7-B Brackets Round 22

[Dargoo_Faust]

The monsters he fights are also skilled in combat some of them are like Hecarim, skilled warriors who became more powerful becaue they are now monstrous spirits.

I don't see how that places him within Gintoki's league.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo Because Hecarim is a master of every form of war and nearly every form of armed combat

 

[Rocker1189]

I don't know why being attacked would detonate them, and even then Gintoki can just use his ranged abilities to detonate them from a safe distance at that rate.

Because they are explosive?

 

[Rocker1189]

These are the kinds of things he fights:https://map.leagueoflegends.com/en_US

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Dargoo Because Hecarim is a master of every form of war and nearly every form of armed combat

Can you source that?

Even then Shiroyasha claimed Gintoki has fought a wider variety of enemies from the entire verse.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/hecarim/

"As Hecarim grew to manhood, he mastered every form of combat and war-stratagem with ease. He quickly outstripped his fellow squires in mounted warfare, and the Knight Commander of the Iron Order saw greatness within the young man and recognized a potential successor. But as the years passed and Hecarim won victory after victory from the back of his mighty warhorse, the Knight Commander finally recognized a growing darkness within his lieutenant. Hecarim's thirst for wholesale slaughter and obsessive hunger for glory was eroding his honor and the Knight Commander knew the young knight must never become the master of the Iron Order."

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I don't think that's enough. Dakinis, Yatos and that one another clan in SS Arc are the top combat clans of the universe. Gin took their leader and kept up with them. Obi Wan is the best lightsaber user in the universe and kept up with him while not going all out. Umibouzu is the best Hunter in the universe and they're doing fistfight once in a while. He also fought Utsuro, the most dangerous man in the universe.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Shiro What feats of skill do they have?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Being 'the best in the universe' needs feats to back it up. Without feats that's just an empty title.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Oh, just as a heads-up, while it sounds like I'm arguing for Gintoki I'm actually pretty neutral on this, lol. I was mostly just arguing in Gintoki's favor while I was waiting for Velox/Shiroyasha to get here.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

The three clans serve dark side of the universe for who knows long. Killed all kinds of species across the universe. Obi wan just defeated every single lightsaber user that challenged him or he challenged and never lost ever since, he even challenged an entire planet at one point. Umibouzu traveled and hunted monsters and various species of all kinds across the universe and Utsuro has thousands if not higher amount of experience and fought Umibouzu seemingly in a casual fashion.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Also Gin at this point stomped Batou who is significantly higher than 30 megatons. Change the op.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And how skilled are those people he defeated?

How powerful was the planet he challenged? Challenging a planet of fodder isnt impressive.

Hunting monsters isnt a feat of how skilled someone is in direct combat.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Also Gin at this point stomped Batou who is significantly higher than 30 megatons. Change the op.

Then it needs to be switched to his second key rather than his EoS key

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I wasn't aware he stomps 30 MT characters in this key, sorry.

Would his second key be more within Maokai's ballpark in terms of AP?

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Monsters I mean a parasite who is living for hundreds of years decimating a planet. The planet is full of skilled lightsaber users that looks like Yodas.

Same shit with 2nd key except with more difficulty. Gin=Housen=Kamui shitstomps 1st leader who is much higher than Batou.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Cool, describe any skill feat that they have that puts them in Maokai's skill range

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Cool, describe any skill feat that they have that puts them in Maokai's skill range

Challenging an entire planet's worth of fighters seemed pretty impressive to me.

Naturally an entire population wouldn't be made of fodder and would have a sizeable number of top-tier fighters especially in a verse like Gintama.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Dargoo An unskilled 8-C can solo the current population of earth regardless of how skilled we are. Unless there are some 7-Bs that have skill all he did was fight a planet of fodder

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@Dargoo An unskilled 8-C can solo the current population of earth regardless of how skilled we are. Unless there are some 7-Bs that have skill all he did was fight a planet of fodder

Comparing the population of a planet in a verse where people can shoot beams out of planets by throwing cans at people to the population of the Earth isn't really fair, especially if the feat is presented in the verse as one of immense skill. I could just as easily turn that on Maokai's statements, by the way, claiming he just fought fodder for the time that was presented by Rocker/you.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Maokai does mostly fight fodder yes. Fodder with touch activated death hax but fodder all the same. Maokai has also fought immensely skilled opponents on his level, something i have yet to have confirmation of from Gintoki.

Prove that he didnt fight a planet of fodder

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Deathax he apparently resists, so that's not saying much.

The entire Gintama series has Gintoki fighting people of comparable skill.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Prove the planet he fought was a planet of 7-Bs with comparable skill and not a planet of fodder that he can oneshot

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Prove the planet he fought was a planet of 7-Bs with comparable skill and not a planet of fodder that he can oneshot

It's not either "A planet full of jacked up 7-Bs" or "a planet of fodder".

Like looking at the verse clearly statistically speaking a decent number of them would be able to injure him. The way the statement is played out also makes it sound like it took him effort to perform the feat, which supports a decent number of the fighters being within his range.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Oh so he didnt even fight and beat an entire planet's worth of people he just challenged them

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

tfw you waste 10 minutes discussing a feat from a verse you don't know anything about that apparently didn't even happen

Velox I can't fill in for you forever

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I still feel like Gintoki has had more fights with characters of comparable skill, after looking up his various fights, and his skill is high enough to adapt to and even replicate an opponent's tecniques in the middle of combat, which is something outside the level of what Maokai has shown.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Maokai doesnt have techniques to replicate

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Being able to look at a martial artists once and then be able to practice martial arts is a skill feat immensely above what I've seen from Maokai. It just shows how good his skills are.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Still want to see what the martial artists in Gintama have that puts them above Hecarim skill-wise

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

There's the fact that despite his age, Gin is extremely skileld in hand to hand, not only in katanas but with naginatas, kunai, senbon and explosives, a natural at finding at analyzing battle skills and patterns, finding weaknesses and abusing whatever in the enviroment can be abused or creating plans in seconds.

This all without accouting for the fact that he can fight Utsuro, skillful enough as to fodderize nearly the entire Shinsengumi without any eyesight and fighting Kamui. Kamui is recognized as one of the straight strongest of the Yato, a race of human-like Amantos (Aliens) among the most powerful, being said an army couldn't compare to 4 of them, a battle and killing instinct making them seek the strongest of fighters in the universe even if it's one of their own, with inhate battle instics, skill, flexibility, adaptability, skill, yadda yadda yadda far above humans. So Kamui is pretty much far above a normal Yato, alongside his father Umibozo who is considered the best hunter of the universe and Housou who's called "King of the Yato". Both Umibozo and Kamui were among the people that fought Utsuro, and he could still match and defeat them. He had even barely regenerated his eyes when he blocked a kick from the back from Kamui without looking.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

That's as much as I could find/remember.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Okay, how does any of that compare to Hecarim being a master of all forms of warfare and almost all forms of armed combat with several thousand years of experience and the trait itself being so integral to his entire being that he was mutated into a monster that exists solely for warfare and has been waging a constant war for several thousand years?

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

The fact that we directly see that Gintoki can match the monster in his skill, while all we know or that you have provided for Maokai isn't his skill, but the skill of someone he has fought without any context for said battle.

Is anyone that has clashed with Hecarim as skilled as a super talented, one of a kind warrior that has become a spirit of constant battle and has thousands of years? No. Being able to deal with those opoonents and being as skilled is not the same.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The fact that Mao can 'deal with' an opponent of that skill level means he should have no issue 'dealing with' Gintoki

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Cool. Then he won't get overwhelmed just because of skill advantage. Doesn't change the fact Gintoki has more backing for having the skill advantage.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

The fact that Mao can 'deal with' an opponent of that skill level means he should have no issue 'dealing with' Gintoki

To be fair Gintoki 'deals with' people comparable to him in skill quite often, unless I'm mistaken.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

My whole point is that many of the people that went after Utsuro are top of the class in universe, others are still rather skilled. He still deals with all almost too easily, even managing to combat and fodderize groups while blind. Gintoki can still compete to a higher degree than most.

Being directly comparable to, and not being overwhelmed by, are two different things in my eyes. Especially when Maokai has nothing indicating he matched Hec in skill or didn't survive by abusing any other advantage that wasn't skill, while Gintoki is shown directly fighting matching to some degree.

 

[Rocker1189]

This all does not matter, Maokai is not going into a melee punch out or sword fight with Gintoki he is literally going to be standing back overwhelming him wiith various plants, explosive saplings, giant wooden constructs and massive whirlwinds to keep him off balance. This is why my vote is for maokai, skill is inconsequential in this type of battle.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

I don't see how AoE explosions/energy attacks and various summons don't counter being attacked with plants and saplings that would detonate when hit. Double that one of his weapons would prevent any parts he cuts off from growing back.

I'll count the vote, though.

Maokai - 1 (Rocker)

Gintoki -

@LSir/Shiroyasha You two voting?