning the gargantuan outlier this is
 
Chaos's statement here is way too vague

This is, once again, too vague

Creating something with an infinite reserve of magic power can simply be done by also having an infinite reserve of magic power yourself. This isn't High 3-A. It would just be Infinite stamina

My disagreement still stands. And none of this is even mentioning the gargantuan outlier this is
In addition to what Cath said, when Chaos statements are added, I think it is not beyond logic to accept it.
 
You're free to have that opinion, but mine is different, sorry to say
Something I still don't understand is why this doesn't reach creation, he created something with infinite magical power and to do that he would at least need to use an infinite amount of power
 
1- In chapter 343, Arthur asks Cath what he wanted the power of Chaos for and he says he wanted it so he could destroy everything, since everything that has form will perish. Before, I thought this was a hyperbole because there were no more quotes from High 3-A level, but then I took a look and found others that made me believe that this wasn’t a hyperbole (Of course, this all includes purgatory).
First of all, I don't think "will destroy everything" will get you to the High 3-A tier. There may be many things that are meant by everything here. It may vary depending on the flow of the story. Secondly, as you say, this may just be a Hyperbole expression.
A There is another quote in the manga, in chapter 336 Merlin tells Arthur to wake up to the immeasurable power that is within him, and in a databook this is reaffirmed:

" 宣言。アーサーがキャスを体内に吸収して 退治すると、聖剣はアーサーを認めるかの ように、計り知れない魔力に満ちた形に姿 を変えていた。"

“When Arthur absorbs Cass into his body and defeats him, the sacred sword turns into a form filled with immeasurable magical power, as if it recognized Arthur.”

And that's why I think Chaos should be High 3-A
Just having infinite/immeasurable energy or magic will not scale you to High 3-A tier. From here we can only get infinite stamina for Chaos, which is already an accepted situation. According to Wiki rules, in order to scale to Attack Potential, it must be able to use this energy with a single energy output during battle.
So why do we assume that the lady of the lake with infinite energy mentioned in chapter 332 and the kanji in chapter 27 are the same? I can't say I fully understand this part. However, I don't think the outcome will change much from here.
Finally, I acknowledge here that Chaos created the Lady of the Lake. However, in order to get AP scaling from this creation skill, we need the Time Frame of this creation skill, otherwise we cannot scale this achievement to AP. Also, I don't think Chaos' success in creating the Lady of the Lake scales to physical stats either. Even if we have the Time Frame, we cannot scale to physical statistics.
 
First of all, I don't think "will destroy everything" will get you to the High 3-A tier. There may be many things that are meant by everything here. It may vary depending on the flow of the story. Secondly, as you say, this may just be a Hyperbole expression.
Everything would include purgatory, which is infinite, that's why High 3-A

Just having infinite/immeasurable energy or magic will not scale you to High 3-A tier. From here we can only get infinite stamina for Chaos, which is already an accepted situation. According to Wiki rules, in order to scale to Attack Potential, it must be able to use this energy with a single energy output during battle.
This is just support for Cath's quote not being hyperbole
So why do we assume that the lady of the lake with infinite energy mentioned in chapter 332 and the kanji in chapter 27 are the same? I can't say I fully understand this part. However, I don't think the outcome will change much from here.
The Kanji is literally the same, both are referred to as magical power
Finally, I acknowledge here that Chaos created the Lady of the Lake. However, in order to get AP scaling from this creation skill, we need the Time Frame of this creation skill, otherwise we cannot scale this achievement to AP. Also, I don't think Chaos' success in creating the Lady of the Lake scales to physical stats either. Even if we have the Time Frame, we cannot scale to physical statistics.
There is no need for time, the energy would still be infinite, it would be like taking infinity and dividing it by 2, it would still be infinite, the time in this case would be irrelevant
 
There is no need for time, the energy would still be infinite, it would be like taking infinity and dividing it by 2, it would still be infinite, the time in this case would be irrelevant
No we need it. As I shared above, this is a wiki rule. Also, this character can create something with infinite energy, but in order to scale it to AP, the character must be able to use it in seconds. It is written in the wiki rules that it should have a single energy output and a short duration. If it does not create an infinite space instantly, it means that it can also produce this energy output over a long period of time in battle.
 
A basic CRT to elevate Chaos to High 3-A level.

There have already been some CRTs to upgrade Chaos to Low 2-C using purgatory. This one will be no different, except for the part that will have nothing to do with creation, but with something else.

Apparently, purgatory is accepted as infinite on the wiki and the CRT trying to downgrade it was debunked by Makai.

1- In chapter 343, Arthur asks Cath what he wanted the power of Chaos for and he says he wanted it so he could destroy everything, since everything that has form will perish. Before, I thought this was a hyperbole because there were no more quotes from High 3-A level, but then I took a look and found others that made me believe that this wasn’t a hyperbole (Of course, this all includes purgatory).

2- Now I will go to the things that made me change my opinion about being a hyperbole. In chapter 332, we are introduced to the Lady of the Lake who, according to Meliodas, has infinite magical power/Mana. The kanji used is the same as the one the king uses in chapter 27 to refer to how much power a person has. When he is explaining to Hawk the difference between not having a weapon, having a simple weapon and a sacred treasure, he gives as an example a lake assuming that someone’s magical power/mana was equal to the lake. The sacred treasure would allow the person to use more of this mana, something that becomes clear when Meliodas takes his sacred treasure. Before, he barely hurt Albion with Liz’s sword and when he got Lostvayne, he started cutting him with aerial cuts. Where am I going with this? It’s very simple, on the wiki the quote from the Lady of the Lake goes only to her vigor, something that is also true, since she has a reserve of infinite magical power but there is no proof of her being able to use it all at once. But, according to our tier system, “Characters or objects that demonstrate an infinite amount of energy on a 3D scale, such as creating or destroying infinite mass, or those that can affect infinite 3D space.”, Chaos created a being with infinite magical power, so I think this fits here. There is another quote in the manga, in chapter 336 Merlin tells Arthur to wake up to the immeasurable power that is within him, and in a databook this is reaffirmed:

" 宣言。アーサーがキャスを体内に吸収して 退治すると、聖剣はアーサーを認めるかの ように、計り知れない魔力に満ちた形に姿 を変えていた。"

“When Arthur absorbs Cass into his body and defeats him, the sacred sword turns into a form filled with immeasurable magical power, as if it recognized Arthur.”

And that's why I think Chaos should be High 3-A
It is already accepted in the profiles that Chaos created purgatory, if anyone disagrees with this specific thing, create a crt, because it is already something accepted.

And since it's an infinite place, then the time to do purgatory doesn't matter.

And creating a being with infinite mass seems like a cool support feat for that.

If the argument someone uses is "chaos didn't create purgatory" just tell them to make a crt if you disagree, because it's already accepted.

But I see it just as creation, I don't know if the destroying everything thing is explicit enough.
 
No we need it. As I shared above, this is a wiki rule. Also, this character can create something with infinite energy, but in order to scale it to AP, the character must be able to use it in seconds. It is written in the wiki rules that it should have a single energy output and a short duration. If it does not create an infinite space instantly, it means that it can also produce this energy output over a long period of time in battle.
You are misinterpreting this, to scale up to the full value of creation it needs to occur in a short amount of time because you need to take the total result and divide it by the time it took in seconds, but since the energy released is infinite regardless of time it continues to be infinite.

example: Arthur took 1 days to create Camelot

total result in joules/number of seconds in a day= energy released per second

when energy is infinite this rule does not apply as you would need to divide infinity by seconds, plus I think the default assumption is that something infinite is created instantly
 
It is already accepted in the profiles that Chaos created purgatory, if anyone disagrees with this specific thing, create a crt, because it is already something accepted.
Not really...? If it's directly related, then people are allowed to dispute it. You can't just say "no" to that.

The scans are very iffy too, it just says stuff like "a land of chaos" and "born of chaos and disorder" and somehow that translates to "oh, Chaos created this" despite that not being what's said. The Imgur captions try to explain it, but even then they only say "well Chaos probably created it"
 
It is already accepted in the profiles that Chaos created purgatory, if anyone disagrees with this specific thing, create a crt, because it is already something accepted.

And since it's an infinite place, then the time to do purgatory doesn't matter.

And creating a being with infinite mass seems like a cool support feat for that.

If the argument someone uses is "chaos didn't create purgatory" just tell them to make a crt if you disagree, because it's already accepted.

But I see it just as creation, I don't know if the destroying everything thing is explicit enough.
This really should be resolved
 
You are misinterpreting this, to scale up to the full value of creation it needs to occur in a short amount of time because you need to take the total result and divide it by the time it took in seconds, but since the energy released is infinite regardless of time it continues to be infinite.

example: Arthur took 1 days to create Camelot

total result in joules/number of seconds in a day= energy released per second

when energy is infinite this rule does not apply as you would need to divide infinity by seconds, plus I think the default assumption is that something infinite is created instantly
To give an example of this issue, let's say that Chaos created the Lady of the Lake in 10 years. It takes him 10 years to produce this endless energy with a single outlet. This means that he will not have enough time to extract this skill with a single energy output in a short period of time, such as in battle. I'm not too sure about this issue, so it would be more logical to ask an official. But in my opinion we need a time frame.
If you are using this as a point of support, then I am well within my rights to dispute the idea of Chaos creating Purgatory to begin with
Do we need a time frame for High 3-A Creation feats? I need a admin reply.
 
To give an example of this issue, let's say that Chaos created the Lady of the Lake in 10 years. It takes him 10 years to produce this endless energy with a single outlet. This means that he will not have enough time to extract this skill with a single energy output in a short period of time, such as in battle. I'm not too sure about this issue, so it would be more logical to ask an official. But in my opinion we need a time frame.
As I said before, you take the total value of the feat and divide it by the seconds

Let's assume that in 10 years, we have 1 trillion seconds, you will divide the total value by the time it took, that is, it would still be infinite
 
As I said before, you take the total value of the feat and divide it by the seconds

Let's assume that in 10 years, we have 1 trillion seconds, you will divide the total value by the time it took, that is, it would still be infinite
Yeah you can be right i seem to have misunderstood some things.
 
I more or less understand the logic, but this is a big no IMO. Count me as disagree via Clover's reasons
 
I didn't understand what problem is it. He can create a lake with infinite magic/mana isn't it enough?
Clover's point is that Chaos is not using this infinite supply of energy to create the lake. At least that's what I understood from what he said

He just transfers the infinite supply of energy he has into the lake or something like that, that's all. Which will only go under infinite stamina.
 
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